Gun Control is Completely Useless.

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
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Yes. Not out-gunned, but equally gunned. The people are the militia, the people are to be armed in such a way that they can defend themselves and resist tyranny. To that end the people have a right to keep and bear arms roughly the equivalent of what a US soldier carries as his personal weapons, ie and assault rifle and handgun.


Of course the public isn't equally gunned. The public isn't allowed military grade weapons. Few people would actually own them if they were available. Criminals would have them in spades. How often are armor piercing bullets and Kevlar body armor turning up in raids?


You have to understand the reason for this: the first battle of the American Revolutionary War was fought when British troops went into the countryside to seize arms.......

You're not afraid of the British are you Colpy?


You see, unlike today's lefties, the folks that penned the Bill of Rights (at the insistence of the Continental Congress) trusted the majority........

Of course they never had to face the Bloods, the Crips, the Hells Angles or the Rock Machine. Imagine what M13 would do to the US back in the 1700s. :roll:



You wouldn't like to live in Switzerland, or Finland? Or the parts of the USA that are most heavily armed.....but have lower murder rates than Canada????? For that matter, Newfoundland has the highest gun ownership rates of any province in Canada.....and the lowest murder rate.....I am not afraid of guns, or any other inanimate object.

I might not mind a visit but I wouldn't want to live there. :p
You might point out though that the Swiss have some changes due to the Schengen Treaty. Hello gun registry, All guns bought or sold have to have a valid weapon acquisition permit, one weapon per aquistion permit, it would be a dream for the US to adopt such restrictions on firearms like the Swiss have.

hat is an obsession with you, isn't it??? Where is the highest rate of murder in the USA???? For years it was Washington, DC. Their gun bans worked wonders, didn't they?

Yeah poverty and other factors influence it too. You don't seem to want acknowledge that for some reason. The gun bans works fine it's the gun show loophole that is causing some problems. I wonder why this law abiding gun owners who buy guns legally, use and store them correctly and generally feel that safety and knowledge of guns is the key to good ownership are frothing to keep the gunshow loophole open? Almost a contradiction there isn't it?


...After the approval of 2/3 of the state legislatures. :lol: Good luck with that. :lol: The Bill of Rights is (correctly) considered second only to the 10 Commandments as Holy Script in the USA.

Easy Peasy. Remember the Partiot Act? ;-)

The politicians fear for their jobs because the 4 million members of the NRA VOTE to defend their rights, as do tens of millions of others who do not belong, but do pay attention. It is called Democracy, you should look it up.:roll:

You think I don't know what democracy is? Most people don't even know who the politicians for their state are. Most people don't care who they are or what they do.
Less than have of the people able to vote, bother with it. For starters. A lobby group, that supports misleading information and block voting is nothing more than fundimentalist sheep. You should look it up.

Yeah, along with all those other backward ideas we fought over for 1,000 years....like freedom of speech, of religion, the right to participate in our gov't etc.
Democracy and political freedom are parallel developments with firearms. Weapons in the hands of all the people won us freedom and a civilized society....and easy access to such is the "canary in the cage" of our political freeedoms........and this is what gun owners understand instinctively....when they start taking away your guns, your freedom is next.

Yet they took them away in Britian and they're still free, same with Canada and we're free. Freedom doesn't come from a gun Colpy. And as I said many times before, should the government choose to come a take away your guns, there isn't anything you're going to do to stop them. As a matter of fact, I bet that if tyranny did rear it's ugly head in Canada, people like you would be the one's behind it. Only you would call it the right thing to do.
 

Colpy

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Unforgiven;

Of course the public isn't equally gunned. The public isn't allowed military grade weapons. Few people would actually own them if they were available. Criminals would have them in spades. How often are armor piercing bullets and Kevlar body armor turning up in raids?
Ahhh....yes they are. An acquaintance from Georgia owns two .30 cal belt fed Browning machine guns. Now these require registration etc....about the same as a pistol in Canada.

In the vast majority of US States Semi-auto military style weapons are unrestricted........30 round mags are unrestricted. You can buy a civilian copy of the M16 and a dozen 30 round mags as easily as you can buy a single shot shotgun.
These are military-grade weapons.

