Gun control or not the criminals will get guns anyway. I laugh when these politicians ( McSquinty in Ontario and Miller in Toronto) keep saying we have to ban hand guns. Even if they were banned, criminals would have them anyway. What a couple of idiots.
Gun Control is Completely Useless.
- Thread starter Colpy
- Start date
What if.
I we could stop the production of weapons such as guns, mind you there is a considerable portion of shootings that are not hand guns, rifles, shotguns, ect., and we could get ride of all the existing guns, may be it would help. I personaly do not think so. We know the saying, "God made man, Smith and Weson made them equil". Like it or not there is a lot of truth there. A big bad man only restraint is reprisal. Remove the personal injury or limit it greatly, what do you think the big bad mans going to do? What of the medium bad man? They have no moral issues to even slow them down. What now. Knives, clubs, sticks, arrows, bare hands, not something I even want to think about. How about you? You see the issue always come back to us. We are the problem not the tools. There for the only solution lies in us.
I we could stop the production of weapons such as guns, mind you there is a considerable portion of shootings that are not hand guns, rifles, shotguns, ect., and we could get ride of all the existing guns, may be it would help. I personaly do not think so. We know the saying, "God made man, Smith and Weson made them equil". Like it or not there is a lot of truth there. A big bad man only restraint is reprisal. Remove the personal injury or limit it greatly, what do you think the big bad mans going to do? What of the medium bad man? They have no moral issues to even slow them down. What now. Knives, clubs, sticks, arrows, bare hands, not something I even want to think about. How about you? You see the issue always come back to us. We are the problem not the tools. There for the only solution lies in us.
Actually its been shown that it doesn't.
After a certain point, it stops influencing people. The best way to reduce crimes is to treat the cause.
And if you choose to have a gun for self defence? Why should any person have to put their safety in the hands of a 10-20 minute response time?
Drug crime could be reduced by keeping alot of prescription medication in hospitals (people do sell unused drugs) and having people show up to take their medication.
But that is an inconvenience and an attack on liberty. None the less it would probably reduce more harm to children than any ban on handguns.
If you want to put reasonable justifications on banning weapons for self defense, things like : Your a criminal, you have children in your home etc
Thats rational.
When you want to ban handguns because of a panic that everyone else is secretly a murderer just waiting to be able to legally buy a weapon and shoot up children (whom would never dare purchase one illegaly)..
That irrational.
In a free society limits are placed when you prove something is harmful, not because its an emotional issue.
Thats one of the reasons things like gay marriage are unassailable rights, because no one can prove its harmful to society in any way (because it isn't).
Likewise, no one can actually prove legal gun ownership is harmful, even of handguns.
Now how likely is it really that I will ever NEED a handgun for defense? very very unlikely, but as numbers show, still more likely then the possibility of a handgun ever harming me.
As for the possession of arms being a cornerstone of political liberty......do you really want my extensive lecture on the parallel development of private ownership of guns.....and democracy?
Suffice to say the first battle to suppress the first successful democratic movement in modern history took place when American farmers took up their rifles and fought British troops sent into the countryside to seize arms.
That is why the Yanks are garaunteed the right in their constitution. It ain't about duck hunting.
So how have those Yanks done against their current oppressive government...are the guns helping?
I think the stats Coply has produced work pretty good. I see you got some of ur own!
Probably cuz it's all just a game to them. They got too much bravado. Plus, they got this messed up concept that getting shot and living, is a badge of honour. And getting shot and dying while in "battle", makes them a hero. Seems pretty foolish to me.
I think what I was getting at in my previous post was that what crooks fear is their victim pulling out a handgun. Like if they broke into someone's house or something. I saw this doc once about hardened convicts in US prisons. These guys looked right in the camera and said they only fear one thing: "citizens with guns." As this one dude said "cops only shoot if they have to, but a citizen will shoot first outta fear for their life or property."
