Gun Control is Completely Useless.

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
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Canada's New Gun Ban Validates Fears of Arbitrary and Authoritarian Government

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s unilateral order confirms suspicions that government is always on the verge of abusing its power.

J.D. Tuccille | 5.6.2020 2:30 PM


(ID 121335703 © Gints Ivuskans | Dreamstime.com)



In Canada as well as in the U.S., advocates of gun restrictions are cheering Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's ban on so-called "assault weapons" in the wake of a mass murder in Nova Scotia. Some of the crackdown's fans even say the move isn't enough—they want more! The cheers come although the ban is arbitrary, wouldn't have prevented the rampage, and has been enacted by decree.


In fact, Trudeau's move fully validates suspicions that government is always on the verge of authoritarian excess and that cooperating with its creeping restrictions is foolish.


On April 19, 2020, Gabriel Wortman donned a Royal Canadian Mounted Police uniform and slipped behind the wheel of a decommissioned squad car complete with light bar and decals to begin a 14-hour killing spree that ended only with his own death. Canada has strict gun laws compared to most of the U.S., but Wortman, "who was not licensed to possess firearms, used guns illegally obtained in Canada and from U.S. sources," according to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC). That is, Wortman broke Canada's law against impersonating a police officer and used black-market weapons to commit his murders.


Days later, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau—who was already committed to tighter gun laws—used the mass murder as a jumping-off point for implementing part of his wish list of legal changes. Trudeau "announced the ban of over 1,500 models and variants of assault-style firearms. These models represent nine categories of firearms and two types identified by characteristic," in the words of his press release.


As is always the case, the named "assault-style firearms" are distinguished from other guns primarily by aesthetics rather than power or function. The ban is to be implemented over two years, during which time the affected firearms can only be transported to be deactivated, taken home, exported, or surrendered to police, "unless you are an Indigenous person exercising treaty rights to hunt or a sustenance hunter." Compensation for owners of the newly outlawed guns is promised for some time in the future, although nothing is yet in place.


Importantly, nothing in the ban would have prevented Wortman's rampage, given that he was already unlicensed, illegally impersonating a cop, and using black-market firearms. True, under the new rules, his illegal weapons would be a bit more illegal, providing a few extra charges to press against his moldering corpse, if you're into that sort of thing. In fact, Wortman's entire crime—committed entirely in defiance of the law, by a man who burned his own home and clearly had no plans to survive—seems a brutal demonstration of the limits of governments' abilities to "reform" society and to protect people from human predators.


Not that anybody got to raise such objections ahead of time, because there was no debate. Trudeau's ban was implemented via an "order in council"—a decree that entirely bypasses Parliament. Orders in council resemble the executive orders issued by U.S. presidents, and have been subject to similar mission-creep, long ago evolving from means for settling administrative matters within government agencies into end-runs around normal democratic procedures.


"The trend in consequence of two wars in one generation has been in the direction of by-passing Parliament by the passing of orders-in-council which interfere with individual rights," John Diefenbaker, who later became prime minister, objected in a 1949 speech.
Trudeau's decree lives up to his predecessor's worst fears, threatening people with legal consequences for continuing to act in a harmless way that was perfectly legal up until his pronouncement, all in the name of preventing a crime that would have remained untouched by the new rules.


"Today, I became a criminal; not through my own actions, but due to a decision made by Justin Trudeau," writes Phil Steernberg in response to the ban. "With the stroke of a pen, Trudeau made me and 2.1M other Canadians criminals."


Steernberg goes on to detail the intrusions and oversight that gun owners already suffer in Canada, only to be criminalized anyway with the promise that they won't actually be prosecuted for another two years.





Then again, the Canadian government can only prosecute the violators it can find, and it's not entirely clear how many firearms and their owners are affected. The prime minister's office estimates "there are currently over 100,000 restricted firearms among the models that are now prohibited. This number does not include other newly-prohibited models that were not subject to registration requirements." That is, the government has registration records for guns that were already classified as "restricted," but has no idea who might own other guns falling under the new ban.


