Israel 'attacks' Gaza aid fleet

[Just the Facts]

Uh huh. So what is the excuse for killing Jews?

 

[eanassir]

Like to what a poet said: To kill a man in a forest is an unforgivable crime, while killing a complete people may be justified!!

 

[Just the Facts]

The poet is wrong.

 

[earth_as_one]

They've also had the constant barrage of rockets raining down on them for almost ten years, lets not forget about that. Even today Hamas swears to eliminate the Jewish state. Not a good formula for peace.

I don't know the answer, but I'm curious, how does the annual per capita aid to Israel compare to the per capita aid to the Palestinians?

Most Palestinians are civilians, not belligerents. In war and during an occupation (which includes not controlling your borders), civilians have a right to the unimpeded flow of humanitarian aid, without exception. No country including Israel can be an exception to international laws, treaties and conventions regarding war crimes and crimes against humanity. The same standards of justice must apply to all countries.

This ethnic cleaning war is in its 64th year. During that time, the Zionist State of Israel has raised hundreds of villages. They've deliberately bombed hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, churches, police and fire stations, public water and sewage treatment facilities, water towers, electrical power stations, fuel reservoirs, the harbor, the airport... pretty much everything required to run a city. They've deliberately shot civilians fleeing under a white flag of truce. They've rounded up most of the people (including children and babies) in a neighborhood, put them in one building and then shelled the building with high explosives. They've abducted random civilians including children and held them at gun point as they advanced on enemy positions. Forced civilians including children to enter buildings to set off booby traps. They abducted civilians and forced them at gunpoint into pits surrounded by razor wire bound in painful stress positions in front of tanks and artillery as they shelled the surrounding neighborhood. For over three years now, they've limited the amount of humanitarian aid including basic foods and medicines to the point where malnutrition is causing serious health problems including death. At times the level of aid entering Gaza has come to a complete halt for weeks at a time.

The Zionist State of Israel has pretty much crossed every line of human decency. They should be held accountable for their actions, not getting unshakable support, economic and military aid.

US Aid to Israel

U.S. Military Aid and the Israel/Palestine Conflict

The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2009.

Daily U.S. Military Aid to Israel
and the Palestinians, FY2009​

“Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”
- John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"
US Aid to Israel and the Palestinians

US Debt

 

[Goober]

Most Palestinians are civilians, not belligerents. In war and during an occupation (which includes not controlling your borders), civilians have a right to the unimpeded flow of humanitarian aid, without exception. No country including Israel can be an exception to international laws, treaties and conventions regarding war crimes and crimes against humanity. The same standards of justice must apply to all countries.

This ethnic cleaning war is in its 64th year. During that time, the Zionist State of Israel has raised hundreds of villages. They've deliberately bombed hospitals, schools, universities, mosques, churches, police and fire stations, public water and sewage treatment facilities, water towers, electrical power stations, fuel reservoirs, the harbor, the airport... pretty much everything required to run a city. They've deliberately shot civilians fleeing under a white flag of truce. They've rounded up most of the people (including children and babies) in a neighborhood, put them in one building and then shelled the building with high explosives. They've abducted random civilians including children and held them at gun point as they advanced on enemy positions. Forced civilians including children to enter buildings to set off booby traps. They abducted civilians and forced them at gunpoint into pits surrounded by razor wire bound in painful stress positions in front of tanks and artillery as they shelled the surrounding neighborhood. For over three years now, they've limited the amount of humanitarian aid including basic foods and medicines to the point where malnutrition is causing serious health problems including death. At times the level of aid entering Gaza has come to a complete halt for weeks at a time.

The Zionist State of Israel has pretty much crossed every line of human decency. They should be held accountable for their actions, not getting unshakable support, economic and military aid.

US Aid to Israel

U.S. Military Aid and the Israel/Palestine Conflict

The U.S. is providing Israel with at least $7.0 million each day* in military aid and is giving the Palestinians $0** in military aid during Fiscal Year 2009.

Daily U.S. Military Aid to Israel
and the Palestinians, FY2009​

“Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140 billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea or Spain.”
- John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt
"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"
US Aid to Israel and the Palestinians

US Debt

EAO

How were paint guns a lethal threat to the persons on the ships that were boarded???????

 

[earth_as_one]

Goober,

If the Israelis weren't armed with lethal weapons, then how did all those people wind up dead??????

 

[Just the Facts]

Goober,

If the Israelis weren't armed with lethal weapons, then how did all those people wind up dead??????

lol gosh gee let's speculate.
There certainly are no answers to that question.

I like soup!!

 

[eanassir]

lol gosh gee let's speculate.
There certainly are no answers to that question.

I like soup!!

These are your facts, because you are Just the Facts.

 

[ironsides]

Goober,

If the Israelis weren't armed with lethal weapons, then how did all those people wind up dead??????

The Israeli commando is a lethal weapon.

