Healthcare system disintegration

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Far too simple. That has peen one of the possible fixes but the left does not like it. Actually that is close to what we have now since most doctors are self employed and pay all their office expenses out of the fees paid. Where we run into difficulties is when the problems require expensive treatment like transplants or drugs. Here the government health care industry has a lock on service and the costs are out of control. ER is run like a walk in clinic which is neither cost effective or sanitary.
I think we will eventually move to a two tiered system of some kind when enough people realize that the current system is not sustainable. Everyone will be entitled to free basic care but after that what you get will depend to a certain extent on the amount of premiums you pay for a bundle of services much like life insurance. To a certain extent we even have that now with some union health plans. For a larger monthly fee you can get a private room and all sorts of extras.

Don't hold your breath- after decades of demonstration that the single tier system isn't working, the powers that be still can't see it, maybe what it boils down to is idiots who think repeating the same procedure is eventually going to get different results. :lol:
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Does anyone have an example of a modern healthcare system that is two-tiered which has shown a secular trend of reduced healthcare costs? Or better yet any healthcare system which has had long term reductions in the cost of delivering healthcare? Heck, even stable long term costs?
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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I had no idea plane flights to Mexico for dental work were free. But now that you have pointed it out I am sure many Canadians with dental and eye problems will take advantage of the opportunity.

It's just as free as healthcare is in Canada

No stats on French doctors or the Alberta school system to support you point of view.? I didn't expect any; primarily because you can't post what does not exist.

I ain't your google bitch... Either educate yourself or refrain from pretending to actually know anything about the French healthcare experience.

... And yes, the AB education experience is directly applicable. The ATA has painted itself into a corner and is slowly withering away on the vine by virtue of forcing the prov gvt to turn to the private sector to provide better service, education and results... Links to this reality are only necessary for the willfully blind that are the ATA.


And as usual you manage a complete non-sequitur. There are no parallels between a hypothetical theatre fire and a disease pandemic.

Sure there are.. You were the one that wanted to rely on the WHO's "possible" roles and the "pretend-scenarios" for which they will save the world.. You opened the door to that comment.

But, who am I kidding, just like I mentioned in another post in this thread, every time you lack an answer or have any kind of intelligent rebuttal, you lean on a bullsh*t position that everyone is being "obtuse" or they "just don't understand"/
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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I ain't your google bitch... Either educate yourself or refrain from pretending to actually know anything about the French healthcare experience.

... And yes, the AB education experience is directly applicable. The ATA has painted itself into a corner and is slowly withering away on the vine by virtue of forcing the prov gvt to turn to the private sector to provide better service, education and results... Links to this reality are only necessary for the willfully blind that are the ATA.

Sure there are.. You were the one that wanted to rely on the WHO's "possible" roles and the "pretend-scenarios" for which they will save the world.. You opened the door to that comment.

But, who am I kidding, just like I mentioned in another post in this thread, every time you lack an answer or have any kind of intelligent rebuttal, you lean on a bullsh*t position that everyone is being "obtuse" or they "just don't understand"/

Ain't gonna work, CM. I doubt there is anyone in these forums who see your last post for for anything but what is really is, an admission of defeat coupled with your usual tactics of resorting to insults and attempting to draw the thread off-topic. Unable to find any evidence whatsoever to support your ideas you attempt to save face by resorting to bad language and rudeness. I note there is not a shred of evidence to support anything you have stated, but then again, that is your style isn't it? Assertion and stubborn repetition in place of fact; and insults in place of intelligent discourse. This is my last reply to anything you have to say on this topic unless you actually bother to add something new.
 

JLM

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Does anyone have an example of a modern healthcare system that is two-tiered which has shown a secular trend of reduced healthcare costs? Or better yet any healthcare system which has had long term reductions in the cost of delivering healthcare? Heck, even stable long term costs?

How would that ever happen when as soon as it's evident costs are declining everyone in the system would think they deserve a raise? :smile:
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Ain't gonna work, CM. I doubt there is anyone in these forums who see your last post for for anything but what is really is, an admission of defeat coupled with your usual tactics of resorting to insults and attempting to draw the thread off-topic. Unable to find any evidence whatsoever to support your ideas you attempt to save face by resorting to bad language and rudeness. I note there is not a shred of evidence to support anything you have stated, but then again, that is your style isn't it? Assertion and stubborn repetition in place of fact; and insults in place of intelligent discourse. This is my last reply to anything you have to say on this topic unless you actually bother to add something new.

Yeah.. Good one.

To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised to see that you didn't fall back on the lame tactic of accusing a contradictory opinion of being obtuse.. Kudos to you!

Take the time and learn about France's system and then you can make objective statements. The unfortunate part of this is that you have taken a position in which you refuse to seek the answers yourself and demand that I provide the basis for the info.. Perhaps this 'internet debating style' is profound in your eyes, but not mine.

Sadly, you see this as a 'win - lose' arrangement. My posturing (or stubbornness as you put it) is/was to force you to generate the info for yourself, however, as you have demonstrated, that is not in the cards. That said, it is impossible to any form of meaningful dialogue based on your sheer fabrication of reality.

In the end, whether we speak of AB education trends or France's healthcare, the facts will always be the facts (to use a bastardized version of J. Chretin's famous statement). Deny and/or spin the reality all you like but it will not change "what is" to what you personally want to see.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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How would that ever happen when as soon as it's evident costs are declining everyone in the system would think they deserve a raise? :smile:

Yeah...anyways, there are many health care systems out there in this world...with different mixes of public and private involvement. It would be nice to have some actual evidence to evaluate the best policies for bringing costs down.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Yeah...anyways, there are many health care systems out there in this world...with different mixes of public and private involvement. It would be nice to have some actual evidence to evaluate the best policies for bringing costs down.
Is that even possible?

As society grows, any cost savings in application, will be gobbled up by increased usage.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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Is that even possible?

I suspect it's not, that's why in the end I also asked if there was even any examples of stabilizing health care costs. As you mention, we have to take into account the numbers of users. Some countries in demographic decline might have stabilized the costs...
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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I suspect it's not, that's why in the end I also asked if there was even any examples of stabilizing health care costs. As you mention, we have to take into account the numbers of users. Some countries in demographic decline might have stabilized the costs...

I would say that if the cost per citizen is not increasing at the rate it is now and wait times are not excessive then it would be a good system. Another indicator is how much of the total cost is eaten up in administration.
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
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How would that ever happen when as soon as it's evident costs are declining everyone in the system would think they deserve a raise? :smile:

A very good point, and one I have been trying to make in several threads concerning health care. In the last decade, and especially in Alberta, numerous publicly funded healthcare services have been turned over to the private sector in the name of health care "reform." To my knowledge there has been no effort to determine whether any of these changes has actually resulted in a reduction in health care costs (or at least no one has released a study showing it to be true). Perhaps it is time for the proponents of private sector health care to actually show that it really works as well as they claim, and that it is not merely a gigantic scam to reward medical corporations that support the government. I note that at last years' meeting of the Canadian Medical Association there was overwhelming support for more private health care services, but that not a single study was presented at this meeting to show how that would in any way reduce health care costs.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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