Geez, I own a kevlar vest.....not much use since I left Brinks. wanna buy it??



Of course they never had to face the Bloods, the Crips, the Hells Angles or the Rock Machine. Imagine what M13 would do to the US back in the 1700s. :roll:
M13? No, the Bloods, The Crips, and the Hell's Angels are CRIMINALS, and will always be armed......

As were criminals in the 1700s. The difference was their victims were too.....

I might not mind a visit but I wouldn't want to live there. :p
You might point out though that the Swiss have some changes due to the Schengen Treaty. Hello gun registry, All guns bought or sold have to have a valid weapon acquisition permit, one weapon per aquistion permit, it would be a dream for the US to adopt such restrictions on firearms like the Swiss have.

What, so every male can keep a full auto and 200 rounds of ammo in the house??? I'm THERE!


Yeah poverty and other factors influence it too. You don't seem to want acknowledge that for some reason. The gun bans works fine it's the gun show loophole that is causing some problems. I wonder why this law abiding gun owners who buy guns legally, use and store them correctly and generally feel that safety and knowledge of guns is the key to good ownership are frothing to keep the gunshow loophole open? Almost a contradiction there isn't it?

Don't be ridiculous. I don't believe gun control stops murder that is inspired by cultural factors.

And I have been an instructor for the Canadian Firearms Safety Course, as well as a combat shooting instructor. I need no lectures on gun safety from you, Thank you.



You think I don't know what democracy is? Most people don't even know who the politicians for their state are. Most people don't care who they are or what they do.
Less than have of the people able to vote, bother with it. For starters. A lobby group, that supports misleading information and block voting is nothing more than fundimentalist sheep. You should look it up.

No, I don't think you know what Liberty is.

Fundamentalist? You are getting your hate targets confused....

Find me a piece of misleading information set out by the NRA. For every one you find, I'll find one from the Canadians for Gun Control, and I'll PROVE it!


Yet they took them away in Britian and they're still free, same with Canada and we're free. Freedom doesn't come from a gun Colpy. And as I said many times before, should the government choose to come a take away your guns, there isn't anything you're going to do to stop them. As a matter of fact, I bet that if tyranny did rear it's ugly head in Canada, people like you would be the one's behind it. Only you would call it the right thing to do.

RIGHT. You are the one that is advocating the destruction of ancient rights and liberties....yet you have the gall to accuse me of promoting tyranny?????? :roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

And yes, I'm a historian, and freedom most definitely DID come from the muzzle of a gun.
 

Colpy

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No availibility of military grade weapons, huh?

This gentlemen, Chris of Arizona, wears a lovely compact version of the Colt AR 15. Loaded with a 30 round magazine, and accessorized by another in his back pocket, Chris epitomizes the freedom of the State of Arizona in the United States of America. the weapon is made by Colt arms, who supply the twin to it, the M16 AII, to the armed forces of the United States. Available in the vast majority of US states with NO restriction, protected by the Second Amendment, see a gun shop (or gun show) near you. :)

Obama supporters brought knives to the gunfight over health care - The Globe and Mail
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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No towed 88s?
No Losat?
No 120mm smooth bore for the station wagon? Or do you drive Bradley?
This is getting a bit ridiculous.
 

Colpy

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No towed 88s?
No Losat?
No 120mm smooth bore for the station wagon? Or do you drive Bradley?
This is getting a bit ridiculous.

For a guy that supposedly dislikes red herrings, you keep a bunch of 'em......

the right applies to personal arms....how do you "bear" an 88????

you can't. And no, driving a tank is not bearing arms.....carrying a rifle is.
 

Unforgiven

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For a guy that supposedly dislikes red herrings, you keep a bunch of 'em......

At this point we're so far off the topic and couple of points we can discuss redherrings have become quite acceptable.

the right applies to personal arms....how do you "bear" an 88????



you can't. And no, driving a tank is not bearing arms.....carrying a rifle is.

