Islam – The enemy within itself-

barney

Electoral Member
Aug 1, 2007
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If an individual is not a Canadian citizen, deportation should take exactly the amount of time required to establish that fact, get an escourt, drive the SOB to an airport and put him on a plane.

Why let him in the country in the first place then? (Rhetorical.)

There implications for political refugees who may face death if they are deported back. I know you aren't referring to cases like that but it's the implications of changes to this area would have for more legitimate cases. Another kind of situation would be one where the new, more "flexible" allowed the government in power to easily deport someone who represented a political ideology that ran contrary to that of the government's (or interested parties it represented).

The law changed in the right way can lead to more efficiency and "justice." Change it the wrong way and you could unleash a ****storm.

ONLY Canadian citizens have a right to be here.

And what gives us that right exactly? (I'm assuming you're talking about the right to occupy this territory exclusively here.)

This is a little over the edge, Jack........
Now, having said that, I believe Muslims that wish to stay in the west need to understand and accept basic western principles.....gender equality, the rule of secular law over religious law, etc. If they do not wish to accept...indeed adopt, western culture....fire 'em the **** out before they become citizens.

Those aren't exclusively western principles. Hell, some of those aren't even western principles; ever stopped to notice that God actually has a pretty prominent place in these western "secular" states (see our Constitution--what do you think legitimizes this country's head of state?).

Another thing is, there's a difference between age-old cultural traditions and a resurgence of extremist Islam in the past decades. Once you have a lot of people of similar background together, the two sometimes overlap when meddlesome Mullahs start dicking around in the lives of ignorant, highly conservative Muslims.

A "moderate" Muslim is an educated person just like you who happens to follow Islam.

In a nutshell, if your wife is wearing a burqa, you don't belong in Canada.

Full stop.

LOL Well thanks for clearing that one up.

(I'll be honest: I've thought that at one time or another but just like the deportation thing, it's complicated because who decides what is culturally-acceptable and what isn't and just how far can the state legitimately delve into people's personal lives before it becomes too invasive?)

And not to forget the immortal words of George Dubbya when invading the Muslim countries of Iraq and Afghanistan that this was a "crusade" - a continuation of a thousand odd years of war between Christians and Muslims.

I wouldn't read too much into that if I were you; I personally think his spin doc was on acid half the time.

Nuke um all!

Yeah baby!!! Nuke 'em into the Stone Age...oh wait. ;)

Pakistan backed and still do the Taliban and other Terror org because of India

Pakistanis don't support the Taliban. The have some clout in some areas of the government and they are difficult as hell to get rid of but that doesn't mean the population wouldn't very much like to put all this bs behind them (as if being dirt poor isn't bad enough).

The West is not the root cause of all their problems - They are.

...Uh huh. Please re-read the history of the Middle East over the last century-and-a-half. The "West" isn't the cause of all the problems but it certainly gets the lion's share.


There is a serious problem with the intolerance inherent in the Muslim religion.........Christianity is, in its highest form, a religion of choice between good and evil for the individual.........Islam means "submission".....forced if not voluntary.

That is the essence of the two conflicting philosophies.

The problem is not with the religion but how it is interpreted. Until less than a century ago, Christianity was just as intolerant. When people's standard of living increases over numerous generations, they cease to be duped by ridiculous interpretations of their faith. Many of the Muslims of which you speak are bloody poor and the conservatism that accompanies that slows things down; add to that religious leaders spreading hateful ideas among the ignorant and a highly racists majority and there you have your actual problem.

The origins of Islam and Christianity are the same, as is the philosophy behind them. At a spiritual level, both are benevolent (rarely violent and only in circumstances where no avenue is available). Once they became organized religions they became 'enforceable' according to the dominant interpretation of the time.

Why? I chose not to pick sides because most religious and political "sides" are wrong. This probably stems from the fact that we live in the Matrix.

So what you're saying you just walked off to take a piss while Laurence Fishburne sat there awkwardly with the two pills? :D
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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So what you're saying you just walked off to take a piss while Laurence Fishburne sat there awkwardly with the two pills? :D
Actually I have been living outside the Matrix since 1972 so I didn't need to choose a pill. ;-) I'm just here to mess with the Matrix.
 