 

[CUBert]

Provoked with Paint Guns - then they had the literal crap kicked out of them along with shooting - from the people on the boat-

I do not now why the Israeli's ever wanted to practice self preservation - They should have stood up and become Martyrs - Oh Oh - wrong religion.

You don't really seem very bright when you run into a thread spewing off arguments that have already been destroyed. Try reading before you post , or don't post at all.

 

[earth_as_one]

The Israeli commandos did not inflict these injuries with paintball guns.

...
Nine Turkish men on board the Mavi Marmara were shot a total of 30 times and five were killed by gunshot wounds to the head, according to the vice-chairman of the Turkish council of forensic medicine, which carried out the autopsies for the Turkish ministry of justice today.
The results revealed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back. A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has US citizenship, was shot five times from less that 45cm, in the face, in the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back. Two other men were shot four times, and five of the victims were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, said Yalcin Buyuk, vice-chairman of the council of forensic medicine....


Gaza flotilla activists were shot in head at close range | World news | The Guardian

A Gaza Diary
2001
A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges

 

[Just the Facts]

These are your facts, because you are Just the Facts.

lol on page eighty freakin seven you're asking questions like that. What would I do without you eao, what would I do without you. lol

Just for the record, that the IDF soldiers had sidearms is not controversial. No one has ever disputed it. Maybe go start at page 1 again lol.

The point was that they didn't board with their lethal weapons at the ready. In fact, the "humanitarians" had easier access to the Israeli weapons than the first few soldiers to land did, who were taken by surprise.

The real question to ask, and the one YOU WOULD be asking if you were as fair and impartial as you like to portray yourself as, is if the Israeli's came down shooting at "humanitarians" armed only with candy floss and wheelchair batteries, how did they get themselves pulverized by steel rods and thrown over the railing? How did they get themselves subdued and led battered and dazed below decks? How did they get themselves shot? Huh? How?

:lol:

Edit: and, oh yeah, I like soup!

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Hey, the big men are working on a "peace" process while they kill each other. Shouldn't they at least agree to an armistice first? Oh no, those Jews and Arans are right back at talking peace. Wow.

And Obama the one termer-rube gives them the time of day. Despite a tanking economy.

 

[Colpy]

The Israeli commandos did not inflict these injuries with paintball guns.




A Gaza Diary
2001
A Gaza Diary - by Chris Hedges

Oh, don't be silly. Nobody disputes that the Israelis were carrying sidearms....

Now, let me explain something to you......sidearms are defensive weapons. They are not very powerful, they are hard to learn to use effectively, they are absolutely not intended for any offensive role.....the only good thing about them is their portability, which means they are easy to carry, and therefore they will be there when an unexpected assault occurs.

NOBODY goes on the offense with sidearms, not if they have a choice....full stop.

Had the Israelis been planning to kill the people aboard ship, they would have landed on the deck armed with Galils, M 16s, shotguns, or at least MP 5s. THEN NONE OF THE ISRAELIS WOULD HAVE BEEN HURT. The very fact the Israelis took casualties proves their good intentions, and proves they landed with non-lethal weapons in hand, defensive sidearms holstered........

 

[CUBert]

What casualties did the Israeli's take and how does that equate to having good intentions? you're blindly following Israel now with no good arguments., you must be jewish to be so dedicated to ignorantly defending the state, or vehemently anti-muslim .

 

[Colpy]

What casualties did the Israeli's take and how does that equate to having good intentions? you're blindly following Israel now with no good arguments., you must be jewish to be so dedicated to ignorantly defending the state, or vehemently anti-muslim .

Indications of the Islamist's intention to attack Israeli commandoes:

C:The IHH invited fellow Islamists from across the Arab world. Several of them made speeches against Israel on board. Then the head of the IHH, Bulent Yildirim, turned up the rhetoric:

Written Translation: We’re going to defeat the Israeli commandos –we’re declaring it now. If you bring your soldiers here, we will throw you off the ship and you’ll be humiliated in front of the whole world.

GE: Certain mistakes were made by the Israeli armed forces. Both by the intelligence and by the commandoes of the navy. There was an underestimation of the potential resistance of this ship.

C: On the Mavi Marmara that night, at least one man openly boasted that he’d be prepared to die as a shaheed – a martyr – fighting the Israelis.

Shaheed: If the Israelis dare and try to fight us, we’re going to give them a really good fight. But if I die as a shaheed, I just want to tell my children, my wife I love them a lot, their father died for a really good cause.

C: Late that night it was clear to the crew of the ship that a core group of IHH organisers had taken control of the Mavi Marmara. Crew members later described the scene to the Israelis.

WebCite query result

Take a look, it is quite enlightening.......

BTW, seven Israeli were injured....one stabbed and thrown over the rail to another deck, 20 feet below..........other wounded are shown on the protester's smuggled video, being held, and aided, by the non-Islamist protesters on board.

