If now you see a miracle, will you believe?
- Thread starter eanassir
- Start date
People will believe some of of the stupidest **** imaginable. Don't think so? Talk to a Mormon sometime.
A beast from the earth speaking to them
(And when the word [of punishment] was pronounced against them, We brought for them a beast from the earth, which spoke to them that people had not believed [before] in Our signs.)
The above is the explanation of the Quran 27: 82
{وَإِذَا وَقَعَ الْقَوْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ أَخْرَجْنَا لَهُمْ دَابَّةً مِّنَ الْأَرْضِ تُكَلِّمُهُمْ أَنَّ النَّاسَ كَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا لَا يُوقِنُونَ} (82) سورة النمل
(And when the word [of punishment] was pronounced against them, We brought for them a beast from the earth, which spoke to them that people had not believed [before] in Our signs.)
The above is the explanation of the Quran 27: 82
{وَإِذَا وَقَعَ الْقَوْلُ عَلَيْهِمْ أَخْرَجْنَا لَهُمْ دَابَّةً مِّنَ الْأَرْضِ تُكَلِّمُهُمْ أَنَّ النَّاسَ كَانُوا بِآيَاتِنَا لَا يُوقِنُونَ} (82) سورة النمل
Do know what will be the ultimate miracle of all time? When groups of people stop claiming their one human elitist has all the answers.
Who specifies what a miracle is? If a person goes to the grave as a non-believer then being resurrected would seem to be something that they could latch onto as being the 'miracle' that resulted in that person becoming a believer. I'm already a believer and no miracle, prayer is part of our 'instructions'.
Say a baby gets swept up by a twister and is found alive some distance away., I would call that an act of God, but unless everyone was saved from that storm it would seem to be 'random'.
So far there is a list of 'miracles' that remains unfulfilled, ie return. Is that one requirement of a miracle?
Say a baby gets swept up by a twister and is found alive some distance away., I would call that an act of God, but unless everyone was saved from that storm it would seem to be 'random'.
because one has completed all the given tasks.
So far there is a list of 'miracles' that remains unfulfilled, ie return. Is that one requirement of a miracle?
Tell you what, the day that my doggies or cats start talking to me.........I'll get back to you with my answer. :smile:
I have had conversations with bears. They are quite attentive and curious but they did not tell me about God, Allah, Mohammed or the Qur'an. They told me a completely different story, but none the less, it was miraculous. They told m about the Great Spirit, the Creator and the Earth Mother and how we have forsaken our true spiritual nature in favour of man made religions based on fictitious gods. I trust bears but not priests, ministers or imams.
I've found that deer are quite attentive too, Cliffy. We have them wandering through the yard most of the year and if I happen to be out when they come by, I always stop and chat with them. Love the way their ears poke forward as if trying to catch every word. Oh, and squirrels also seem to like the human voice though they don't have a very long attention span especially if you don't have some seeds for them. :smile:
That's no miracle, MHz........ my guys already eat grass together when I take them outside - roughage, you know. :smile:
Suppose an animal spoke to you this way: "Mohammed is a false prophet, you must accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour or you will lose." Would that cause you to abandon Islam and become a Christian? I've little doubt your reaction would be, that can't happen, because that's a false claim. I'd agree that's a false claim, and I'd argue on exactly the same basis that your example in blue there is also a false claim, so no, I wouldn't accept that claim from an animal any more than I accept it from you. I'd need something a little more dramatic than that. If the only witness to the supposed miracle was me, that's reason enough by itself to reject the claim that a miracle happened, human perception is too easy to fool. I'd need something with lots of witnesses, all of whom agree precisely on what happened, and it's objectively verifiable. For instance, a crow flies in to a convention of physicists and announces that on a certain date and time the speed of light will be increased by one part in a thousand, and subsequent laboratory testing proves that it did. That I might buy.
I am not all filled with religious fervor however, if you look at all the religions and the
various religions Muslim, Jewish, and Christian there is some connections that do
exist. All claim to be the children of Abraham, to start with. The Arabs and the
Israelis are for all intent and purposes cousins. and the Christians have the same
God as the other two minus Jesus.
It should be pointed out the number two prophet of the Muslims is Christ, that the
Jewish people ignore.
