For Justin Trudeau

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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A wee bit of a difference there... BTW, it's + 3 zeros






That's my point; I'm saying that there is too much they can't afford.... So, in effect, the question isn't what can they afford, but what can they cut-out in order to live within their means.

The simple answer is lots of waste and bureaucracy but that do much for progress. How about non/under productive land and water that could be developed? I see thousands of acres in Oregon alone that could be used for growing spuds. We hear a lot about food shortage but what's being done about it? What about producing more fish to feed people? I'm sure there's a market for this stuff somewhere in the world. Maybe Somalia and Ethiopia for starters.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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That's my point; I'm saying that there is too much they can't afford.... So, in effect, the question isn't what can they afford, but what can they cut-out in order to live within their means.

Non-financed wars and tax cuts would be a wise start.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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The simple answer is lots of waste and bureaucracy but that do much for progress. How about non/under productive land and water that could be developed? I see thousands of acres in Oregon alone that could be used for growing spuds. We hear a lot about food shortage but what's being done about it? What about producing more fish to feed people? I'm sure there's a market for this stuff somewhere in the world. Maybe Somalia and Ethiopia for starters.

I don't know if it's a shortage of food issue as much as it's a shortage of work in order to purchase food issue
.

Non-financed wars and tax cuts would be a wise start.


I'm right there with you on the cost of war deal; but taxes are another issue... Right now it looks like the Dems want to increase taxes as opposed to cut them; but this is also all relative to the overall scenario of over 1/2 the working population not paying fed income taxes at all.

You can only go to the well so many times before it dries up
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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I'm right there with you on the cost of war deal; but taxes are another issue... Right now it looks like the Dems want to increase taxes as opposed to cut them; but this is also all relative to the overall scenario of over 1/2 the working population not paying fed income taxes at all.

You can only go to the well so many times before it dries up

Before Bush was elected, the American public purse was doing great. You couple the loss in revenue from those unfunded tax cuts, with the financial meltdown which compounded revenue loss, and the half-measure borrowed money to keep the US economy from tanking further and that gets the US to the point it is in now.

To be frank, the US can afford more debt...they aren't in the same situation as Greece and until the debt ceiling fiasco there was never a doubt that the US wouldn't be able to pay it's debt. That's why US bonds are still a safe place to put money. They're paying about $1.64 a year on $100 borrowed in 10 year Treasury notes. A tad better than under a mattress...

They ought to re-build more of their infrastructure that is crumbling around them. Get construction booming again and they'll be laughing. The single largest part of their deficit comes from the downturn in the economy.
 

JLM

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People keep talking about the Bush debt as if the muddle east and 9/11 had nothing to do with it.......

Well, exactly! How many $trillions did 9/11 cost and how was it Bush's fault?

I don't know if it's a shortage of food issue as much as it's a shortage of work in order to purchase food issue
.

I can't see how there can be a shortage of work- what about some "house keeping" on the planet? We know the soil is depleted in some countries like Somalia and others in Africa. As far as money shortage goes, it's little wonder, how many $billion C.E.O.s are sitting around with their finger up their ***? I say until this mess is straightened out there has to be some wage controls and nobody gets a dime for doing nothing!
 

Tonington

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People keep talking about the Bush debt as if the muddle east and 9/11 had nothing to do with it.......

Umm, three posts before yours...unfinanced wars. If that wasn't clear, that's the War on Terror. Iraq, Afghanistan...
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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How the hell did the brainless wonders manage to turn a thread about Liberal Party Leader hopeful, Justin Trudeau, into a ANOTHER fu cking thread about obama? :roll:
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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How the hell did the brainless wonders manage to turn a thread about Liberal Party Leader hopeful, Justin Trudeau, into a ANOTHER fu cking thread about obama? :roll:
They ran out of dirt to throw at Justin. It really wouldn't matter who the Liberals elect, the cons will just find another mud pile to grab from.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Trudeau's political opponents dismiss him as all fluff and no substance. After the factory tour in Hawkesbury, a 15-minute drive east of here, Trudeau went to a senior citizens home where a supporter asked what he and his team were going to do to counter attacks that he's a political airhead.
The short answer from Trudeau: Not a thing.
"It's a question I haven't spent a lot of time worrying about," Trudeau replied.

Which is THE best answer to give, and THE best thing to do.

