Hamas attacks Israel

[petros]

Unfortunately, the Hamas are against a 2-state solution. They insist that Israel must be destroyed & all Jews along with it. How do you convince a terrorist group that they need to change their attitude? Most likely no one can which is why this is not going to be an easy win for Israel, especially since they are always deemed to be the aggressor when all they're doing is trying to survive.

So, what is the solution then? When one part is irrational it's pretty hard to come up with any solution. And, if Palestinians insist on having Hamas govern them, then they'll just have to put up with being slaves to their leadership who insists on brainwashing children that Jews & Christians are monkey's & pigs, therefore must be destroyed, there will never be a solution unless the Palestinians themselves reject Hamas. We could be waiting a long time for that to happen. Just sayin...

When Zionist terrorism is wrangled in, Hamas has no warring purpose.

More today...

WEST BANK: A Palestinian woman was lightly wounded in an attack by Jewish settlers in the West Bank village of Susya, near Hebron. A resident said eight settlers wearing face coverings entered the village with a few teenagers, went into homes, beat the woman and also reportedly wounded a man. The resident also reported acts of vandalism, which the police said they opened an investigation into. Israeli police also said there were "mutual assaults" in the village and that all those involved had dispersed.

Channel 12 News reported that Israel's Shin Bet head Ronen Bar told Netanyahu there are essentially "no police in Israel" during a discussion on last week's deadly settler raid on the Palestinian town of Jit in the West Bank. Only two arrests have been made in the case.

 

[Taxslave2]

You're too old and crusty.

Too old to interest a preacher anyway.

 

[Taxslave2]

You know that is one of the worst propaganda pieces I've read yet.

Too bad it is all true.

 

[petros]

Too bad it is all true.

It's 75% bullshit.

 

[Ron in Regina]

That the writer calls it "so called" shows they already consider the issue not valid…

Or “so called” because the term is used for different definitions depending on the audience…etc…which audience would you fall into & thus which definition would it be used in for your…digestion of it?

When Zionist terrorism is wrangled in, Hamas has no warring purpose…

And where reciprocal terrorism is wrangled in between Zionism/Jews and Iran/Palestine/Hamas/Houthis/Hezbolah/Islamic Jihad/and the many others (mostly Iran sponsored) then a two state solution will make sense again like the first many-many times it was offered & rejected.

If the Middle East ever gets their poop in a group, and stops trying to annihilate each other…I doubt that’ll leave Hamas as the Arab Boy Scouts of the region.

If you want to take it as applying to you, that's on you.

I was talking more about this fucking idiot author.

Ahhh…

…all because you too fucking smooth brained to have empathy and understanding…

My mistake. I don’t take that stuff to hart, & with humour I view it through the eyes of debate. No worries, & you can do better if you choose to (debate wise, ‘cuz I’ve seen & experienced it), and that’s why I pointed it out.

It's 75% bullshit.

And what UNRWA has taught in the school systems for the last 1/2 dozen generations of refugees that qualify for their attention, into perpetuity, isn’t? Talk’n about brainwashing in a captive audience? Just try’n to balance out the narrative.

WEST BANK: A Palestinian woman was lightly wounded in an attack by Jewish settlers in the West Bank village of Susya, near Hebron. A resident said eight settlers wearing face coverings entered the village with a few teenagers, went into homes, beat the woman and also reportedly wounded a man. The resident also reported acts of vandalism, which the police said they opened an investigation into. Israeli police also said there were "mutual assaults" in the village and that all those involved had dispersed.

That’s horrible in a super-shitty way (!!), almost like a microcosm of what happened pre-reciprocally back about 10 months ago on a much bigger scale.

Honk honk.

Indeed!

Unfortunately, the Hamas are against a 2-state solution. They insist that Israel must be destroyed & all Jews along with it.

You’re not suppose to point that out as the history goes against the current Iran/Qatar sponsored narrative. This below though a dozen years old sums things up fairly comprehensively in less than a dozen minutes to that point, in the nature of balancing the narrative.

So, what is the solution then? When one part is irrational it's pretty hard to come up with any solution.

You know, you might have to define “rational” here as it’s a subjective term. What Hamas (&/or friends) believe is “rational” to them might not seem so to you & vice versa in the other direction.

If you’d grown up in an UNRWA educational system, and been raised by young parents who’d also been taught the same, & so on…you might see your neighbours as disposable martyrs and the actions of Hamas as “reasonable.”

 

[petros]

And where reciprocal terrorism is wrangled in betweenZionism/Jews and Iran/Palestine/Hamas/Houthis/Hezbolah/Islamic Jihad/and the many others (mostly Iran sponsored) then a two state solution will make sense again like the first many-many times it was offered & rejected.

And what UNRWA has taught in the school systems for the last 1/2 dozen generations of refugees that qualify for their attention, into perpetuity, isn’t? Talk’n about brainwashing in a captive audience? Just try’n to balance out the narrative.

That’s horrible in a super-shitty way (!!), almost like a microcosm of what happened pre-reciprocally back about 10 months ago on a much bigger scale.

Why has any deal been rejected? What's the big sticking point? Occupation? Is there an exit plan?

UNRWA goes around brainwashing you personly through our "foreign media".

A microcosm? It's only recent? It's not condoned?

Israeli settler violence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Fill your boots.

 

[Ron in Regina]

And honestly right now Ron, I'm stepping back from this convo with you.

That’s a shame but totally your call & I respect that.

The “Palestinians” (I’ll use the term to encompass those that live in the entire region including what’s now called Gaza, Israel, & the West Bank) shouldn’t have to live with bombs being dropped on their heads, or the threads of such, or suicide bombers, and so on and so forth.

Starting with the demonization of the response to the October 7th invasion of Israel, the 1200-ish murdered mix of civilians and military and concert goers, and the abduction of 250-ish back into Gaza…with 5000-ish freedom rockets lobbed into Israel in that 24hr period…being back-burner-ed to the response to it, is weird. That’s just my perspective and it’ll be different than others here & elsewhere

If I get out’a bed in the night (because I sleep at night as I work all day) because some meth/fentynal/crack-head is smashing car windows (including ours), and I pop him in the mouth in a “cease, and desist” sort’a way…does that make me the villain? I will be to some but not to others. There will be differing opinions on the situation, from neighbours to police to myself to the offender, etc…

Villain or not, whoever that is depending on the perspective, someone is going to get punched in the mouth and others are going to have to replace their car windows, & who’s responsible? Society? Settler Colonialism? Chinese/Mexican Cartels? The person who thought it was a good idea to smash other peoples windows while they slept? That person’s parents or the school system their grandparents attended? Me for wanting to just be back in bed and reacting with violence (or reciprocal violence) to achieve that goal?

Anyway, the point is, there’s going to be many perspectives on the same series of events, with different backstories like a Quentin Tarantino movie or a Palestine Israel goat rodeo kerfuffle. Does it mean there’s only one side that’s right and one side that’s wrong? That no matter how the dust settles, potentially all sides will remain unhappy about the outcome?

After this round in the Iran/Hamas/Hesbollah/etc vs Israel dust up, and before/during/after the next Oct 7th-2.0, this will still be debated from the different sides and the different perspectives of those, with as many opinions as people involved…directly or peripherally. That’s the interesting part (from the perspective of someone not directly having bombs dropped on their head, or the threat there of) and not “winning” the fight of my team is more right than your team, etc…

Anyway, Happy Saturday to everyone!!!

 

[petros]

That’s a shame but totally your call & I respect that.
View attachment 24297
The “Palestinians” (I’ll use the term to encompass those that live in the entire region including what’s now called Gaza, Israel, & the West Bank) shouldn’t have to live with bombs being dropped on their heads, or the threads of such, or suicide bombers, and so on and so forth.

Starting with the demonization of the response to the October 7th invasion of Israel, the 1200-ish murdered mix of civilians and military and concert goers, and the abduction of 250-ish back into Gaza…with 5000-ish freedom rockets lobbed into Israel in that 24hr period…being back-burner-ed to the response to it, is weird. That’s just my perspective and it’ll be different than others here & elsewhere

If I get out’a bed in the night (because I sleep at night as I work all day) because some meth/fentynal/crack-head is smashing car windows (including ours), and I pop him in the mouth in a “cease, and desist” sort’a way…does that make me the villain? I will be to some but not to others. There will be differing opinions on the situation, from neighbours to police to myself to the offender, etc…

Villain or not, whoever that is depending on the perspective, someone is going to get punched in the mouth and others are going to have to replace their car windows, & who’s responsible? Society? Settler Colonialism? Chinese/Mexican Cartels? The person who thought it was a good idea to smash other peoples windows while they slept? That person’s parents or the school system their grandparents attended? Me for wanting to just be back in bed and reacting with violence (or reciprocal violence) to achieve that goal?

Anyway, the point is, there’s going to be many perspectives on the same series of events, with different backstories like a Quentin Tarantino movie or a Palestine Israel goat rodeo kerfuffle. Does it mean there’s only one side that’s right and one side that’s wrong? That no matter how the dust settles, potentially all sides will remain unhappy about the outcome?

After this round in the Iran/Hamas/Hesbollah/etc vs Israel dust up, and before/during/after the next Oct 7th-2.0, this will still be debated from the different sides and the different perspectives of those, with as many opinions as people involved…directly or peripherally. That’s the interesting part (from the perspective of someone not directly having bombs dropped on their head, or the threat there of) and not “winning” the fight of my team is more right than your team, etc…

Anyway, Happy Saturday to everyone!!!

It's law not teams.

The United Nations affirmed the principle of international law that the continuation of colonialism in all its forms and manifestations is a crime and that colonial peoples have the inherent right to struggle by all necessary means at their disposal against colonial powers and alien domination in exercise of their right of self-determination.[22] National liberation struggles are categorized as international armed conflicts by Article 1(4) of the Additional Protocol I to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949 to which the majority of states (including the Western states) are parties.[23][24] The International Court of Justice concluded that Israel had breached its obligations under international law by establishing settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of imposing a régime, which is contrary to international law. The Court also concluded that the Israeli régime violates the basic human rights of the Palestinians by impeding the liberty of movement of the inhabitants of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (with the exception of Israeli citizens) and their exercise of the right to work, to health, to education and to an adequate standard of living.[25]

We should ignore it cuz holocaust pity party. The party is over. Go home.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Why has any deal been rejected? What's the big sticking point? Occupation? Is there an exit plan?

Which time? Starting when? Just this last round? The previous ones or the next ones? Each side has their own sticking points but from the outside looking in I’d venture the big one is the survival of Hamas as a political entity and a militant threat.

UNRWA goes around brainwashing you personly through our "foreign media".

No, but I’m not qualified to be under their wing and jurisdictional influence into perpetuate perpetuity. How ‘bout yourself?

A microcosm? It's only recent? It's not condoned?

Its scale, like the reaction of Israel to Hamas (& friends) from October 7th. Was it over the top (macrocosm) or proportionate compared to Dresden, etc…?

Israeli settler violence - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Villain or not, whoever that is depending on the perspective, someone is going to get figuratively punched in the mouth and others are going to have to replace their…Gaza (?), & who’s responsible? Society? Settler Colonialism? Iranian/American Cartels? Religion? The entities who thought it was a good idea to smash another peoples nation while they slept? That person’s parents or the UNRWA school system their grandparents attended? The reaction for wanting to just be back in bed (the status quo) and reacting with violence (or reciprocal violence) to achieve that goal?

Fill your boots.

This thread is 3500+ posts in, so we all have at this point.

After this round in the Iran/Hamas/Hesbollah/etc vs Israel dust up, and before/during/after the next Oct 7th-2.0, this will still be debated from the different sides and the different perspectives of those, with as many opinions as people involved…directly or peripherally.

…& here we are.

That’s the interesting part (from the perspective of someone not directly having bombs dropped on their head, or the threat there of) and not “winning” the fight of my team is more right than your team, etc…

 

[Ron in Regina]

It's law not teams.

Ok. That’s respected by every nation, without question, so there’s no debate or dissent in/at the UN then?

The United Nations affirmed the principle of international law that the continuation of colonialism in all its forms and manifestations is a crime and that colonial peoples have the inherent right to struggle by all necessary means at their disposal against colonial powers and alien domination in exercise of their right of self-determination.

Are you familiar with the current county we call Turkey (or whatever spelling variant you choose)? Did it always exist? When it formed, was anyone displaced and if so whom and to where? Why isn’t that in the news? Why aren’t the UN up in arms about it? Where’s UNRWA on those displaced persons? If Turkey wasn’t formed, and people were not displaced…we might not have the pizza we do here in Regina. Sort of a butterfly effect culinarily speaking.

We should ignore it cuz holocaust pity party. The party is over. Go home.

Yeah, ‘cuz it’s so 75-80 years ago like some of the other conflicts in the neighbourhood or elsewhere. Ancient history, nothing to see here, move along? Isn’t that somewhat hypocritical in light of the current conversation? Better part of a century later, here we are.

 

[spaminator]

More locals calling on CUPE leader Fred Hahn to step down
Author of the article:Bryan Passifiume
Published Aug 23, 2024 • Last updated 23 hours ago • 2 minute read

As the embattled head of CUPE continues to plead innocence, more locals are calling on him to step down.


After a persistent series of anti-Semitic and problematic social media posts since the Oct. 7 terror attacks, CUPE Ontario president Fred Hahn ignored calls from his union’s national executive to step down from his position as general vice-president of the union’s national board.

“I have given many decades of my adult life to our union. It’s because I deeply love my fellow CUPE members and the work they do,” Hahn said in a statement released Thursday.

“It’s why I’m both so sad and so angry. Trade unionists I have come to know and respect voted this week to overturn the democratic decisions of CUPE members. It is unprecedented in our union’s history and I’m worried countless CUPE members who are active in the Palestinian solidarity movement could be left more vulnerable and exposed by the precedent as they face similar situations as work.”


Earlier this month, Hahn shared a video on Facebook depicting an AI-generated Olympic diver — wearing a Star of David on his arm — leaping from the springboard and turning into a bomb falling on a building.

Despite Hahn’s assertions, a growing number of locals are demanding his resignation.



Among them are the CUPE Air Canada component, representing 10,000 Air Canada flight attendants, who described Hahn’s actions as “reckless” and putting the safety of their members at risk.

“Our members fly into Tel Aviv, we have members from across the globe, all nationalities and all different religions,” Component president Wesley Lesosky told the Toronto Sun.

“His comments were adding tension on flights, and adding conflict where it shouldn’t be.”



Lesosky said they discussed the issue with Hahn during CUPE’s national convention in October, but it proved fruitless.


“After he posted the last video and his comments, and once the national executive board requested his resignation, we fully supported it and felt we needed to put something up for our members who were reaching out to us,” he said.



Last week, CUPE Local 2974 — representing paramedics in Windsor-Essex — became the first local to call for Hahn’s resignation.

Also following suit was CUPE Local 5167, who in an open letter said that Hahn’s viewpoints on Israel and Palestine don’t reflect those of the entire union.

“The role of a CUPE union leader is to represent members first and foremost,” read an open letter issued Thursday by local executives.

“Fred’s actions have contributed to the fracturing of the CUPE Ontario labour movement. We further request that CUPE Ontario focus their efforts on supporting the work of their membership and building solidarity within membership on shared labour issues.”

Friday saw Local 3987 — representing custodians for the Simcoe Muskoka Catholic school board — join the campaign.

“CUPE Local 3987 stands with ALL members in our union,” read a statement from local president Jamie Cleroux.

“CUPE Local 3987 is asking for the hostages to be released, a ceasefire, and for Hamas to lay down their arms so Palestinians and Israelis can live in peace.”

Requests by the Toronto Sun to Hahn for comment went unacknowledged.

bpassifiume@postmedia.com
X: @bryanpassifiume

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1826659105538539750

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1823493479575544319

More locals calling on CUPE leader Fred Hahn to step down

CUPE Air Canada component, representing 10,000 flight attendants, described Hahn's actions as "reckless" and put their members at risk

torontosun.com

 

[petros]

Ok. That’s respected by every nation, without question, so there’s no debate or dissent in/at the UN then?

Are you familiar with the current county we call Turkey (or whatever spelling variant you choose)? Did it always exist? When it formed, was anyone displaced and if so whom and to where? Why isn’t that in the news? Why aren’t the UN up in arms about it? Where’s UNRWA on those displaced persons? If Turkey wasn’t formed, and people were not displaced…we might not have the pizza we do here in Regina. Sort of a butterfly effect culinarily speaking.

Yeah, ‘cuz it’s so 75-80 years ago like some of the other conflicts in the neighbourhood or elsewhere. Ancient history, nothing to see here, move along? Isn’t that somewhat hypocritical in light of the current conversation? Better part of a century later, here we are.

So Russia is innocent of parallel infractions too cuz holocaust? Fuck the laws cuz holocaust? The same UN that allowed the Zionist terrorists nationhood so the US and Europe didn't have to deal with violent Marxist Zionists and Anarchists? That UN?

Turkey? Ancient history? Are you still saying Palestine never existed cuz Turkey and Greece had a spat?

 

[Ron in Regina]

So Russia is innocent of parallel infractions too cuz holocaust?

Nope. Not even close. Infractions parallel to whom or what? That’s a pretty unspecific statement so difficult to comment on without making assumptions.

Fuck the laws cuz holocaust?

Nope. Not even close. It’s not me who’s stating the holocaust should be dismissed or ignored, nor the other events from the same or similar timeframes selectively shouldn’t be.

The same UN that allowed the Zionist terrorists nationhood so the US and Europe didn't have to deal with violent Marxist Zionists and Anarchists? That UN?

The same UN that is in constant turmoil and debate because of dissenting opinion? The same UN that allows vetoes of the entire entity by a select few?

OK Turkey? Ancient history? Are you still saying Palestine never existed cuz Turkey and Greece had a spat?

No, are you though? Through parallel stance? Essentially the same timeframe as both the holocaust and the Israel/Arab goat rodeo…& geographically located between the two of them more or less even.

Palestine existed, and exists to this day. Not as a nation but as a geographical area. Without getting into a “my dads older than your dad” type pissing match, Palestine is an area, that’s real and exists, and those in it (using the names of the current existing countries) like the Egyptians and Syrians and Lebanese and Israelis and those from the Mediterranean Islands, etc…that currently occupy it…are also real, and exist.

Who are the Palestinians? All of the above that have a tie to that geographical area? Or something else? When did the Palestinians that currently call themselves Palestinians start doing so? In your lifetime? Your Grandfathers?

Do all of the above have a claim to that land…that geographical area, or only the ones that started calling themselves Palestinians commonly in the 1960’s?

 

[petros]

Nope. Not even close. Infractions parallel to whom or what? That’s a pretty unspecific statement so difficult to comment on without making assumptions.

Nope. Not even close. It’s not me who’s stating the holocaust should be dismissed or ignored, nor the other events from the same or similar timeframes selectively shouldn’t be.

