Durban Climate Change Conference 2011

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Yes, it's a cap and trade, which is different from a simple tax like BC's carbon tax. In Europe, some companies have to buy emissions permits, while others were given permits for free. So some companies were basically given money for nothing. It's a system that can be gamed by giving favourable treatment to favourable industries.

It should be no wonder then that when Canada does talk about pricing carbon, Harper et al. have said they would like to introduce a cap and trade scheme. They have already said basically that the Athabasca projects would get a free ride as an exempted industry.

Considering that they are the major growth industry for Canada, that AB pays bilions more into programs. I can see why. No sense shooting yourself in the wallet.
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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So how do you address the issue of the poor paying more based upon income? Returning more is fine. But it is better to provide for those that are more in need than others is my opinion. And I am one of the others as I have a good income stream.

In BC, the tax cuts have also been accompanied by a low income supplement for those who would be hit hardest by the increase. Try reading one of my links earlier in this thread with the BC budgets. It's all in there.

Considering that they are the major growth industry for Canada, that AB pays bilions more into programs. I can see why. No sense shooting yourself in the wallet.

So the fraud in Europe would be OK here? :roll:
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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In BC, the tax cuts have also been accompanied by a low income supplement for those who would be hit hardest by the increase. Try reading one of my links earlier in this thread with the BC budgets. It's all in there.

I will go back when i have a chance.

BC is still runnin a major budget deficit. Same for all provinces. Debt keeps on rising and the days where BC for example can do the "Going to refund to you" programs are nearly over.

So we can all get ready for a lower standard of living.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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My inflation dropped even more WOW.

You knew that 2-3% inflation increase each month is exponential and not a flat percentage?
 

pgs

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 29, 2008
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In BC, the tax cuts have also been accompanied by a low income supplement for those who would be hit hardest by the increase. Try reading one of my links earlier in this thread with the BC budgets. It's all in there.



So the fraud in Europe would be OK here? :roll:
In beautiful B.C. hospitals, schools,and all other government institutions
are charged carbon offset tax,coming off the top starving other areas of their operations,
The funny part is the funds end up in the hands of large carbon immiters like Encana.
Your tax $ at work.
Good plan eh Tonington,starve the children feed the multinational corp.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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How long does it take for 2-3% per month inflation to gobble any measly 5% tax credit?
Get out your calculator and report back with your answer. Then we'll deconstruct where you went wrong.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Oh your right I blew it. The average British Columbian doesn't even come close to getting to tax credits. The 2-3% monthly inflation is wonderful and good for the economy and puts money in their pockets. Make them pay more!

Hooray for more taxes and tax induced inflation!
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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I bet they just love paying 10 cents a liter more than you do.

Yea ain't socialism grand?Those of us that work get the shaft(at least it is oiled) to appease greenies that don't work.
Two reasons for low unemployment in B.C.
1: Mass influx of rich retirees has skewed employment in favor of government employees
2: Anyone with out a government job or a good paying union job has moved to Alberta where they can earn enough to raise a family.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Yea ain't socialism grand?Those of us that work get the shaft(at least it is oiled) to appease greenies that don't work.
Two reasons for low unemployment in B.C.
1: Mass influx of rich retirees has skewed employment in favor of government employees
2: Anyone with out a government job or a good paying union job has moved to Alberta where they can earn enough to raise a family.
Yeah but if they jobs pay **** then the job funding isn't an economical gain.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Environmentalists and policymakers have known since the beginning that cap and trade was a complete scam that favours corporations. That's why it was being pushed so strongly by the corps.

A carbon tax is the only way.

No an income tax is the only way. Taxing carbon is unfair to both rural areas and resource industries that must burn diesel or jet fuel.
 

EagleSmack

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Feb 16, 2005
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It effects them the most yet they are not required to sign on or do cuts?

I am sure there will be some sort of photo-op treaty at the end of this. Probably as ineffective as the original if not moreso.

And lets stop calling China a developing nation. Its developed.

Its a cash grab for so called "developing nations".
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
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And they are also the world's leading producer of renewable energy, and every year they add more renewable as a percentage of their total energy consumption. They are on the correct side of the curve, even without mandatory targets. They have made massive investments in their infrastructure, $34.6 Billion in 2009. They even have laws which prioritize renewable energy development. While our manufacturing centres lose jobs to cheaper labour markets, leading edge technology and high value manufacturing could replace many and even create more jobs. Quebec, Alberta, and BC already have prices on carbon.

Not bad for a "developing" nation!

The bottom line is the GW group knows China won't bow down to any demands made of it. So they give them developing nation status to avoid being embarrassed.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Oh your right I blew it.

You sure did. I'd love to know how a constant variable produces both increasing and decreasing rates of inflation, and how it compounds every month. You could rework all of economics with this one if it ever worked. Call it mathtardology.

Yea ain't socialism grand?

Yes, socialism, societal ownership of production...how does that relate to a consumption tax? I guess you and Petros can start a whole new school for your revolutionary concepts in economics and political science.

Not bad for a "developing" nation!

The bottom line is the GW group knows China won't bow down to any demands made of it. So they give them developing nation status to avoid being embarrassed.

What GW group? So maybe you can work out who it was that gave China developing nation status. Let's see if you're any better than Petros at providing sensible evidence grounded in reality...
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Doubt that. Government does not work for their monry, just raise the tax if they want more.

With government, citizens can look at the receipts and call foul. With corporations, consumers can look at income statements but have no influence whatsoever.

In the first case the only way to profit is to get more votes. In the second case, one can still profit with fewer contributions, but at a higher cost.

It's a fundamental problem with free market capitalism.
 
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