Spade

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Nov 18, 2008
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Actually I have been living outside the Matrix since 1972 so I didn't need to choose a pill. ;-) I'm just here to mess with the Matrix.

I remember MCMLXXII. Wasn't that the year Richard Nixon's administration emphasized Vietnamization as a way out of a protracted unpopular foreign war? Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose!
 

barney

Electoral Member
Aug 1, 2007
336
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Actually I have been living outside the Matrix since 1972 so I didn't need to choose a pill. ;-) I'm just here to mess with the Matrix.

Ah I see. I choked on the pill early in life, got mistaken for dead, accidentally ejected from the system, was retrieved and then re-inserted into it. So here I am; unplugged yet still very much jacked-in....so to speak. ;)

I remember MCMLXXII. Wasn't that the year Richard Nixon's administration emphasized Vietnamization as a way out of a protracted unpopular foreign war? Plus ça change plus c'est la même chose!

More of the same? Not quite: Vietnam was to rid SE Asia of the pest of populist independent government, thus preventing it from spreading. The point was to destroy the country and the US did just that. Iraq is about occupation and control over the worlds most important source of oil.

The mentality hasn't changed though.
 

Colpy

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More of the same? Not quite: Vietnam was to rid SE Asia of the pest of populist independent government, thus preventing it from spreading. The point was to destroy the country and the US did just that. Iraq is about occupation and control over the worlds most important source of oil.

The mentality hasn't changed though.

You need to do a little research....Vietnam was the result of a number of factors, most importantly the American need to appear to be the best friend of France, in an attempt to influence popular opinion in that country away from the hard left, which had gained respect by way of doing the lion's share of the resistence work against the Nazis....so the Yanks supported France's ambition to regain the colony it lost to the Japanese....in addition, you need to remember the climate of the late 40s and the 50s.....double-crossed by Stalin, America was incredibly paranoid about the "communist threat", and it didn't help that Ho Chi Minh had been to Moscow. Mind you, Ho had been America's best buddy, cultivated, supplied and trained as the best resistance fighter against the Japanese.........encouraged.....

Ah well.

The unfortunate thing was FDR had been rabidly anti-colonialist, but he died in April of 1945, leaving a gobsmacked Truman in charge.........

The point was certainly NOT to destroy the country. It was first to support France, and secondly to forestall a communist takeover. Both the incorrect policy, but neither has wrong-headed as you would have it.
 

SirJosephPorter

Time Out
Nov 7, 2008
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But we can extend this even further. Let's suppose you round up the local Hispanics at gun point, force them to learn your language and maybe kill some of the more assertive among them in the process, and then invite all your family over. Then what are the obligations of the children of these Hispanics? Should they learn your children's language once they've been made a majority by force, or do they acknowledge the wrongs of history and try to learn the local language even if it is the minority one seeing that it was forced into minority status by the once minority now turned majority?

Let's not forget that town has a history too.

Machjo, interestingly a similar situation is described in the film ‘Gandhi’. A Hindu man has just killed a Muslim boy (in a Hindu Muslim riot) and is very remorseful. He confesses to Gandhi.

Gandhi tells him the penance. He said to him, find a Muslim boy who is an orphan, adopt him. Then raise him to be a Muslim, learning Urdu language, embracing Muslim culture etc. The idea here was that it will make him appreciate a different culture and different religion (i.e. Islam).
 

Goober

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Terrorist mastermind given life sentence

Judge hands down stiffest punishment imposed to date under Canada's antiterrorism laws against Zakaria Amara for plot to bomb Toronto

Terrorist mastermind given life sentence - The Globe and Mail

Many commented from the Islamic community stating that this was overblown - no pun -

It is time for the Community to rid themselves of these jihadists and if so contact the Police - and we do see that happening - But why did it take so long -

How would Canadians have reacted if this terrorist bombing was successful - One wanted the bombs to detonate at 9 am - with bits of metal mixed in to cause the maimum amount of casualities.

But some Muslims turn a blind eye and by doing so they are legally complicit - failing to take action when innocents are killed in my opinion makes you legally complicit in their murder-

Do Canadians have to do better at understanding the differing Muslim Communities - Yes - And that is a major undertaking - you have the Sunni - Shia along with other small sects - the cultural differences as well - and in todays economy it is very difficult for anyone and in particular a new Canadian to move forward in order to provide a decent life for their family.
 