Hmmmm. You make an excellent point. I totally forgot about the clinically insane. Hmmmmmmmm. I actually read ur post last nite, b4 bed, and thought about this all day at work. Literally, I got no work done at all. I think I made my boss mad. And you know what? I still don't know. Hmmm... Guess I was wrong! Good job!--you spread enlightenment!
Hey! That's one of my favorite subjects to debate! I hope/think that you and I are going to have some deep debates! Kewl!
I don't think that would be a good idea. Too controversial, especially since Hitler did something like that.
You got me again! I should have anticipated this when I posted. I'm such a knucklehead! Still it would interesting to see stats "Hero kills bad guy, save the day" versus "Idiot trys to save day.... kills nun!" :lol:
Everybody's got a little contradication, maybe even hypocrisy and prejudice in them. It can be hard to hide it, esp. in a forum.
I wish. My parents abandoned me at birth, and I lived in an orphanage till I was eighteen. I often wondered if this the reason why I seem to think so differently than most. Esp on politics/philosophy. Weird huh? Now I know a lot of people have had it worse, and I shouldn't complain, but it's like my brain is screwed up or something. It's definitely been painful growing up, I dunno it, it's kinda hard to explain....:-?
You could be right, I guess....There's a lot more untrustworthy/dangerous people than me though!
You know, I pondered this one quite awhile today as well.....I probably wouldn't have the balls to do it. If I was actually getting robbed again, and was feeling really brave, I might try to get them to put their hands up or something --"Freeze!--Don't move!" But that kinda sucks too, now that I think about it. Cuz if they decide to charge me, they might the get the gun and kill me. So I guess, if you got the balls to pull the trigger, you better make sure the law agrees with, ie. self-defence.8O
Okay.... Forget the whole gun control thing, bud. Have you ever gone target shooting? It's loads of fun! It's probably a long shot that ur in my area, but if you ever are, I would be more than happy to take you to range! Weapons obviously are used for a lot of wrong reasons, but the mechanisms of guns is pretty neat. Esp. when you learn how they work, and then take them to the range and blast some off some rounds. See how good of a shot you are compared to your buddies!!!!!!:smile:
Yup. Definitely!!!!
Hmmmm...I gotta ponder this one longer. I'll get back to ya.:smile:
Anywayz, as you can see, the problem with being young like me is that others older than me have more life experience. I've accepted it, and decided to learn/seek enlightenment. I hope you and I can continue to debate and learn things from each other! Friends?:smile:
Hope to engage in debate with you soon!!!!!
George W. is still allowing the use of ballots............and one can not responsibly turn to the use of bullets until the better alternative is denied.
As well, the Supreme Court, although not exactly quick off the mark, is slowly pushing back some of the worst excesses of the Bush administrations zeal. No matter who wins, the President sworn in on Jan. 20, 2009 will also change the atmosphere for the better.
I don't happen to thing George W. sits on the right hand of Satan, the USA is still one of the most open, free societies on earth, and their political system still works.......
Isn't the deterent factor of an armed society a wonderful thing?
I would like to see the statistics for crimes (murders, assaults, robberies, etc...) with knives.
I know that there are (that actually hit the news, and most don't) about an average of two
stabbings within a 15 block radius of my house every week. Most robberies, muggings,
assault with a weapon, murders, in my neck of the woods are perpetrated with a knife.
Where is the outrage against knives??? I'm not concerned about crime with handguns as
(at least out here) gangbangers shot each other but stab everyone else.
When someone compares firearm related crimes in the USA to Canada, and adjusts them
to compensate for the difference in population, they should next do the same for knives. I
don't live in the best area, but the only ones that concern me in that I might get shot by are the
local police department, and I'm not a criminal, and no amount of gun control is going to
take their guns away (and it shouldn't). I am concerned about eventual getting stabbed 'cuz
that Sh*t just happens. The greater your exposure, the better the odds, and I walk 40-60km
every week, much of it either early in the mornings, or in the later evenings. Most of those Km's
are with my dog's and nobodies pulling that crap with my dogs around, but I don't always have
the dogs with me. So again, "Where is the outrage against knives???"
