The answer is simple "justice delayed is justice denied" and everyone knows full well if he was captured alive, the charade would continue for years as it did with Saddam at huge expense to the taxpayer.
Gaddafi captured as he fled Sirte
- Thread starter Locutus
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The answer is simple "justice delayed is justice denied" and everyone knows full well if he was captured alive, the charade would continue for years as it did with Saddam at huge expense to the taxpayer.
---Earth as one.
absolutely SPOT ON. We MUST at all costs Never descend to their level. but afraid it is too late. This was cold blooded MURDER when he could have been captured alive and brought to a proper court of justice. But it seems no one wanted that ......as the US in particular would find that too risky..........considering it was not all that long ago that Gadhaffi was an american ALLY.
oh how fickle the americans are. one day they are your alli and the next you are targetted for assassination.
anyone still have to ask why the terrorists target the US ??? That has to be the dumbest question of the century.
Did you miss the Saddam feast, morbid is a gentle description of the attitude? 9/11 is another feast for them, even the lies that led to Iraq being invaded brings a 'so what' attitude even though more than 1M of their civilians have been killed. Blood-lust for Iran also, That makes this group more 'amazing' than 'interesting'. Good think they are confined to a chat room they would be a real danger if they actually had any real influence in the world.
sorry, THAT is NO excuse.SO what if it takes time. Time that could be used to learn a lot about what makes a person like that tic as well as gather information that would be of value for other situations . It would take very little to apply that kind of "un logic" to other situations of the law. Either we respect the law & are civilized or we are barbarians.
gee, wouldn't it be grand if things devolved to this kind of thinking in the US and instead of courts......they just executed the accused to save time and money.
You can't pick and choose about what laws are followed and when...... One is either law abiding or one is not.
A simple question:
What is the purpose of a trial? I mean in a just society.....what exactly is the purpose of a trial????
The answer is simple:
to establish guilt and to see that a fair sentence is handed down.
Is that not correct??
In cases of mad despots that have ruled with an iron fist and murderous intent, guilt is established simply by the knowledge of that person's power, and the state of that society.
And in the case of mass murder, a sentence of death is the only suitable solution.
Justice was done.
A trial would be senseless.
As Winston Churchill wanted to do in Germany after World War two: Simply shoot the very top group out of hand, and get on with rebuilding.
Who cares what makes a guy like that tick? Best just to stop his clock. :smile: You seem to be a hell of a lot more gung ho about this than any of his subjects. :lol:
You ain't kidding. Remember the lustful joy when the bodies of SH sons were displayed by the USG as "evidence" of their demise.??
and now Hillary LAUGHS when she is told of the gruesome MURDER. what kind of society are we living in??? If that is an example for the world........the world is in sorry trouble ..........(well, it is anyhow.....sadly)
I am gung ho about doing what is LEGAL , MORAL, ETHICAL and HUMANE. If his subjects are rejoicing at this death.....fine. that is them. Let the euphoria wear off. They might realize how ugly this event really is. IF he had been brought to a court of law......and sentenced to an execution......he would have died anyhow.
WE SHOULD care about how a person like that "ticks" otherwise we will continue to stay in the dark ages of mental processes of psychopathy.
so why are we bothering with a trial for conrad Murray?? It is reasonable to conclude that he was neglegent , left the room when he should not have, gave a drug he should not have, did not have any back systems or emergency equipment.....etc etc.....
Heck.......the "evidence" is there for all to see.......so why waste time and money on this and just send him to jail or lynch him???
Sorry........one cannot pick and choose who the law applies to ....... as the law must remain intact and followed by all. (IF one wants to claim civility & humanity ) Just because Gadhaffi commited crimes of humanity .......does not mean we have to lower ourselves to his level.
the purpose of a trial is a lot more than simply establishing "guilty " or NOT guilty. And no a trail would NOT have been senseless. That is what civilized people do when they arrest a criminal.
the tricky thing of course is that the politicians know what would have come out in a trial. Lots of information about the time frame when Gadhaffi was an american ally. You forget that the USG likes its dictators .......as long as they comply with the US wishes. and he did for some time.
So lets not be naive and say this is about time, money wastage. It is a politically based MURDER. (regardless of who did the shooting)
Maybe instead of blasting folk on a forum who can no more give them bad ol' rebels whut fer on a forum than you can, you should book passage to Libya and go straighten 'em all out.
