Human foetus feels no pain before 24 weeks

[talloola]

If a woman is have a child agianst her will....yes.

If a woman is to have a child that threatens her life...yes.

If a woman is to have a child born wiithout a brain...yes.

If a woman is to have a child that will be healthy but not wanted because it's inconvienent....no.

Abortion is not a form of birth control.

you don't actually care much for the embryo/fetus, you could murder it one day, but say, save it the next.
by your definition, the deed changed, but the embryo/fetus hasn't.

born without a brain????????????????, well, I guess that's happened many times it seems.

If I actually believed that having an abortion was murder, then I could never allow
an abortion at all, under any circumstances, because I could never agree with murder.

 

[karrie]

born without a brain????????????????, well, I guess that's happened many times it seems.

I have met two women who've gone through it. Neither had abortions for it, but, I don't think I'd have criticised them if they had.

 

[talloola]

I have met two women who've gone through it. Neither had abortions for it, but, I don't think I'd have criticised them if they had.

I have not heard of such a thing, what happens to a newborn, born without a brain. Is it stillborn? or?

 

[karrie]

I have not heard of such a thing, what happens to a newborn, born without a brain. Is it stillborn? or?

both that I've known have had brain stems, but not actual brains, so, there were heart beats, breathing, but nothing else like the ability to eat, etc. So, for both newborns it was a matter of hours and then they were gone.

 

[talloola]

both that I've known have had brain stems, but not actual brains, so, there were heart beats, breathing, but nothing else like the ability to eat, etc. So, for both newborns it was a matter of hours and then they were gone.

that is so sad. At what stage of development do they know about the problem, how can they tell if the brain
is not functioning at all. Maybe it's obvious because of 'how' the fetus moves, as the movements are most
likely abnormal.

 

[karrie]

that is so sad. At what stage of development do they know about the problem, how can they tell if the brain
is not functioning at all. Maybe it's obvious because of 'how' the fetus moves, as the movements are most
likely abnormal.

I never thought to ask.

 

[JLM]

I have not heard of such a thing, what happens to a newborn, born without a brain. Is it stillborn? or?

I did hear of it, once, not too long ago. That would be a valid reason to abort.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

So....with respect to the very broad paint brush...are you saying that
ALL people that are in the Pro-Life camp are religious, and are only
in that camp due to religion? That's the only reason? No Atheists in
that foxhole?

Most of them are religious and most of them are in it to promote their religion. Their religion (or rather, their interpretation of their religion, their are plenty of Christians who don't have any problem with abortion) tells them that their God forbids abortion, so they are against abortion.

As to Atheists, no doubt there are some who are prolife, but they are an exception. In general, very few Atheists are anti-abortion. In USA, the states where Fundamentalists have the most influenced are also strongest opponents fo abortion.

Anyone who takes away a life is a murderer.
Sorry, but you are full of it.

I see, so if I kill an ant or a cockroach, I am a murderer (I am taking life after all). If I take antibiotics, I am a mass murderer, worse than Hitler (since I am killing bacteria by the millions).

And I am full of it?

Like I said....your turn.

You're not fudging the issue are you?

And exactly what issue am I fudging, Avro? You have decided unilaterally what is a murder and what isn't. Do you expect the society to adopt your definition, lock, stock and barrel?

If I actually believed that having an abortion was murder, then I could never allow an abortion at all, under any circumstances, because I could never agree with murder.

Quite so, I think that is how most prochoice people feel. If I become convinced that abortion is murder, I will be against abortion as well. But ‘abortion is murder’ is a religious view, not a scientific, biological or medical one. There is no evidence in support of the supposition that human life begins at conception.

 

[lone wolf]

So ... you place as much value on the life of a cockroach as you do a human being? From someone who claims a woman can be pregnant with an embryonic turnip, that figures.

Just live for the headgame, don'cha?

BTW.... Here are your words again (as if you can't scroll back)

You still did not answer my question. Are you going to put a woman who has an abortion in prison for life without parole? And give her the noose if she is in USA? If so, only then it will be clear that you believe that abortion is murder. If not, you are fudging the issue.

Answer this question first, then we will move on to the other points raised by you, if you wish.

 

[TenPenny]

If a woman is have a child agianst her will....yes.

So, if a woman is pregnant, and doesn't want to have a baby, then abortion is okay.