I know that there are (that actually hit the news, and most don't) about an average of two
stabbings within a 15 block radius of my house every week. Most robberies, muggings,
assault with a weapon, murders, in my neck of the woods are perpetrated with a knife.
Where is the outrage against knives??? I'm not concerned about crime with handguns as
(at least out here) gangbangers shot each other but stab everyone else.
When someone compares firearm related crimes in the USA to Canada, and adjusts them
to compensate for the difference in population, they should next do the same for knives. I
don't live in the best area, but the only ones that concern me in that I might get shot by are the
local police department, and I'm not a criminal, and no amount of gun control is going to
take their guns away (and it shouldn't). I am concerned about eventual getting stabbed 'cuz
that Sh*t just happens. The greater your exposure, the better the odds, and I walk 40-60km
every week, much of it either early in the mornings, or in the later evenings. Most of those Km's
are with my dog's and nobodies pulling that crap with my dogs around, but I don't always have
the dogs with me. So again, "Where is the outrage against knives???"
Sometimes it's difficult to judge the sincerity of a poster, but I believe I'll give you the benifit of the doubt and agree with you, as your apparent capacity for reflection and self analysis has impressed me...
Maybe so...
Hmmm...data like that may be hard to come by...governments that support gun ownership don't like to have dirty little statistics like that...but I'll see what I can come up with...
That's very sad...you should consider writing an autobiography...I know I'd buy it...
...or download it as an e-book...
Possibly...
Maybe some self-defense courses where you could learn how to disarm your assailants would be safer for all of us...
I was in the Canadian Armed Forces for 9 years where I fired everything from a browning 9mm to a 155mm Howitzer...and truth be told, I preferred the Howitzer hands down...
I don't see why not...
Wow, maybe you should move...
I'm sorry, that might have sounded a little insensitive, Ron, but I hadn't realized that Regina had become such a den of sin and iniquity...It's been awhile since I've been out that way...
I, myself, generally avoid most issues...and I'm not going anywhere. I don't know if the knife
issue is a prairie phenomenon or whether it's a larger issue that may tie back to Canada's very
tight handgun laws. Proportionally, the USA may have more gun crime than Canada but does
Canada have proportionally much more knife related crime than the USA? If so, are these two
issues related? I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the Gun Control debate.
If I was in a position to relocate to a walled community where the average home price was in the
neighborhood of $400,000 then the knife issue would be something that happens elsewhere, but
that's not the case and I'm too stubborn and pigheaded to move over something like that anyway.
Ultimately, we each have only ourselves to rely on and I've come up with my own solution
that seems to work for me. 6ft chain link with lots of signs, and 20-30 assorted cattle bones salting
the fence line, and the dogs behind that. I think the knife issue is much more relevant but the gun
issue is politically sexier for a politician to fear monger with.
issue is a prairie phenomenon or whether it's a larger issue that may tie back to Canada's very
tight handgun laws. Proportionally, the USA may have more gun crime than Canada but does
Canada have proportionally much more knife related crime than the USA? If so, are these two
issues related? I was just trying to put a bit of perspective on the Gun Control debate.
If I was in a position to relocate to a walled community where the average home price was in the
neighborhood of $400,000 then the knife issue would be something that happens elsewhere, but
that's not the case and I'm too stubborn and pigheaded to move over something like that anyway.
Ultimately, we each have only ourselves to rely on and I've come up with my own solution
that seems to work for me. 6ft chain link with lots of signs, and 20-30 assorted cattle bones salting
the fence line, and the dogs behind that. I think the knife issue is much more relevant but the gun
issue is politically sexier for a politician to fear monger with.
Agreed...
