Does God exist?
- Thread starter Kreskin
- Start date
You're accusing Scott of trolling? Your incomprehension of evidence and reason is vast and irredeemable. You say you don't accept crap that can't be proven, yet you can't prove 10% of what you claim, you use the Bible as the sole source of evidence and authority, and you have no concept of how science and critical thinking work, or even what they are. The evidence for evolution is overwhelming and incontrovertible. It's easy to imagine simple evidence that would immediately falsify it--mammalian fossils in cambrian strata for instance--but none has ever been found. The evidence from geology, paleontology, molecular biology, is exactly what would be expected if evolution is correct. You just don't understand it. I don't think you understand evidence at all. Ancient Egyptian records showing that there was once water where now there isn't any, for instance, is not evidence of a global flood. There are so many things wrong with the claim that there was a global flood that you have to postulate miracle upon miracle upon miracle to explain the distribution of flora and fauna we see around us now. What did the herbivores find to eat when they left the Ark? What did the carnivores eat if there was only one pair, or seven in some cases, of their prey animals available? How did marsupials get from the Ark's final resting place all the way to Australia? Why do we find fossils of creatures that clearly no longer exist? Believing that there was a global flood requires deliberate, willful ignorance. It didn't happen, it could not possibly have happened, or the planet would look very different than it does. Believing otherwise based on ancient mythology is just stupid.
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This is why being religious isn't quite living. Religion insists on separating you from things and insists you will go beyond things when you die. It keeps you using your constant attention and distracts you from the fact you are something the universe is doing; that you are the universe conscious. Instead it holds your attention to a narrow perspective clinging to superstitions and holding as true something for which there is no evidence to support. There is so much to show how great being a part of the universe is yet religion says you should long for something else; a thing that in all probability does not exist. So religion takes the universe conscious and destroys it - wastes it - it wastes the lives of those that subscribe. So while religion teaches that we should long for reward we miss the reward we have already. It dampens and weakens our joy by promising something that could not possibly compare to what we are already but claims we will be something so much better; but only once we have given up what we have here; only after we have wasted all our years here pandering after whichever imagined god and completely missed out on the amazing thing we really are. What a waste. What robbery.
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Really, then why is it so easy to find articles like this? Darwin actually said this.
"Such is the sum of the several chief objections and difficulties which may justly be urged against my theory… I have felt these difficulties far too heavily during many years to doubt their weight. 1"
How long did it take for Mount St. Helens to reclaim the surface that was destroyed of all life when it blew.
Everybody pretty much stayed around the Ark for a full year from the time they boarded it. God provided food for 40 years to some who wandered around the desert. I'm quite sure He is capable of providing food for the Ark riders.
Obviously not what they would normally eat. It is said they will all eat straw in the new earth, maybe they got a preview.
They, and all other life-forms, probably got back the same way they got to the Ark, God assisted them.
Not really.
Name calling will not change the facts, you and Darwin are wrong.
The creationists' favourite dirty trick, quote mining. You try to create the impression that evolutionists themselves don't believe in evolution, with deliberately incomplete and out of context citations. Read what he went on to say by way of answering those objections and difficulties, and how the progess of science in the 150 years since has answered them in more detail.
Not a valid comparison. Mt. St. Helens didn't devastate the whole world.
No doubt, though Scripture doesn't seem to say he did, but there's the lovely simplicity of the god hypothesis. Once you accept it, it easily explains everything on the basis of no evidence at all: you can invent any explanation you like and claim god did it. That's not an explanation of anything, it's just a confession of not knowing.
Your reading comprehension could use some work. I didn't say you were stupid, in fact you're obviously not, I said some of what you believe is stupid. What *you* are is misinformed.
Trying to dismiss evolution on the grounds that nobody's seen it happen (which is wrong, but I'll let that slide for now) makes as little sense as arguing that a detective investigating a crime scene can't possibly figure out what happened if nobody saw it happen. You know that's not true. The theory of evolution has been painstakingly worked out by 6 generations of scientists doing that kind of detective work from the clues nature's provided, and there are millions of them, all pointing to the same basic conclusion: descent with modification by natural selection. It's as close to being a true fact as science ever cares to declare anything, about as well established as the fact that the earth orbits the sun.
You merely use your senses to determine that you can see, hear, feel, smell, taste and you have emotions as well. All of this is a part of your existence. But this is not how we perceive God in Islam. We can look to the things that He has created and the way that He cares for things and sustains us, to know that there is no doubt of His existence.
Think about this the next time that you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect that it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.
And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Can a fast food restaurant operate itself without any people there? That's crazy for anyone to even think about.