That lack of certainty comes after Canada's government made an abortive run at registering all long guns. Amidst soaring costs and widespread defiance, the registry was abandoned in 2012. As in other countries (gun policy expert Gary Mauser estimates that registries usually achieve only about one-sixth compliance), Canadian gun owners were hesitant to formally acknowledge ownership of property that might eventually be targeted for tighter restrictions.


"There's only two reasons to register something – gov't plans to tax it or confiscate it," the Canadian Shooting Sports Association warned in 2013.


Sure enough, in 2020, the Canadian prime minister is imposing a ban by decree. And some gun prohibition fans want him to go even further. The Globe and Mail calls the ban a "weak half-measure" because it doesn't criminalize the possession of handguns. Former Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe spokesman Michael Bociurkiw wants to seal the vast border with the U.S. to curtail gun smuggling and "to make Canadians feel safer."


Dutifully law-abiding owners of registered weapons will have a relatively tough time evading prohibition. But those who ignored registration requirements, or whose guns weren't subject to registration to begin with, will have the option of quietly hiding their possessions while knowing that their distrust of the government was justified.


The obvious lesson to take away from the crackdown in Canada is that the government you live under can turn against you at any time. And bringing yourself to the attention of that government—say, by registering property that some officials want to further restrict or completely prohibit—is just asking for trouble. That lesson should be taken to heart not just in Canada, but any place that those who would inflict restrictions and prohibitions on the rest of us seek power. Which is to say, Canada's gun ban by decree provides a schooling in authoritarianism for everybody.


https://reason.com/2020/05/06/canad...foQTbAYd_Dkwcfz3XH5jY2kPltsBp44g3KCsdtji51JGg


Dead on.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
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What a lot of blather.
Liberals deliver on a campaign promise.
Big whoop.

You know why there is a 2 year amnesty? Because they don't have the buyback program figured out. You know why they don't have a buyback program figured out? Because they had no intentions of delivering their 2015 promise.There was no plan.

This ban was an opportunistic and dumb move. They got arrogant and moved on things hastily.
 

JamesBondo

House Member
Mar 3, 2012
4,158
37
48
OIC Order in Chamber - def. several people in a room that decide to act unilaterally without a parliamentary process.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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https://www.facebook.com/CandiceBergenMp/videos/175733693827818


A good look at how the Liberals (with help from their even more lefty buddies) are shutting down democracy in Canada, with the pandemic as an excuse.




True Dat!



I have repeatedly said that Our idiot Boy Justin is an aspiring Soviet Socialist Dictator!


AND HE PROVES I AM RIGHT ON A REGULAR BASIS!


Soviet Socialist Dictators ONLY ALLOW govt to operate within a framework where any question asked of govt



CAN ONLY ELICIT A HAPPY YES ANSWER!


LIE-berals want all the power and all the money and NO RESPONSIBILITY for the results!



Candace Bergen is a VERY SHARP MP!



But I stand by my previous offer of credit to Pierre Poilivre who is - I think - EVEN SHARPER!



If Canada manages to AVOID becoming a Soviet Socialist Republic in the Venezuelan style it will be because of



the efforts of people like Poilivre and Bergen!
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Quote: Originally Posted by Hoid
What a lot of blather.
Liberals deliver on a campaign promise.
Big whoop.


Well, as you are a lefty, it is little wonder that you have no understanding of democracy in a free society.



The promise, like every promise, is to put the proposal before Parliament, to be discussed, amended, studied by committee and the Senate, and to withstand several votes before what the gov't wants becomes law.


That is the process.


When the process is bypassed, democracy is crippled, as the representatives of the people as a whole do not get to have input or VOTE on the actions proposed by the gov't.