Which is exactly my stand.

Glad to see we're in agreement.

 

[JLM]

So, if a woman is pregnant, and doesn't want to have a baby, then abortion is okay.

Which is exactly my stand.

Glad to see we're in agreement.

I believe by "against her will" he means rape.............not that difficult to understand... :smile:

 

[Goober]

There is major differences between some groups of scientist whether it is at the 20 or 24 week period.

So what is your response for those that believe life begins at conception - as where else could it begin but at that point -

Next - A fetus develops at differing rates - It is not an assembly line where at week 12 all fetuses have reached the same developmental point - so the 20 & 24 week period is not always valid.

Lastly - We know little about the human mind - So using this as the basis to support your view is really bad science - You are reaching -
As time goes on and more studies are performed, more we learn about the brain I am of the opinion that the 24 week period will move back-wards in time.

An example you can look at is long term stress - Every one agrees that is causes damage to a persons health - yet very little has been shown as to exactly what long term stress causes - It was only proven recently and definitively that long term stress can cause heart disease and heart attacks.

 

[TenPenny]

I believe by "against her will" he means rape.............not that difficult to understand... :smile:

The term used was to have a baby 'against her will'.

It didn't say anything about rape.

I'm going by what was written.

If you want to invent meanings for what other people wrote, go ahead. I'll go with what was written.

 

[YukonJack]

Those of us who oppose abortion were told: If you don't like abortion, don't have one.

Well, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't be promiscuous.

And a question: Aren't you glad your mother did not hold the same twisted view as you?

 

[JLM]

The term used was to have a baby 'against her will'.

It didn't say anything about rape.

I'm going by what was written.

If you want to invent meanings for what other people wrote, go ahead. I'll go with what was written.

It's not frickin' rocket science- it's fairly obvious that pregnancy can be the result of rape. Or are you one of these guys who can only read between the lines when it suits you? :lol::lol:

 

[Kreskin]

Beverley woman's morning sickness was so bad she had an abortion

 

[Tonington]

Well, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't be promiscuous.

That's great news for those of us in monogamous relationships! Thanks Jack!

 

[TenPenny]

It's not frickin' rocket science- it's fairly obvious that pregnancy can be the result of rape.

Where did I say it couldn't?

 

[SirJosephPorter]

There is major differences between some groups of scientist whether it is at the 20 or 24 week period.

Quite so, I agree.

So what is your response for those that believe life begins at conception - as
where else could it begin but at that point -

That is a religious view, not a scientific view. Scientific view is that there is no beginning or end to life, it is a continuum. Thus sperm and egg are very much alive before conception, life very much exists before conception.

Next - A fetus develops at differing rates - It is not an assembly line where at week 12 all fetuses have reached the same developmental point - so the 20 & 24 week period is not always valid.

No problem here.

Lastly - We know little about the human mind - So using this as the basis to support your view is really bad science - You are reaching -
As time goes on and more studies are performed, more we learn about the brain I am of the opinion that the 24 week period will move back-wards in time.

It is quite possible. And as we know more and more about it, it may very well be that the limits to abortion will be pushed further and further back. In the limit, suppose technology advances so much that the fetus can be removed at conception and incubated in a Petri dish to a baby. Then it would be perfectly OK to ban abortion in my view, provided government is willing to pay all the costs of incubating the baby and for its upbringing.

Those of us who oppose abortion were told: If you don't like abortion, don't have one.

Well, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't be promiscuous.

And a question: Aren't you glad your mother did not hold the same twisted view as you?

That is the standard question posed by prolifers and that is pure nonsense. If my mother had had an abortion, I would not be sitting in some corner, crying because my mother aborted me. I will never have existed; I will never have been born. And I would be OK with that, because I wouldn’t’ be aware of it anyway.

That question doesn’t make any kind of sense.

 

[JLM]

Well, if you don't want to get pregnant, don't be promiscuous.

/QUOTE]

I think the word "promiscuous" will go the way of the Dodo if it isn't headed that way already. I think the days are gone when a woman is only allowed to have sex with her husband.....................like it or not Y.J. I personally have no problem with any woman having sex with anyone unless she's being deceitful with her husband or she's spreading S.T.D.s around. The problem arises when she doesn't want to take responsibility if there are consequences.