Goober

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It sure took Harper and the gang long enough to take action - Fukin dummies cant tell shzt from shinola - but hang a minister for aprroving funds for a Gay Pride Parade in TO -

Having a number of friends in the Somalia community they strongly condemn this group, its action and the targeting of Somali youth to be used as fodder.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ottawa-blacklists-somali-militant-group/article1492854/

Ottawa blacklists Somali militant group

Ottawa has opened a new front in its global conflict with Islamic extremism by joining the attack on al-Shabab, an al-Qaeda-affiliated terrorist group in East Africa that draws young recruits and support from Canada and around the world.

Leading an Islamist insurgency in Somalia, al-Shabab – literally “the youth” -- uses the Internet to draw young recruits from abroad even as it applies to medieval punishments to alleged infidels at home. The militants' frequent use of suicide bombers and their draconian application of Sharia law have led to frequent comparisons with the Taliban in Afghanistan.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Two things Goob: 1. this doesn't sound much different than Israel bashing and 2. Somalia has no government so how can they have an insurgency? Sounds like more US propaganda to me. By the way, Canada, US, Britain and all other countries recruit their fighting forces from their youth. The only difference is we don't use suicide bombers, but then, when you have ballistic missiles and flying bombers, who needs people to carry them into crowded places. All we have to is drop them out of the sky. Much more efficient but less personal.
 

Machjo

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Machjo, interestingly a similar situation is described in the film ‘Gandhi’. A Hindu man has just killed a Muslim boy (in a Hindu Muslim riot) and is very remorseful. He confesses to Gandhi.

Gandhi tells him the penance. He said to him, find a Muslim boy who is an orphan, adopt him. Then raise him to be a Muslim, learning Urdu language, embracing Muslim culture etc. The idea here was that it will make him appreciate a different culture and different religion (i.e. Islam).

Personally, I think every child should be exposed at least to some degree to the Bible, the Gospel, the Qur'an and Ahadith, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tripitakas, the Zend Avesta, etc.

Considering the considerable influence all of these books have had on human civilization and its development, none can truly consider himself educated without having read at least some passages of each of these books.
 

taxslave

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Re the OP. The same could be said for the major christian religions. Their extremest, hypocritical leadership turns off most people with an IQ higher than junior bushes.
 

Goober

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Personally, I think every child should be exposed at least to some degree to the Bible, the Gospel, the Qur'an and Ahadith, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tripitakas, the Zend Avesta, etc.

Considering the considerable influence all of these books have had on human civilization and its development, none can truly consider himself educated without having read at least some passages of each of these books.

Machjo

Interestingly enough that same idea has been brought forward by a number of people - Myself I agree - Lack of clear understanding results in differences when in fact none are really there. The commonality that is shared between, Judaism, Christianity and Muslim have many similarities.
 

Goober

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Personally, I think every child should be exposed at least to some degree to the Bible, the Gospel, the Qur'an and Ahadith, the Bhagavad Gita, the Tripitakas, the Zend Avesta, etc.

Considering the considerable influence all of these books have had on human civilization and its development, none can truly consider himself educated without having read at least some passages of each of these books.

Machjo

I have found that people do not read or even understand what I post because they are locked into a basic belief - Some may say that I am Pro Israeli - I am - I am also against terror groups - I am against the teaching of hate and the indoctrination of youth that we see in many Arab countries.

I have a number of Muslim friends that due to financial situations I have helped out - looking for and finding work - giving money - and on it goes - I only say this because I feel that it needs to be mentioned -

The friends, Muslim do not agree with these terrorists - they state clearly that this goes against Islam - and I agree - And i have talked to them for years - so i would know - As I have said to them on our many discussions - man sticking his hands into what is pretty clear screws it up and they agree - each and every one agrees-

The Torah, Bible, Quaran is not a box to place people in - it is a guide to living and helping others -Does not matter what religion you look at some fanatic will always find something so that they can propagate hate.

Same applies to the one eyed wonders that are stuck on slamming Israel and the West for every God Dammed thing that goes wrong in the world -

Just a bunch of fanatical losers that cannot see. I almost said past their nose but they cannot even see their nose.

Do you understand what I mean?