Poly Sci for Dummies.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,273
3,984
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Edmonton
well obviously gun control is conflated with Trudeau Derangement Syndrome and the firing of Don Cherry.

It makes total sense when climate change is a hoax and only white people face discrimination.



Man, you really are full of it aren't you? Why so bitter? Laugh, love, relate.... life is good!
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,273
3,984
113
Edmonton
Man, you really are full of it aren't you? Why so bitter? Laugh, love, relate.... life is good!



BTW did you know that conservatives were a happier lot by far than liberals or those of the left? Hoid is a perfect example of that.


Generally - Conservatives = common sense; Liberals = selfish, greedy & power hungry and Trudeau is a perfect example of that.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83

Alberta Game Warden Association
May 18 at 11:41 PM ·
On May 1, 2020, Prime Minister Trudeau and the Liberal government implemented a prohibition of over 1500 firearms through an Order in Council (OIC).
The Alberta Game Warden Association (AGWA) wishes to clearly state that they oppose the OIC Firearms Ban and believes that any such issues should be taken through the democratic processes which our officials have been elected and sworn to uphold.
The Alberta Game Warden Association consists of Fish and Wildlife officers who strive to conserve the natural resources of Alberta by ensuring compliance with resource related activities such as hunting, trapping and fishing and to provide public safety by managing dangerous wildlife. AGWA believes it is critically important to show support for their stakeholders, specifically lawful firearms owners in the hunting, trapping, sport competition/target shooting and ranching community.
The OIC Firearm Ban lacks evidence-based decision making as shown in the following paragraphs.
The OIC claimed to be banning Military Grade Assault Weapons. That fundamental premise of the OIC is flawed as Military Grade Assault Weapons refers to fully automatic firearms with high capacity magazines, both of which were already prohibited in Canada in 1977 and 1992 respectively. None of the firearms that were banned are capable of firing in fully automatic mode (one depression of the trigger allowing for continuous firing) or legally able to contain more than five rounds in the magazine.
The Federal Liberal OIC further states that none of the firearms banned are commonly used for sporting or hunting purposes. However, the restricted firearms that are now prohibited, have been used for decades for sporting and competition purposes and were licensed by the Federal government for this very purpose. The non-restricted firearms that were banned under the OIC are common hunting rifles for both predators and large game animals. This was demonstrated by the fact that an exemption was included in the OIC allowing Indigenous people to continue to hunt for subsistence purposes with these very same firearms.
In addition to banning 1,500 firearms by specific make and model, the firearm ban includes the banning of firearms with a bore of 20 mm or more. Most 10 and 12 gauge shotguns with a removable choke have a bore of 20 mm or more, and would therefore be banned under the new regulations imposed. The intent of making these firearms may not be there at this moment. However, we believe that this oversight is a key example why this issue should have gone through the Parliamentary process. Instead, the lawful outdoor community members such as upland bird hunters or waterfowler’s have become criminals for possession of certain shotguns.
Statistics Canada figures show licenced gun owners are among the least likely citizens to commit a violent crime. New public safety measures should target the people responsible for criminal activity, tighten bail release conditions and address the socio-economic environments that give rise to violent life styles. Criminals who have illegally obtained firearms will not be impacted by this confiscation regime.
The Vancouver City Police Chief, who is the head of the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, was asked in 2019 whether he felt Canada needed further gun controls. He said, “Canada already has strong firearms regulations and no other law is required. The firearms laws in Canada are actually very good right now. They’re very strict.”
The Alberta Game Warden Association urges the Federal Liberal Party to repeal the OIC Firearm Ban immediately to ensure Canadian citizens can continue to use these firearms responsibly and not face criminal prosecution for possessing lawfully acquired property. Limited government resources should be focused on taking action against the root causes of violent crime, such as gang violence, firearms obtained illegally or those which are illegally smuggled into Canada.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
113
Northern Ontario,
You are posting a link and running away. You are scared to make a specific point because you know that you will look like a fool,again.