And why should he? He doesn't have to prove he can win. Consider this: In 2007, he won a hard-fought battle to win the Liberal nomination in Papineau. The Liberal establishment was cool, at best, and hostile, at worst, to the idea of Trudeau becoming an MP.
Having secured the nomination, Trudeau then proceeded to knock off a popular incumbent Bloc Quebecois in the 2008 general election. Then, in 2011, when the Orange Wave was sweeping Quebec, the blue-collar, slightly sovereignist Papineau riding should have been the first to jump on Jack Layton's bandwagon. Instead, Trudeau increased his margin of victory while many other Liberals were swamped and defeated.
Notably, Marc Garneau, seen as the best hope to prevent Trudeau from becoming leader, lost in the 2006 general election to a BQ candidate in a suburban Montreal riding that should have been much easier to win than the one Trudeau picked.
After 2006, Garneau inherited Westmount-Ville Marie, a downtown Montreal riding that has been Liberal for just about forever. And he only took that inheritance - unopposed - after threatening to walk out on the Liberals unless they gave him that safe seat.
In the next general election, the Liberals will have to scrap and fight for every seat they can get. There is nothing in the otherwise impressive resume of Garneau to show he can win a tough political fight. But look past the hairdo and the flashy smile, and you'll see a successful political street fighter in Justin Trudeau.


and the above is the REAL reason the mindless conservative drones are worried about Justin. He has proven, on more than one occasion, that he CAN unite the people behind him and win in situations that were considered un-winnable.
 

Tonington

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Yes, absolutely.....But always mentioned in a way to project as something He started?

Whom does the buck stop with? Are we going to give Obama a pass now on the spending in Washington for the past 4 years? I think not.
 

gerryh

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Nov 21, 2004
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Whom does the buck stop with? Are we going to give Obama a pass now on the spending in Washington for the past 4 years? I think not.


Why should "WE" do anything? He's not "president" of Canada. "WE" have no fu cking say in what he does or doesn't do.

Take it to one of the obama threads.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Some things, even traumatic, should be seen, but no worries.

Then people can google it in their own free time, not just have it plastered all over their screen at work during lunch or at home without warning (none in the post and none in the thread title)

Seeing gore and disturbing images or video doesn't phase me much.... but I don't want to be eating my lunch at work, reading through the forums for something interesting, and then have something graphic tossed up on my screen with co-workers walking by.

I don't need to see images or videos of female genital mutilations to know it is wrong... and I don't need you shoving it in my face because you think you know better than everybody else.

At the same time, I don't need a bunch of lunatics hanging out along a busy street during morning and afternoon rush hour & holding up posters of aborted fetuses and crap when children are on school buses going to and from school.... I and everybody else don't need people like that.... people like you, shoving your crap in our faces because you think you're better than everybody else with your views.

Use your damn head and think next time.
 

wulfie68

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Mar 29, 2009
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Which is THE best answer to give, and THE best thing to do.

I'll agree but that really doesn't prove much. He needs to do something, away from this issue to answer the challenge that he is anything other than a lightweight outside of Quebec, and especially Montreal.

...and the above is the REAL reason the mindless conservative drones are worried about Justin. He has proven, on more than one occasion, that he CAN unite the people behind him and win in situations that were considered un-winnable.

Please illustrate these "un-winnable" situations again. I'll give him his due: he ran in some tough campaigning in Quebec and persevered... but at the same time, he was running in Quebec, and is the son of one of the most Quebec-centric PMs ever. He ignites the fires of Liberals who long for a return to the heady days of "Trudeau-mania" but who else has he shown he inspires? He pretty much has said the same damned thing as his old man, in that he doesn't give a damn about any place west of the Ontario-Manitoba border, which means he is flying against the primary economic engine in the country, and his statements bring back the ghosts of a lot of the national unity issues that his father created.

I'll re-admit my bias: I hated P.E.T., growing up in the Alberta oilpatch during the NEP days, and seeing the effects of his policies (lost jobs, businesses and homes)on friends and family. The last thing I would ever support would be a return to that type of leadership. I probably won't vote Liberal anyway, but Justin would have to prove himself a lot different than his old man to even show up on my radar.
 

captain morgan

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Before Bush was elected, the American public purse was doing great. You couple the loss in revenue from those unfunded tax cuts, with the financial meltdown which compounded revenue loss, and the half-measure borrowed money to keep the US economy from tanking further and that gets the US to the point it is in now.