Ontario Emergency Department Statistics -- Knives vs. Guns
These stats indicate that while knife assaults are more prevalent, they result in less severe injuries, and far less likely to be lethal...
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Thats because knife injuries include accidental (ie unknown) such as
"I cut my finger chopping carrots"
or more commonly still
"I was trying to open the packaging when the knife slipped".
An intentional knife wound can actually be more deadly than a bullet do the ability to slice.
"I cut my finger chopping carrots"
or more commonly still
"I was trying to open the packaging when the knife slipped".
An intentional knife wound can actually be more deadly than a bullet do the ability to slice.
Ah....BB guns and air rifles are not what I consider firearms........however, there are reasonably low-powered rimfire rifle that can inflict very serious injuries.....or very slight injuries, depending on the hit area.
Suffice to say I know hundreds of shooters, as a former president of a local gun club, as a former trainer for an armoured car company, as a former instructer for the federal firearms safety course, as a collector, hunter and target shooter.
In my 54 years, I have known one person killed with a firearm, that was in the mid-70s, and he was shot dead during a dope deal......the guy that supposedly had shot him just was found not guilty, after serving decades in jail.....anyone watch W-5? I knew those guys, which says very little about my good sense when I was a young man........
I know nobody else that has ever been harmed, shot, wounded, hurt in any way with a firearm......if you don't count scope-moon.
(Scope moon is when you fire a scoped, high powered rifle from the bench, but you have your face too close to the scope, so when the rifle recoils, you get a lovely cresent cut over the eye.......and laughter and derision from your buddies)Shooting is one of the safest past times going.........
Meanwhile, people die on ATVs by the dozen. Oddly, I don't know anyone that regularly rides one of those damn things that hasn't been hurt on it.......
But they want to ban guns. Go figure.
Nor would I, but the last set of stats were to give an indication of knife-assault related injuries...the previous stats did not include BB or pellet guns...
Yes, I grew up in a rural area, and had firearms around all the time as well...I know of only a few accidents, and only a small handful of suicides involving firearms...
Don't get me wrong, I have no qualms about people using rifles for hunting, as I've pushed some bush myself back in the day...but just because I grew up in that environment, doesn't mean that I would want every asshole I meet packing a Deagle no matter how much training they've had...
I've never seen any indication that stricter firearms laws infringe upon any freedom, and it's a huge stretch of the imagination to assert that the reason for these laws is to prevent the populace from rising up against the government...who dreamed up that nugget?
I know nobody else that has ever been harmed, shot, wounded, hurt in any way with a firearm......if you don't count scope-moon.
How many times did that happen to you...
Just askin'...
I've never been seriously hurt fishing...except that time a pike muckled onto my fingertips...that stung a little...8O
...but you're advocating that idiot ATV owners should also be idiot firearm owners...I see no sense in that logic...
I know that...I only raised that issue as an example of the counter side to idiotic gun control. There's lots of idiotic politicians who do things the public seem to love, even when the policies are worthless...
They infringe on the right to self-defense, the right to property, the right to keep and bear arms....in general. The current Canadian Firearms Act infringes on the right to be secure from unreasonable search, the right to remain silent, the right to be presumed innocent, and is an intrusion on the right to privacy.....look a little harder.
As for the nugget.....try Anglo-Saxon tradition, the nobles that forced John to sign the Magna Carta in 1215, John Locke, the guys that penned the English Bill of Rights, William Blackstone, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and the rest of the guys that wrote the US Bill of Rights, and on and on and on.......
The entire idea that you don't have a right to keep and bear arms is an indication of the triumph of the idea of "collective rights" as opposed to "individual rights". Unfortunately, collective rights usually wind up being no rights at all.......just an excuse for the powerful to eliminate the rights of the individual.....as so neatly shown by the firearms act......
How many times did that happen to you...
Just askin'...
Ahem....twice.
Actually alot of people die fishing, or more accurately alot of people drown while fishing and drinking.