He doesn't read his own links
Order in council are to be used in emergencies , to be discussed and ratified by parliament at a later date!


Not to bypass parliament!
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
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Speaking of democracy: cities are also elected by democratic process...aren't they?

Blair vows handgun crackdown – giving cities power to ban weapons
Blair said the Liberal government will be introducing a law that gives municipalities the power to ban handguns in their jurisdictions.

https://www.westernstandardonline.c...crackdown-giving-cities-power-to-ban-weapons/

After banning 1,500 different types of firearms that Canadians own just weeks ago, Public Safety Minister is now turning is attention to banning handguns.

In an interview with the Star, Blair said the Liberal government will be introducing a law that gives municipalities the power to ban handguns in their jurisdictions.


Blair said new rules will allow municipalities to rule that handguns cannot be legally stored in their jurisdictions, which would get around provinces who oppose a handgun ban.

“My first goal is to work collaboratively with the provinces and territories …but we also recognize that the third order of government, municipalities, have a very significant role to play in this,” Blair told the Star.

“I understand in some parts of the country they may decide not to do anything. But that is unfair to a municipality that really feels strongly that (they) need to do more. And so we will work with them to find ways in which we can support them to do more.


“We are going to impose very strong restrictions on the possession, the storage and the use of handguns everywhere in Canada – but we recognize there are some jurisdictions with greater vulnerabilities, and we want to empower those jurisdictions to impose additional restrictions.

“For example, they may say they don’t want a firearm to be stored within their boundaries. They may say that (handguns) can only be stored at a range. They may say where ranges can be located in their municipality. And they can impose additional restrictions than the regime we impose that will respond to specific vulnerabilities in their community.”
 
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Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Canadian parliamnetary democracy - the Order in Council:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_in_Council

Please take a moment to learn the first thing about your own form of government


This guy says in correctly, and this was before Trudeau Senior proved him right by using OiC to bypass Parliament regularly..............in peacetime. If you give gov't an opportunity to screw democracy, the state will always use it to the utmost extent, far surpassing the originally intended purpose.


"The trend in consequence of two wars in one generation has been the direction of by-passing Parliament by passing orders-in-council which interfere with individual rights...which too often deny the right of appeal to the court." "There should be a standing committee of the House of Commons whose responsibility it would be to vigilantly examine and report on all orders-in-council that would diminish the freedom of the individual."
"Without an Opposition, decision by discussion would end and would be supplanted by virtual dictatorship, for governments prefer to rule by order-in-council to Parliament, and bureaucrats prefer to be uncontrolled by Parliament or the courts."



(From an October 27, 1949 speech given by Mr. John Diefenbaker) emphasis in original



This great man also gave us the 1960 Bill of Rights, which is much, much superior to the Charter that ended up in our Constitution.
 

Hoid

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 15, 2017
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This guy says in correctly, and this was before Trudeau Senior proved him right by using OiC to bypass Parliament regularly..............in peacetime. If you give gov't an opportunity to screw democracy, the state will always use it to the utmost extent, far surpassing the originally intended purpose.


"The trend in consequence of two wars in one generation has been the direction of by-passing Parliament by passing orders-in-council which interfere with individual rights...which too often deny the right of appeal to the court." "There should be a standing committee of the House of Commons whose responsibility it would be to vigilantly examine and report on all orders-in-council that would diminish the freedom of the individual."
"Without an Opposition, decision by discussion would end and would be supplanted by virtual dictatorship, for governments prefer to rule by order-in-council to Parliament, and bureaucrats prefer to be uncontrolled by Parliament or the courts."



(From an October 27, 1949 speech given by Mr. John Diefenbaker) emphasis in original



This great man also gave us the 1960 Bill of Rights, which is much, much superior to the Charter that ended up in our Constitution.
The Canadian democratic system works a certain way for good reason.

I would encourage you to learn about it.