Maybe you can't with those girlie arms of yours. :lol:

But why not own tanks and grenades and landmines along with mortars and everything else? Is there some limit to what weapons people should be allowed to have in your mind?
 

Colpy

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At this point we're so far off the topic and couple of points we can discuss redherrings have become quite acceptable.







Maybe you can't with those girlie arms of yours. :lol:

But why not own tanks and grenades and landmines along with mortars and everything else? Is there some limit to what weapons people should be allowed to have in your mind?

Hey! That looks like an FN FAL that bear is bearing! I've got one of those.......

Nice piece.

Only I am no longer allowed to take it out of the house......ever.

I am Shocked! SHOCKED I say! Get with the times! LANDMINES are banned, don't you know! Barbarian! There are no more landmines, thanks to the efforts of Lefties Without Brains! They are now called Improvised Explosive Devices!!!!! Get with the times!:roll:

Tanks are a little expensive, and hard on fuel........grenades. OK. Got any you want to sell???

I am making fun because we are talking about FIREARMS, and your digression into other subjects is simply not adding to the discussion.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
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For a guy that supposedly dislikes red herrings, you keep a bunch of 'em......

the right applies to personal arms....how do you "bear" an 88????

you can't. And no, driving a tank is not bearing arms.....carrying a rifle is.
Aren't herrings used to bait lobster traps out your way???
Not gun toting right wing rednecks like us.....
 

Unforgiven

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May 28, 2007
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Hey! That looks like an FN FAL that bear is bearing! I've got one of those.......

Nice piece.

Only I am no longer allowed to take it out of the house......ever.

I am Shocked! SHOCKED I say! Get with the times! LANDMINES are banned, don't you know! Barbarian! There are no more landmines, thanks to the efforts of Lefties Without Brains! They are now called Improvised Explosive Devices!!!!! Get with the times!:roll:

Tanks are a little expensive, and hard on fuel........grenades. OK. Got any you want to sell???

I am making fun because we are talking about FIREARMS, and your digression into other subjects is simply not adding to the discussion.

Actually we're talking about closing a loophole that allows anyone in the US to buy or sell a gun without any check or paperwork. Why are you against it again?
 

Colpy

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Actually we're talking about closing a loophole that allows anyone in the US to buy or sell a gun without any check or paperwork. Why are you against it again?

No....actually we were discussing the absolute uselessness of gun control, especially as practised in Canada......

But I am willing to digress a little. I am against government restrictions on the private sale of firearms in the USA for three reasons.

1. Any such restriction would be a complete waste of time in a nation with hundreds of millions of firearms.

2. The ownership of firearms in the USA is a clear constitutional right, in line completely with my own philosophy on the matter.

3. Because of (2), the private sales of firearms in the USA are none of the government's business.
 

Unforgiven

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Aug 24, 2009 04:30 AM

Betsy Powell
Courts Bureau

The trail of guns led from Chicago to Guelph, where a year ago a coked-up man went berserk and fired shots into his neighbour's apartment and car.

Then it continued to Ottawa, where a 26-year-old man was fatally shot after answering a knock on an apartment door just before Christmas.

A month later, in Vaughan near Weston and Rutherford Rds., three residents were held hostage at gunpoint during a home invasion. Two men pleaded guilty to the crime last month.

These incidents are seemingly unrelated, except they all involved firearms that trace back to Ugur Yildiz, the former owner of a Chicago gun shop and shooting range who admits smuggling 234 firearms into Canada three years ago.

Police have recovered 40 so far.

They've been discovered in a Toronto cab, a pile of leaves, a garbage can, an abandoned house and a duffle bag behind a fridge, all linked to known drug dealers and suspected gang members in the GTA and beyond, police say.
"The havoc wreaked upon the Toronto area by Yildiz's firearms deal is not even close to being over – approximately 200 firearms are still unaccounted for, last known to be in Canada," reads the sentencing memorandum filed in United States District Court in the Northern District of Illinois, eastern division.
Yildiz, a 39-year-old naturalized U.S. citizen from Turkey, pleaded guilty in March under the Arms Export Control Act.