One again, had the Israelis boarded with mayhem in mind, THERE WOULD BE NO WOUNDED ISRAELIS.

 

[eanassir]

lol on page eighty freakin seven you're asking questions like that. What would I do without you eao, what would I do without you. lol

Just for the record, that the IDF soldiers had sidearms is not controversial. No one has ever disputed it. Maybe go start at page 1 again lol.

The point was that they didn't board with their lethal weapons at the ready. In fact, the "humanitarians" had easier access to the Israeli weapons than the first few soldiers to land did, who were taken by surprise.

The real question to ask, and the one YOU WOULD be asking if you were as fair and impartial as you like to portray yourself as, is if the Israeli's came down shooting at "humanitarians" armed only with candy floss and wheelchair batteries, how did they get themselves pulverized by steel rods and thrown over the railing? How did they get themselves subdued and led battered and dazed below decks? How did they get themselves shot? Huh? How?

:lol:

Edit: and, oh yeah, I like soup!

The Israeli act as a whole and from the start: the Israeli act is the trnsgression and evil.

 

[Just the Facts]

The Israeli act as a whole and from the start: the Israeli act is the trnsgression and evil.

O, well, why didn't you say so. That obviously changes everything. I'm sure to switch side now! lol

 

[earth_as_one]

The Israeli act as a whole and from the start: the Israeli act is the trnsgression and evil.

I disagree. I think Israelis have many different viewpoints. Not all Israelis agree with their government or the injustice and oppression suffered by Palestinians.

I follow the activities of several non-violent protester groups fighting to liberate Palestinians. A good number of these people are Israelis and Jews.

ZCommunications | International Solidarity Movement by George Rishmawi | ZNet Article

In November 2002, two of the founders of the International Solidarity Movement toured North America to build support for the ISM (International Solidarity Movement | Nonviolence. Justice. Freedom.). Here is part of the talk they gave in Toronto on November 20, 2002.

the second speaker...

Neta Golan:

My name is Neta Golan. I was born in Tel Aviv. My childhood was scary, and simple. There were good guys and bad guys. We were the good guys. The bad guys… could be anyone, but they were mostly Arabs. Now I'm a 3rd generation Israeli: my grandmother was born in what was still called Palestine. My mother was born in 1948. And yet, I grew up in the shadow of the holocaust. It was always my reference point, for everything.

As a child, I met Palestinians. They were there, working in construction or sanitation. But there was never a chance to meet as equals. Instead there were fears, being fed by the media, by what we learned in school. I learned always that we were defending ourselves from people who wanted to kill us.

It wasn't until I was 15 years old that I learned of the occupation. It was during the first intifada, because before the first intifada Palestinians, the occupation, simply didn't exist to us. The first intifada made it impossible for Israelis to ignore Palestinians. But I was raised on Jewish history, a history of oppression, dispossession, suffering ethnic cleansing, of being forced out of community after community. Could we really be doing these things to another people?

I couldn't believe it because I was a part of the consensus opinion in Israel, that we are morally superior. They are violent. We have purity of arms. If we do kill a civilian or an innocent, it's by mistake. Even if these mistakes happen every single day. I didn't believe it until I saw it with my own eyes. I refused to believe that a soldier would open fire on an innocent child, but I saw it. Unfortunately in Nablus where I live, I see it too often...

the rest here:
ZCommunications | International Solidarity Movement by George Rishmawi | ZNet Article

Many Jews and Israelis have risked their lives to non-violently fight for Palestinian freedom and justice. Specific Israelis and Jews have done more for the Palestinian cause than most Arabs and Muslims.

I recommend you learn about some of these people who fight non-violently to liberate Palestinians:

BIL’IN: Arrest of international and Israeli activists, journalist wounded and dozens of cases of teargas inhalation 20Aug10

YouTube - Bilin Weekly Demo 20-08-2010 By haithmkatib@gmail.com

 

[Colpy]

I disagree. I think Israelis have many different viewpoints. Not all Israelis agree with their government or the injustice and oppression suffered by Palestinians.

I follow the activities of several non-violent protester groups fighting to liberate Palestinians. A good number of these people are Israelis and Jews.

http://www.zcommunications.org/international-solidarity-movement-by-george-rishmawi

There certainly are Israeli and Jewish groups dedicated to the creation of a peaceful ME. None however, that are sane are interested in the right of return and the destruction of the Jewish state............an outcome you were supporting on another thread just today.

It used to be Labour was the place for the Israeli peacenik..............but the Palestinians, both Fatah in the day of Arafat, and now Hamas have spat in the face of the Israeli left..........

The ever-growing feeling in Israel is that there is no "partner for peace" on the Palestinian side, and Israeli gov'ts slip further to the intransigent right..........the Palestinians have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory twice in the last ten years......their chance has passed. No it will be war never-ending, a low intensity conflict that will solve nothing, create nothing, develop nothing except increasing hatred.

They missed their chance.