I'm not just sure what Conrad Murray and Mohammar Kadaffy have in common. Conrad Murray wasn't engaged in war.
Well, if I had to give one name it would be Douglas Engelbart but I think that is entirely too simplistic
I take serious objection that you think execution by the state is anyway more ethical, moral or humane. A state execution comes with the psychological torture of waiting for the big day. Gaddafi went through a few moments of fear, some pain, some smacking around and then he was dead. Just as dead as if the state did it.
He used his life to sow violence and death and so he got his reaping when his countrymen tore him apart.
WE SHOULD care about what happens next in Libya and the Middle East.
funny how little interest there was in Libya until "NATO" decided to intervene and assist the rebels. All of a sudden "we" care about what happens there. There is a certain stench of hypocricy in all this.
No where did I sanction or support executions...........I just said that it probably would happen .(big difference. ) Just as it happens in the US where the death penalty is alive and well.
and you consider his getting a" reaping" that way true Justice?? What kind of example is this to the new and ???improved Libya ?? Will it have an influence on how they now set up their legal system?? Will tearing apart a despot like savage dogs be on the list of penalties for a criminal??
If folks like that kind of world.....then they have it. We are seeing it in living Utube videos.
Before the uprising in Libya .......were you all gung ho in caring about what happens there?? Did it even cross your mind??? Or did the rebels bring it to your conscious awareness level and then you joined the bandwagon........??
what they have in common is that they broke the law. Different laws.....granted...but break it they did. People died as a result of it.
what they have in common is the importance of due process of the law. and that we must never allow the law to be taken into a raging group or one person for action. IF we are to be a law abiding society.....then the laws apply to everyone. And everyone deserves their day in court.
what seems to be missing in all this is: The so called "west" has had THREE exellent opportunities to demonstrate to the world how a free , democratic and law abiding nation. or citizenship deals with criminals. All kinds of criminals. Ok......a feeble attempt was made in a sort of trial for SH. At least some semblance of legal pretense existed there.
But OBL was a targetted assassination........ and totally a pre meditated murder of an aging and ill man who broke the law by orchestrating and supporting terrorist acts.
Given the emotional componant about this guy that has been punctuated by the media over and over again.......it would have been a perfect example to show the lesser developed nations how the law works in civilization and that humanitarian principles are followed regardless of how horrific the crimes committed.
Same with this current situation.
But two parties wanted these men dead......the americans wanted OBLS blood , guts and torturous death in no uncertain terms.
The gang the killed Gadhaffi (under the guidance and support of the west ) behaved like savage animals...... and yet are considered "heros" by some. (many, it seems)
How can anyone with a human DNA , even consider that this conduct makes sense???
The topic is a lot larger than the slaughter of a human being. Sure he was a decrepit one, with delusions of might and grandeur.....but we had better not forget that the US (west) assisted in making him what he was by supporting him when it suited them. He would never have believed that the US would turn against him..... as it has let him get away with all the atrocities he committed and not said a thing........silently giving him their ok.
If you support the barbarism that took place......just say so. No need to divert into irrelavant commentary.
YOU didn't care. Because the 6 o'clock news never told you that it was the cause of the moment. WE DID care. We always wanted the dictators around the world removed and we still do. Freedom is a God-given right and it's up to freedom loving nations to defend that conviction for all humans.
No I don't, but at least it's some justice.
You can rest assured that this event won't be the much influence for the new legal system. Most likely Islam will be. (sharia law)
Now your just being ridiculous. In the new legal system the death penalty method could end up being beheading by sword. Not much better than being beat to death.
If Ghaddafi had been hunted down by US ground forces he'd probably still be alive and complaining about mistreatment and his violated rights. He could've put a stop to the bloodshed by stepping down earlier this year. Those who captured him were third and fourth generation victims of his. And they probably lost many good friends and family throughout his selfish final resistance. He'd be alive if he had stepped down when the writing was on the wall. He chose to die.
BTW, word has it that he might be the richest man on the planet, with an accumulated personal wealth of 200 billion. Looks like he raped and pillaged the country for too long.
BTW, word has it that he might be the richest man on the planet, with an accumulated personal wealth of 200 billion. Looks like he raped and pillaged the country for too long.
So if they choose a certain legal system based on some archaic religious belief system.........that is their choice. Now that the hornets' nest has been busted........ it is up to them to design what they want. But will that happen without the "west" interfering and telling them what to do.?? Who knows......as the world of poltics is much uglier and dirtier than any of us imagine.
We have NO right to do regime changes in other nations. That is illegal . end of story. Even diddle dumb bush said the same. He did not practice it.......but he said it.
Freedom is NOT a "god' given right. It is a human right . One that humanity has defined as a better way for societies to live In fact freedom is a relatively new concept in historical standards. It has evolved as mans thinking and ideas evolved.
well, it seems the US had no problem supporting him and considering him an ally when it suited it. They had to have known what he was doing and let him do it anyhow.
Suspect the reason the US got NATO to move on this is because the rebels were gaining momentum......and stood a good chance of taking over and getting rid of Gadhaffi. If that had happened........then the US support of him would have been made more public and in more detail.
My own theory is that the reason he did not step down is two fold. : his own arrogance and belief in his own omnipotence. AND the fact he did not believe the US would turn on him when they had been allies. He felt betrayed. and angry.
We have NO right to do regime changes in other nations. That is illegal . end of story. Even diddle dumb bush said the same. He did not practice it.......but he said it.
Freedom is NOT a "god' given right. It is a human right . One that humanity has defined as a better way for societies to live In fact freedom is a relatively new concept in historical standards. It has evolved as mans thinking and ideas evolved.
well, it seems the US had no problem supporting him and considering him an ally when it suited it. They had to have known what he was doing and let him do it anyhow.
Suspect the reason the US got NATO to move on this is because the rebels were gaining momentum......and stood a good chance of taking over and getting rid of Gadhaffi. If that had happened........then the US support of him would have been made more public and in more detail.
My own theory is that the reason he did not step down is two fold. : his own arrogance and belief in his own omnipotence. AND the fact he did not believe the US would turn on him when they had been allies. He felt betrayed. and angry.
;b'But if he was indeed killed by his captors, it will cast doubt on the promises by Libya's new rulers to respect human rights and prevent reprisals. It would also embarrass Western governments which gave their wholehearted backing to the NTC.[/b]
MISSING PIECE
The dramatic minutes leading up to Gaddafi's death were chaotic, violent and gruesome -- as testified by the grainy mobile phone footage seen by the world of the former leader, bloodied and dazed, being dragged along by NTC fighters.
What is not captured in the footage, and is missing from accounts of the events given by fighters who were there, is how he died and who killed him
Clues to Gaddafi's death concealed from public view - Yahoo! News
Human rights violations?? I should think so.
MISSING PIECE
The dramatic minutes leading up to Gaddafi's death were chaotic, violent and gruesome -- as testified by the grainy mobile phone footage seen by the world of the former leader, bloodied and dazed, being dragged along by NTC fighters.
What is not captured in the footage, and is missing from accounts of the events given by fighters who were there, is how he died and who killed him
Clues to Gaddafi's death concealed from public view - Yahoo! News
Human rights violations?? I should think so.
An archaic religious belief system that ONCE AGAIN is TYRANNICAL and DENIES FREEDOM. You can't even fly a kite, kick a soccer ball, have a drink, play cards, or play music let alone criticize your government or choose a religion (or freedom from it!) under the strictest interpretations of sharia law!!!
Do you see the problem when a person such as yourself doesn't believe in freedom being an INALIENABLE right? You'd shrug off the fact that others may have to live in slavery, probably because you take your own freedom for granted.
Yes we do. If everyone had your attitude we would all be enslaved right now. I wouldn't have freedom and neither would you.
It's not a "god" given right, it's a God given right. You don't believe in God so you couldn't possibly admit your freedom comes from him. Don't worry, I understand.
So what do you say when man's thinking and ideas "evolve" and tell you: OceanBreeze! You cannot have freedom of speech anymore. And you can't choose to be secular. We have found the truth and a new world system, "such-and-such" is god and you must SUBMIT to his glory. What do you say then? Man's thinking and ideas have "evolved" and everyone's against you because you're secular.
I'll tell you what you would do. You would have a strong moral objection to your rights being taken away because you would feel the absolute moral code that God put inside of you being violated. You would scream bloody murder.
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