Environmental Activism Stagnating Our Economy

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,800
462
83
Penticton, BC
There was also a dip in production as many oilsands producers shut down during the Ft. McMurray fires, the Syncrude Site and Suncor Base both went to zero, and they are two of the bigger producers up there. Going from 2.5 million bb/d to a fraction of that is going to have an effect on figures for the year.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
21,513
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Minnesota: Gopher State
Debt is meaningless.

Just look at Trump's plan to increase the US debt by 5x.



Delusional right wingers always hated when Obama increased the debt (and he did so only because Republicans refused to end foreign tax shelters). Today they fail to object to Trump's proposed increasing of the debt. Double standards much, again ???
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
Wishful thinking. For the most part environmentalists, while well-meaning, haven't thought the issue through. The conundrum here is that we desperately need the money that the oil and gas industry can put on the table in order to successfully ween the country off the oil and gas industry. Alternatives to the burning of fossil fuels are no where near widely available enough to support the shutdown of the oilsands, which is what all the chanting and drumming is asking for. It's short sighted and irresponsible and is already causing more trouble than it's preventing.


The problem is that right now an economic boost from oil and gas is 100% dependent on the world price for oil. If it stays where it is then there will be no economic boost. However, there is a way around this and that is to invest in green energy. We are going to have to do this eventually so why not start now and put to work some of those who have lost their jobs due to the drop in oil prices?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
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RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
The problem is that right now an economic boost from oil and gas is 100% dependent on the world price for oil. If it stays where it is then there will be no economic boost. However, there is a way around this and that is to invest in green energy. We are going to have to do this eventually so why not start now and put to work some of those who have lost their jobs due to the drop in oil prices?

You're very youmg. The way arround it is to eliminate the competition. War is the economy. Economic primer. Did you ever go to school?


Fukkin public educated , why? cuz they believe better after a bit of instruction, it's just an impression. Don't bother to reply. I can read.
 

Danbones

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 23, 2015
24,505
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there is a away around the low price of oil due to the fact we are drowning in the stuff
its called cutting back production

Oil Prices Spike As OPEC Agrees To Cut Production
...OPEC has agreed to cut oil production--the first time it's done so in nearly a decade...
Forbes Welcome

oh....look:
nothing like a goods ol fashioned artificial (enron) type shortage to justify jacking it to the peeps
...and, so much for ($)reen...lol...energy...those economies are like spain's...non existant.
 
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Angstrom

Hall of Fame Member
May 8, 2011
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Wishful thinking. For the most part environmentalists, while well-meaning, haven't thought the issue through. The conundrum here is that we desperately need the money that the oil and gas industry can put on the table in order to successfully ween the country off the oil and gas industry. Alternatives to the burning of fossil fuels are no where near widely available enough to support the shutdown of the oilsands, which is what all the chanting and drumming is asking for. It's short sighted and irresponsible and is already causing more trouble than it's preventing.

You're trying to talk sense to a retard. Don't waste you're time :laughing3:
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,800
462
83
Penticton, BC
The problem is that right now an economic boost from oil and gas is 100% dependent on the world price for oil. If it stays where it is then there will be no economic boost. However, there is a way around this and that is to invest in green energy. We are going to have to do this eventually so why not start now and put to work some of those who have lost their jobs due to the drop in oil prices?

Most of the major players in the oilsands have reduced their production costs to $30/bbl or less. The effort now is to replace the lost profits from low price with increased profits from higher output. China will take every drop we can get to Vancouver, and the US, the biggest consumer of refined petroleum products on the planet by far, would be happy to take more as evidenced by continued efforts to increase pipeline capacity to the south.

I agree that a greener economy should be high on our agenda, but the reality is that we are still a lot of R&D away from the point of actually replacing fossil fuels in a big way. It's coming to be sure, the necessity of it is plain, but we need to keep our economy on a roll to get there. At this point the easiest and quickest and most efficient way to get there is to continue our program of natural resource exploitation.

You're trying to talk sense to a retard. Don't waste you're time :laughing3:

I wouldn't say he's a retard, just that he is so focused on his own agenda that he sees any form of compromise as defeat. That's not an uncommon stance on either side of the fence, but it is holding us back from an efficient solution, and that is to use the financial benefits available from oil & gas exploitation to help ween us off our fossil fuel dependence. This has to come from our governments, because it's just silly to expect the corporate sector to work towards their own doom.
 

Nick Danger

Council Member
Jul 21, 2013
1,800
462
83
Penticton, BC
Hehe, if I ignored everyone here who fits that definition of "idiot" this would be a pretty boring site.

Trouble is that too many see this whole thing as an "all-or-nothing" issue, when the word of the day should really be "compromise". We have the oil, the infrastructure and the markets are in place although they could benefit from some expansion there. Our national contribution to GHG emissions is pretty small, 1.6% of the global total last time I checked. We can afford to exploit our oil & gas reserves for a little longer without being a major contributor to the global problem, in fact things like the Alberta NDP's emissions cap on oilsands operations and yes, increasing carbon taxation, will help keep us in line with efforts to reduce overall emissions.

For me it's a given that we have to get away from the burning of fossil fuels, but I also see it as unrealistic to think that we can make it happen in the short term. Environmental activism resisting just about every effort to exploit natural resources is doing more harm than good in that it is hobbling efforts to gets us back to a robust economic position where the money to push forward on the green front has to come from.
 

HeyBill

New Member
Nov 26, 2016
28
0
1
Crescent Park Lodge
Hehe, if I ignored everyone here who fits that definition of "idiot" this would be a pretty boring site.

Trouble is that too many see this whole thing as an "all-or-nothing" issue, when the word of the day should really be "compromise". We have the oil, the infrastructure and the markets are in place although they could benefit from some expansion there. Our national contribution to GHG emissions is pretty small, 1.6% of the global total last time I checked. We can afford to exploit our oil & gas reserves for a little longer without being a major contributor to the global problem, in fact things like the Alberta NDP's emissions cap on oilsands operations and yes, increasing carbon taxation, will help keep us in line with efforts to reduce overall emissions.

For me it's a given that we have to get away from the burning of fossil fuels, but I also see it as unrealistic to think that we can make it happen in the short term. Environmental activism resisting just about every effort to exploit natural resources is doing more harm than good in that it is hobbling efforts to gets us back to a robust economic position where the money to push forward on the green front has to come from.
And I agree
 

Bar Sinister

Executive Branch Member
Jan 17, 2010
8,252
19
38
Edmonton
You're very youmg. The way arround it is to eliminate the competition. War is the economy. Economic primer. Did you ever go to school?


Fukkin public educated , why? cuz they believe better after a bit of instruction, it's just an impression. Don't bother to reply. I can read.


Very young? Geez, thanks. I'll be 73 in January. And I'm not sure you can read.
 

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
5,825
3,666
113
Edmonton
Nah.

It's a small tax, nothing like the kind of tariffs Trump is proposing.


Just look at Ontario.


Our standard of living is quite good here and conbots have been complaining about our economy for over a decade.


Sorry economic alarmists, you're just shouting at the wind now.



Wow, aren't you being diplomatic!


Many Ontarians are NOT doing well, but I guess if you are, then everyone else doesn't matter. That's what I call being selfish and ideologically self-centred and not just you Flossie but your government.


Just this past weekend on the radio and, (apparently) on Global News Toronto, there was a discussion/report about how thousands of people in the province are having to choose between putting food on the table, paying their rent or paying their sky-high utility bills. All is NOT good in ontarioland,. It is now becoming clear that the Ontario Liberal government has been ill-advised by an eco-extremist, but is still determined to put ideology over the people they're supposed to represent. They have already admitted that there's not much they can do. I would suggest first that they tear up those lucrative electricity contracts (but that would likely end up in a law suit which the citizens would be responsible for paying anyway). Someone SHOULD be locked up for putting Ontario in this situation and the first one should be the one who is now advising Trudeau. He is truly evil!!!


This government has literally put the people of Ontario behind the eight ball by screwing up the very thing that people need to live comfortably and that's the ability to light and heat their homes. In Ontario, if you happen to be in the lower economic status, tough. Like someone was quoted as saying "suck it up". Wow, that's pretty insensitive and "offensive" in my books but I guess flossie that's what you and the government are saying to people who are really hurting. Mind you, you're not the only one; the NDP are saying the same thing here to unemployed workers whose EI is either running out or has run out.


And, the problem is here in Alberta, we're headed the same way. Pictures of coal-fired plants in China purporting to be in Alberta are working I guess. Too bad people are too lazy to actually take the time to look up energy in Canada as a whole. They would find that we provide the cleanest energy on the planet with very little emissions and because we're entrepreneurs and innovators with time we'll get even better. Propaganda is taking the place of truth; ideology over common-sense all for some cocked-up story about climate change. Seriously disturbing.


JMHO