As for miracles, miracles are marvels of nature and how they come about or why is
not the issue, they just happen in my view. I am not an atheist though I am not much
of a fervent believer either. The reason for me is that Christ, was a revolutionary and
he did exist, despite the fact he might have been the son of God is not the point. The
fact is he had some great advice and some serious teachings that if people did what
he pointed out things would be a lot better.
The problem is mankind over the last two thousand year warped, twisted and in fact
prostituted the religion for money and power. The four books of the Bible demonstrate
that. Four leaders were fighting for control of the faith and the stories leave more
questions than answers, and to appease the faithful and preserve the church itself they
admitted the four books of the Bible and left out nearly two dozen others like the writings
of Timothy, and Mary, the girlfriend of Christ.
There are miracles in nature all around us, there are things that happen by chance and
there is certainly the unexplained, but are the miracles? Perhaps to those who benefit
they are, but I don't know for sure myself. The problem is with miracles, is you have to
have unquestionable faith, not reason, or science. I don't go by events of faith alone, or
very much faith at all. I still believe those who are claiming a miracle to be true should be
able to do so using reason and science as well.
various religions Muslim, Jewish, and Christian there is some connections that do
exist. All claim to be the children of Abraham, to start with. The Arabs and the
Israelis are for all intent and purposes cousins. and the Christians have the same
God as the other two minus Jesus.
It should be pointed out the number two prophet of the Muslims is Christ, that the
Jewish people ignore.
As for miracles, miracles are marvels of nature and how they come about or why is
not the issue, they just happen in my view. I am not an atheist though I am not much
of a fervent believer either. The reason for me is that Christ, was a revolutionary and
he did exist, despite the fact he might have been the son of God is not the point. The
fact is he had some great advice and some serious teachings that if people did what
he pointed out things would be a lot better.
The problem is mankind over the last two thousand year warped, twisted and in fact
prostituted the religion for money and power. The four books of the Bible demonstrate
that. Four leaders were fighting for control of the faith and the stories leave more
questions than answers, and to appease the faithful and preserve the church itself they
admitted the four books of the Bible and left out nearly two dozen others like the writings
of Timothy, and Mary, the girlfriend of Christ.
There are miracles in nature all around us, there are things that happen by chance and
there is certainly the unexplained, but are the miracles? Perhaps to those who benefit
they are, but I don't know for sure myself. The problem is with miracles, is you have to
have unquestionable faith, not reason, or science. I don't go by events of faith alone, or
very much faith at all. I still believe those who are claiming a miracle to be true should be
able to do so using reason and science as well.
eanassir is just trying to legitimatize the Muslim religion on the back of Christianity. It's the oldest communication trick in the book. Keep comparing something bad to something a lot of people see as good and spin the yarns.
It's like making a purse out of a sow's ear !!
In regards to Death, that's a bit of a stretch and/or exaggeration.
Believe what?
Say there was a Miracle (quite subjective) would you believe it came from Christianity, Muslim or Jewish faiths? How would you know?
For me, it would depend on the situation that occurred. To me, it would have to defy any logical explanations.... second, it'd have to fit into something that related to one or more specific religion for me to believe that specific religion's beliefs were correct.
Since we're just speculating on hypotheticals, I'd need to know more specifics of a particular miracle to say one way or another.
Why should anybody be restricted to only 2-3 lines?
Your original post wasn't 2-3 lines and this isn't a particular topic you can easily answer in just 2-3 lines.... unless you don't want serious responses.
Wait, so your miracle example would be a talking animal speaking scripture?
If that's the case, I might chalk that up to my LSD flashback I've been expecting since 2004...... or it could be trained to do that, or it might have evolved to speak, or it might be some religious person's parrot.
It'd depend on the context and exactly what occurred for me to determine if it was a "Miracle" and was related to a specific religion.
And on the flip side, Christianity has been trying to legitimize itself on the back of the Greek Mythologies for centuries.
Tell me where Angels, Gods in the Clouds, Evil people under ground, Halos, etc. all came from..... among other things.
Let's all face facts shall we?
All religions are just rip-offs of all the other religions that came before them that the new religions now call Myths and Fantasies.
Well I wasn't arguing the merits of religion.
But the one thing you can say about Christianity as compared to the Muslims, is that it has come into the 21 century and it has produced some of the best countries in the world. Ones that everybody ( a lot anyways) want to immigrate to.
Here is my earlier post.