His sentencing hearing resumed Friday in a Chicago courtroom where U.S. prosecutors are looking to double the maximum sentence from five years to 10. The judge is to pass sentence Sept. 18. The 10-year sentence "is ... a message to our Canadian neighbours ... that we will punish conduct which jeopardizes their safety accordingly."

At one time Canadian authorities suggested they might extradite Yildiz to stand trial here. Officials last week refused to say whether that was still being considered. The maximum sentence for trafficking and importing firearms in Canada is 10 years imprisonment.

The trail of Yildiz's guns into Canada began in September 2005, when the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms revoked Yildiz's licence to sell firearms after finding his store had some 500 gun-control violations. A day before closing, Yildiz transferred the stock into his name.

The following spring, Yildiz loaded the arsenal into his minivan and drove across the Detroit-Windsor border. Records show he made the trip three times between April and June, according to the plea agreement.

Yildiz's guns – serial numbers intact and registered to him – started turning up in the GTA almost immediately. "This was particularly unusual (as) Illinois was not usually a source for illegal guns in Toronto," the memorandum says.

Canadian law enforcement started an investigation called Project Blackhawk. In June 2008, officers from a number of police forces executed dozens of search warrants in Ontario. About 40 suspects were charged with 300 drug and weapons offences.

Yildiz claimed he planned to store the guns in a Windsor storage facility before exporting them to his native Turkey.

U.S. prosecutors allege Yildiz transferred the firearms to Huy Ta, alleged to have ties to an Asian organized crime ring. Yildiz knew Ta "planned to use more than 200 guns in connection with crimes," the document says.

But Randall Barrs, a Toronto lawyer representing Ta, said there is not a "scintilla of evidence" that his client has gang ties nor that he bought Yildiz's gun cache.
"Ta's position is he never met Yildiz and Yildiz's position is he never met my guy," Barrs said last week.

Ta was convicted of illegally possessing three of Yildiz's firearms and is serving a four-year sentence after shooting up a neighbour's residence in Guelph in January 2008.

A preliminary hearing was held in July and the judge is to release her ruling Sept. 3 on whether to commit Ta to trial on firearms importing and trafficking charges.

Yildiz told U.S. authorities another Canadian man, Daniel Wasiluk, stored the firearms for him and at one point offered him $20,000 for the cache, which Yildiz said was worth $30,000. This fall in Toronto, Wasiluk has a preliminary hearing scheduled on charges of importing firearms.

"That is fiction," Wasiluk's lawyer, Christophe Preobrazenski, said last week. "He is a hard-working young man with no criminal record working in real estate. The guy (Yildiz) wanted to see some property in Windsor so he showed him around."
Sataya Vongkosy, of Richmond Hill, has pleaded guilty to illegal possession of firearms, including those registered to Yildiz.

"This case confirms what we've known all along, that guns from legal markets in the U.S. are diverted to illegal markets here," said Wendy Cukier, a professor at Ryerson University and president of the Coalition for Gun Control.

In 2006, Toronto police traced 120 of 181 guns used in crimes here back to the U.S. The following year, almost 70 per cent of 705 guns used to commit crimes in Ontario originated south of the border.

"The U.S. never hesitates to call press conferences to complain about Canada's immigration laws, or drug laws, that they say threatens their security, yet their inadequate gun laws are felt around the world," Cukier said.
 

Zzarchov

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Aug 24, 2009 04:30 AM

Betsy Powell
Courts Bureau

The trail of guns led from Chicago to Guelph, where a year ago a coked-up man went berserk and fired shots into his neighbour's apartment and car.

wait, this is impossible. Coke is banned so there is no way this guy could have gotten ahold of coke and committedd this crime.

Thats your point right? banning guns in the same way we ban drugs should make them equally impossible to stop. So this is obviously a lie, because if banning guns means criminals wouldn't have them to go on a berserk rampage then banning drugs has stopped anyone from getting all coked up and going on a rampage.

Even still the gun is the symptom, the drug fueled rampage is the problem. Unless you would have been happier if he'd committed arson in a drug fueled rampage.
 

Unforgiven

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wait, this is impossible. Coke is banned so there is no way this guy could have gotten ahold of coke and committedd this crime.