I see your point, but the issue is not as cut and dry as that and as far as the rest of my post is concerned; this is not a 'blame game' position... It is what it is and nothing more

The Bush tax cuts came at a time when the economy was very strong, and in part, that strength is based on Bush creating (or preserving) a domestic investment climate that encouraged reinvestment into the USA... That can be seen in the unemployment #'s and the increasing avg wages that were experienced.

The housing crisis, that underpinned the financial crisis was felt most severely in those nations that had lax borrowing rules - especially at the consumer level (think NINJA mortgages)... Those regulations were/are a function of multiple administrations across both parties going all the way back to Jimmy Carter.. The message being, the root of the problem is not at the feet of Bush, although in hind-sight, he may have amplified the effect.

The underlying message is that the USA has a situation right now that has fewer solutions available and based on the size of their debt, taking on more loans is becoming less and less realistic (read: who is willing to lend them money these days?)


To be frank, the US can afford more debt...they aren't in the same situation as Greece and until the debt ceiling fiasco there was never a doubt that the US wouldn't be able to pay it's debt. That's why US bonds are still a safe place to put money. They're paying about $1.64 a year on $100 borrowed in 10 year Treasury notes. A tad better than under a mattress...

I'm not saying that US Bonds are not safe, but to assume that they are is somewhat of an illusion.

Take this recent event for example.. The German gvt released a bond issue that guaranteed the return of the capital at par value... No interest or return on investment, just to return the money dollar-for-dollar... And that is an offering from a nation that is considered to be 'strong' in the relative measure of global economics.

Also, look at the relationship between gold and the greenback... Each time that the price of an ounce of gold increases, it is often accompanied by a devaluation in the US dollar. Further, one of the strengths of the greenback is that it is one of the few currencies that has enough actual cash in circulation to support global trade... That is certainly a strength, however, there does come a point where there is too much and you transform your currency into a virtual peso.

They ought to re-build more of their infrastructure that is crumbling around them. Get construction booming again and they'll be laughing. The single largest part of their deficit comes from the downturn in the economy.

That's an excellent idea, but it requires borrowed money to do so.... Where will that money come from?

How the hell did the brainless wonders manage to turn a thread about Liberal Party Leader hopeful, Justin Trudeau, into a ANOTHER fu cking thread about obama? :roll:

Because Trudeau has much in common with Obama; namely, no real life experience and he's prepared to tinker with an entire national economy in order to pimp for votes

and the above is the REAL reason the mindless conservative drones are worried about Justin. He has proven, on more than one occasion, that he CAN unite the people behind him and win in situations that were considered un-winnable.

I'm not worried about Trudeau as much as I'm worried about the mindless drones that would actually support this pretender to the throne.

I can't see how there can be a shortage of work- what about some "house keeping" on the planet? We know the soil is depleted in some countries like Somalia and others in Africa. As far as money shortage goes, it's little wonder, how many $billion C.E.O.s are sitting around with their finger up their ***? I say until this mess is straightened out there has to be some wage controls and nobody gets a dime for doing nothing!

Go look at the unemployment figures and then take another look at the same figures that include the # of people that have stopped looking.

In the end, over 50% of the working population in the US don't pay federal income taxes... That alone should set off the red lights.
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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I see your point, but the issue is not as cut and dry as that and as far as the rest of my post is concerned; this is not a 'blame game' position... It is what it is and nothing more

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In the end, over 50% of the working population in the US don't pay federal income taxes... That alone should set off the red lights.
You just posted all that to piss off gerry, didn't you?

The world economy is being engineered to fail. There is nothing anybody, especially governments, can do to prevent it. It is out of their control. Those that control the money want a one world currency. Politicians are just there to deflect your attention from the real culprits.
 

captain morgan

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You just posted all that to piss off gerry, didn't you?

I believe it to be a fair representation of reality Cliffy... I did not intend that to represent a partisan shot at anyone.

The world economy is being engineered to fail. There is nothing anybody, especially governments, can do to prevent it. It is out of their control. Those that control the money want a one world currency. Politicians are just there to deflect your attention from the real culprits.

You have mentioned this before.. It's your opinion - as it stands, I don't hold the same opinion... I just don't see it