The same UN that is in constant turmoil and debate because of dissenting opinion? The same UN that allows vetoes of the entire entity by a select few?

No, are you though? Through parallel stance? Essentially the same timeframe as both the holocaust and the Israel/Arab goat rodeo…& geographically located between the two of them more or less even.

Palestine existed, and exists to this day. Not as a nation but as a geographical area. Without getting into a “my dads older than your dad” type pissing match, Palestine is an area, that’s real and exists, and those in it (using the names of the current existing countries) like the Egyptians and Syrians and Lebanese and Israelis and those from the Mediterranean Islands, etc…that currently occupy it…are also real, and exist.

Who are the Palestinians? All of the above that have a tie to that geographical area? Or something else? When did the Palestinians that currently call themselves Palestinians start doing so? In your lifetime? Your Grandfathers?

Do all of the above have a claim to that land…that geographical area, or only the ones that started calling themselves Palestinians commonly in the 1960’s?

Jews had Palestine Passports before getting independence FROM Palestine. How can a Govt of a land with no name Issue passports in name of Palestine the nothing empty land. They weren't British, Egyptian, Lebanese or Botswanan.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Jews had Palestine Passports before getting independence FROM Palestine. How can a Govt of a land with no name Issue passports in name of Palestine the nothing empty land. They weren't British, Egyptian, Lebanese or Botswanan.

The land area of Palestine. Named after Ottoman provinces, and whom was the governing entity controlling that geographical area at the time?

Or are you talking about the brown covered passports that came later on?

Whom where the Palestinian citizens described above?

 

[petros]

Of where? Palestine? Under Ottoman it was what? Palestine?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Of where? Palestine? Under Ottoman it was what? Palestine?

It’s a tangled web.


During Ottoman rule, which lasted from 1517 to 1917, the region known today as Palestine was part of the larger administrative division called the Ottoman Province of Syria. Specifically, it was often referred to as Southern Syria or the Mutasarrifate of Jerusalem, which included areas that are now part of modern-day Israel and the Palestinian territories.

After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire following World War I, the League of Nations granted Britain a mandate over the region in 1920. During this time, the area was formally referred to as the British Mandate of Palestine. This mandate lasted until 1948, when the State of Israel was established, leading to significant changes in the region's political landscape.

In the 20th century the name was used by the British to refer to "Mandatory Palestine," a territory from the former Ottoman Empire which had been divided in the Sykes–Picot Agreement and secured by Britain via the Mandate for Palestine obtained from the League of Nations.


(Can you imagine how much less fighting there would be right now, if what’s now Jordan wasn’t given “Trans-Jordan” and what’s now Jordan became Palestine, & what’s now Gaza/Israel/West Bank became Israel the better part of 100 years ago? With Jerusalem being a shared international protectorate?)

 

[petros]

This will help.

 

[Ron in Regina]

This will help.

Seen that one before. It predominantly speaks about the Zionist movement (nationalistic Jews that wanted their own nation) more so than the Arab movement (nationalistic Arabs that wanted their own nation) in the vacuum that will arise with WW1 & the ending of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[petros]

Seen that one before. It predominantly speaks about the Zionist movement (nationalistic Jews that wanted their own nation) more so than the Arab movement (nationalistic Arabs that wanted their own nation) in the vacuum that will arise with WW1 & the ending of the Ottoman Empire.

There wasnt a vacuum. The people that ran Palestine under the Ottoman Turks were the same people who ran it under Brits. At no point was it ever a free for all. Zionists went terrorist killing and killing and killing. They didnt want Marxist Zionist Jews in the US Commonwealth or Europe so they said "fuck it, give them the piece of Palestine that already stole. We don't want that shit here." They all hoped the Arabs would do what they didn't get done. Finishing the rest off.

Here's an eye opener....The Commonwealth, US and Europe were all in on the Holocaust. Nobody gave a shit about the camps. They all knew. It wasn't a big surprise.