Thats your point right? banning guns in the same way we ban drugs should make them equally impossible to stop. So this is obviously a lie, because if banning guns means criminals wouldn't have them to go on a berserk rampage then banning drugs has stopped anyone from getting all coked up and going on a rampage.

Even still the gun is the symptom, the drug fueled rampage is the problem. Unless you would have been happier if he'd committed arson in a drug fueled rampage.

Sure that would be better. The point was why are so many so called upstanding law abiding gun owners so adamant that closing the gunshow loophole is an infringment of the second amendment and can not be alloed to happen. Not like any legal gun owner can't buy a gun anytime through the usual means and having to go through the back ground check and regulations that help prevent guns falling into the wrong hands.
 
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Zzarchov

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Except, guns can't be kept out of the wrong hands any more than drugs can, which are far more tightly regulated. And for the same reason, you can build both in a garage. Guns were originally build (revolvers and shotguns) with a hammer and anvil, WWII submachine guns and many of the assault rifles still used today were specifically designed to be built in a small amount of time, with unskilled labour in your average mechanics shop (so that they could be built while the large factories were being bombed).

Anyone with 2 hours of research, the internet and a garage full of tools can built such fearsome weapons as the AK-47 or the PPS-41 (which fired 900 rounds per minute and turned people into hamburger meat)

You cannot stop people who want guns, from getting guns.
 

Unforgiven

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Except, guns can't be kept out of the wrong hands any more than drugs can, which are far more tightly regulated. And for the same reason, you can build both in a garage. Guns were originally build (revolvers and shotguns) with a hammer and anvil, WWII submachine guns and many of the assault rifles still used today were specifically designed to be built in a small amount of time, with unskilled labour in your average mechanics shop (so that they could be built while the large factories were being bombed).

Anyone with 2 hours of research, the internet and a garage full of tools can built such fearsome weapons as the AK-47 or the PPS-41 (which fired 900 rounds per minute and turned people into hamburger meat)

You cannot stop people who want guns, from getting guns.

Guns aren't regulated at all if you can buy a gun from someone without showing any id or going through any type of check of any sort.

This crap about building a gun is a joke. If it was as easy as simply going to a gun show and buying a few guns out the back door people would do it. I haven't seen any news reports of people making their own guns and using them in crime.

You can't stop people from getting their hands on guns if your goal is to make sure that people can get their hands on guns.
 

#juan

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Any semi automatic weapon can be converted to fully automatic with pliers, screw drive and a file.

When I was younger and stupider I owned a Browning 22 cal. automatic rifle. This gun would sometimes fire off half the 10 round magazine with one pull of the trigger. Damn thing kept me broke buying ammunition.;-)
 

Colpy

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Sure that would be better. The point was why are so many so called upstanding law abiding gun owners so adamant that closing the gunshow loophole is an infringment of the second amendment and can not be alloed to happen. Not like any legal gun owner can't buy a gun anytime through the usual means and having to go through the back ground check and regulations that help prevent guns falling into the wrong hands.

The reason that people cry out that closing the "gun show loophole" is a violation of their Second Amendmend rights is because.....it is simply the government sticking its oversized nose into a private transaction between two people excercising their rights.......it IS a violation, as are the great majority of other gun control laws in the USA..........which is obvious to anyone that can read without bias.....which does NOT include Supreme Court justices....

AND....might I point out the unholy howl that would arise from Canadian throats if the Americans DARED suggest we adjust our Charter to better suit their tastes......

If you want to slow the US flow of guns north, you'll have to try and do it at the border....Good Luck with that......but the US Bill of Rights has not changed in 230 years.....and it isn't about to change anytime soon.

Get used to it.
 

ironsides

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When I was younger and stupider I owned a Browning 22 cal. automatic rifle. This gun would sometimes fire off half the 10 round magazine with one pull of the trigger. Damn thing kept me broke buying ammunition.;-)

I did that once, fooling around with a M1, I filed down the sear in the trigger housing group. Aside for a lot of push ups, they made me pay for it. (what did a Private know in 1959) :lol: