Haiti,lets discuss it civilly

[damngrumpy]

First of all the Israel thing is starting to wear a little thin with all of us.
Has nothing to do with the topic at all. As for Haiti, the problem is
we are not equipped to fix the problem as it exists and moving the
people is not an answer either as the societal differences and the
level of crime is a serious problem and would be even more so for
us to bring everyone here.
The logistics of moving everyone would be more of a problem,
If you really want to solve Haiti's problem, the west must invest in
meaningful jobs and create a real society with infrastructure and
hope.
To say it could happen again, yes it will, but it can happen anywhere.

 

[captain morgan]

Is Haiti a big oil producer?

They have the same resources as the Dominican Republic... makes you wonder why one has done so well and the other remains in the 18th century.

 

[JLM]

They have the same resources as the Dominican Republic... makes you wonder why one has done so well and the other remains in the 18th century.

One speaks Spanish, the other speaks French. :lol:

Nothing can really stand up to an Earthquake or a good flood, no matter what the building code may be.

A lot of floods are man made- clear cut logging, log jams not cleared from rivers, even catch basins on city streets not cleared of leaves and debris.

 

[ironsides]

I'm going to go out on a limb and beg to differ, I'll bet if the codes in Haiti were the same as in San Francisco, the damage would have been about half.
Of course, when he mentioned oil I thought he was talkin' crude not peanut.

The results may not have been as bad, but Port au Prince would still have been destroyed. They don't have the money or infrastructure to build to the codes that San Francisco has. Those building they should us were just cement blocks or bricks. With a big influx of money going directly into building new modern Port au Prince, it mighy work. Point being we know they are going to have another major earthquake within 10 years or less. Would it be more economical to move them to safety now rather than risk more lives when it happens. He is a nut.

 

[mentalfloss]

They have the same resources as the Dominican Republic... makes you wonder why one has done so well and the other remains in the 18th century.

I wouldn't say D.R. is doing incredibly well - at least not economically. Ranked in the 80s for GDP, I think. Their tourism is what sets them apart from Haiti, but without that, they wouldn't be far off.

 

[ironsides]

But they are better off. The D.R. did not chop down every major forest causing floods every time it rains.

 

[petros]

But they are better off. The D.R. did not chop down every major forest causing floods every time it rains.

It will make it that much easier to strip mine without having to blame the mining companies for once.

 

[TTHH]

Haitians... are survivors, and have been long before we came along. The help we are giving them is not helping, they need to learn to work for tomorrow not today..that is the way they are,, survival of the day...
To understand these people, country and lifestyle, you have to know them and have actually been in that country. They take very easy to handouts...and that is what is being given to them..and that does not help.
They need education, on many things,, family planning being of the biggest need.

 

[petros]

Is it safe enough to go dig the gold or do we still have to wait?

 

[TTHH]

As for the DR, and their people, entirely different race altogether. The DR, sustains itself, with own natural resources. The haitians are there to do the work the Dominicans do not want to do. The Dominicans may be poor in the ways we think,,but the eat a lot better than we do..healthier in more ways,, and a lot happier.
Haiti does not have the same resources as DR... they sneak over illegally into DR, then they are hire to do menial labor, live in camps that are worse than slums as we know it,, and most have papers taken away..
They are treated the same as they were years ago,,, as slaves. Most haitians are from slave descent,,and that is how they are still treated by the DR side...
There are also some from the 'lost' Taino's....
Most of the artwork/carvings you buy is from Haiti, and Haitian people.

The DR may not have raped their forests, but they still get floods, etc,
When it rains there it rains...
Also Port au Prince is very susceptible to all these hurricanes, earth quakes etc, because of location.
The north coast of DR is protected by miles of coral reef,, it protects the land,,, hurricanes do not happen with the same force as other places because of this (so I am told by locals), and therefore just get heavy rains, that cause floods, roads to wash out, etc, and death.

The DR is better off because they are not haitians or blacks (slave descent)..they are spanish. Like it or not,,,the Dominicans do not like to be compared equally to haitians or blacks,,as they are not.

 

[Unforgiven]

Haiti needs a benevolent dictator that will force the population through violence if need be to settle down, get educated and build entrepreneurial skills that can build on human resources rather than natural ones. Tourism could be the spring board if security was addressed.

 

[petros]

A diet of something more than mudpies woud help.

 

[Unforgiven]

A diet of something more than mudpies woud help.

The world was dumping aid in there faster than anything and nothing comes of it. They need a dictator to take control rout the factions and put the people to work.

 

[JLM]

Haiti needs a benevolent dictator that will force the population through violence if need be to settle down, get educated and build entrepreneurial skills that can build on human resources rather than natural ones. Tourism could be the spring board if security was addressed.

Well that's just it- everyone was panicking because the donated money wasn't used to throw them up new houses overnight- it's simple enough to build them a bunch more crap of the same quality that just collapsed.

A diet of something more than mudpies woud help.

Yeah, maybe some mudpie a la mode.

 

[Trotz]

Let's bring them to Canada!
Future Liberal Party of Canada voters...

Haiti needs a benevolent dictator that will force the population through violence if need be to settle down, get educated and build entrepreneurial skills that can build on human resources rather than natural ones. Tourism could be the spring board if security was addressed.

What about us? I need a benevolent dictator to boot out the Hong Kong millionaires who are playing speculation on the Vancouver real estate market.


What Haiti needs; less so than a benevolent dictator, is someone with a whip and willing to turn the country into a giant agricultural estate - i.e. a Joseph Stalin

 

[Unforgiven]

Well that's just it- everyone was panicking because the donated money wasn't used to throw them up new houses overnight- it's simple enough to build them a bunch more crap of the same quality that just collapsed.



Yeah, maybe some mudpie a la mode.

Not that at all. Some places and people need for a time, a benevolent dictator who knows what is needed and makes that happen. They aren't ready for democracy because they can't deal with the corruption and violence that abounds now in Haiti. Once they, have an education through a number of generations, become prosperous through combined focused effort, gain development with infrastructure and commodity, then they are ready to sample bits of democracy and freedom. This protects them from those who would divide them and take advantage. Those who would keep them in this state while exploiting them for personal gain.

Few want to accept that yet none have the answer or plan that will bring any benefit to the people.

 

[Trotz]

Not that at all. Some places and people need for a time, a benevolent dictator who knows what is needed and makes that happen. They aren't ready for democracy because they can't deal with the corruption and violence that abounds now in Haiti. Once they, have an education through a number of generations, become prosperous through combined focused effort, gain development with infrastructure and commodity, then they are ready to sample bits of democracy and freedom. This protects them from those who would divide them and take advantage. Those who would keep them in this state while exploiting them for personal gain.

Few want to accept that yet none have the answer or plan that will bring any benefit to the people.

Education doesn't amount to much here; we have double digit unemployment among the youth here - and Haiti is no position to compete in the industrial market.
Best scenario for Haiti; not necessarily us I wouldn't like the influx of Haitians, would be actual annexation which would lead to us bringing a police force and bringing order and farmers into the country... alas something which would never happen as the corn agricultural lobby in the United States is extremely important (hence the HFCS in food products)

 

[ironsides]

How about we just move the Haitians off that island to a safer place to live. I know we have more than enough room in the U.S., Canada has even more space available. Nothing we can do will make Haiti a safer place geographically and meteorologically to live.

 

[Sparrow]

Has anyone read about this?

Somalia food aid stolen, sold in markets:
Thousands of sacks of food aid meant for Somalia's famine victims have been stolen and are being sold at markets in the same neighbourhoods where skeletal children in filthy refugee camps can't find enough to eat.

The UN's World Food Program for the first time acknowledged it has been investigating food theft in Somalia for two months. The WFP said that the "scale and intensity" of the famine crisis does not allow for a suspension of assistance, saying that doing so would lead to "many unnecessary deaths."

Somalia food aid stolen, sold in markets | Sympatico.ca News

This is not a reason to stop sending food but it does discourage people from giving. This has happened in every country we have send food and money.

 

[SLM]

Has anyone read about this?

Somalia food aid stolen, sold in markets:
Thousands of sacks of food aid meant for Somalia's famine victims have been stolen and are being sold at markets in the same neighbourhoods where skeletal children in filthy refugee camps can't find enough to eat.

The UN's World Food Program for the first time acknowledged it has been investigating food theft in Somalia for two months. The WFP said that the "scale and intensity" of the famine crisis does not allow for a suspension of assistance, saying that doing so would lead to "many unnecessary deaths."

Somalia food aid stolen, sold in markets | Sympatico.ca News

This is not a reason to stop sending food but it does discourage people from giving. This has happened in every country we have send food and money.

That's just sickening. And I do know it happens all the time but still.

It's bad enough to steal but to steal from poor desparate people. I can't see how these people have any humanity at all.

And it does discourage people unfortunately. It's hard not to be discouraged.