After considering all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think that all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident?"
Muslims have something that offers the most clear proof of all, The Holy Quran. There is no other book like it anywhere on earth. It is absolutely perfect in the Arabic language. It has no mistakes in grammar, meanings or context. The scientific evidences are well known around the entire world, even amongst non-Muslim scholars. Predictions in the Quran have come true; and its teachings are clearly for all people, all places and all times. No one has been able to produce a book like it, nor ten chapters like it, nor even one chapter like it. It was memorized by thousands of people during the lifetime of Muhammad, peace be upon him, and then this memorization was passed down from teacher to student for generation after generation, from mouth to ear and from one nation to another. Today every single Muslim has memorized some part of the Quran in the original Arabic language that it was revealed in over 1,400 years ago, even though most of them are not Arabs. There are over nine million (9,000,000) Muslims living on the earth today who have totally memorized the entire Quran, word for word, and can recite the entire Quran, in Arabic just as Muhammad, peace be upon him, did 14 centuries ago.
Think about this the next time that you are looking up at the moon or the stars on a clear night; could you drop a drinking glass on the sidewalk and expect that it would hit the ground and on impact it would not shatter, but it would divide up into little small drinking glasses, with iced tea in them? Of course not.
And then consider if a tornado came through a junkyard and tore through the old cars; would it leave behind a nice new Mercedes with the engine running and no parts left around? Naturally not.
Can a fast food restaurant operate itself without any people there? That's crazy for anyone to even think about.
After considering all of the above, how could we look to the universe above us through a telescope or observe the molecules in a microscope and then think that all of this came about as a result of a "big bang" or some "accident?"
Muslims have something that offers the most clear proof of all, The Holy Quran. There is no other book like it anywhere on earth. It is absolutely perfect in the Arabic language. It has no mistakes in grammar, meanings or context. The scientific evidences are well known around the entire world, even amongst non-Muslim scholars. Predictions in the Quran have come true; and its teachings are clearly for all people, all places and all times. No one has been able to produce a book like it, nor ten chapters like it, nor even one chapter like it. It was memorized by thousands of people during the lifetime of Muhammad, peace be upon him, and then this memorization was passed down from teacher to student for generation after generation, from mouth to ear and from one nation to another. Today every single Muslim has memorized some part of the Quran in the original Arabic language that it was revealed in over 1,400 years ago, even though most of them are not Arabs. There are over nine million (9,000,000) Muslims living on the earth today who have totally memorized the entire Quran, word for word, and can recite the entire Quran, in Arabic just as Muhammad, peace be upon him, did 14 centuries ago.
There are no schisms in Islam, right? No division into Shiites and Sunnis, no sects like Wahabbis, no Sufi mystics who take a different view, no variant texts of the Quran itself, its message is clear and obvious to anyone, all Muslims believe exactly the same things because it's all laid out without error or inconsistency in the Quran... What preposterous BS.
NOTE: With all respect to those who ascribe themselves to various groups in Islam, this article is dedicated to solving serious issues effecting Muslims world wide. The conclusion is that anyone who can say, "I believe there is only one God, Allah and Muhammad is His messenger and servant" is in fact, a Muslim. It is only when they insist on adding an adjective to describe their particular "type" of Islam that the problems begin to surface.
Please read on with this thought in mind - Allah says;
"It is He (Allah) who has named you MUSLIMS.." [22:78]
"It is He (Allah) who has named you MUSLIMS.." [22:78]
"Which Group is the Right Group?"
- by Yusuf Estes
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- by Yusuf Estes
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Seems like these days the Muslims now come in "All Flavors." There are so many different names of so many groups in the world today. But which are the "true Muslims?"
The groups carry names like:
Sunnies, Salafies, Shi'ites, Ahmadiyah, Kadianis, Sufis, Nation of Islam, Hanafi, Shafi, Wahabis, Moorish Science, Five Percenters, Aghakhanis, Ansar Allah, Modernists, and even Reformed Muslims.
The groups carry names like:
Sunnies, Salafies, Shi'ites, Ahmadiyah, Kadianis, Sufis, Nation of Islam, Hanafi, Shafi, Wahabis, Moorish Science, Five Percenters, Aghakhanis, Ansar Allah, Modernists, and even Reformed Muslims.
So many sects and groups - all claim to be the "Saved sect of Islam"
- But is there really a saved sect of Islam? If so, which one?
- And how would we know for sure?
Good Questions! - But is there really a saved sect of Islam? If so, which one?
- And how would we know for sure?
Each of the "faith groups" mentioned have been labeled by different people as sects or deviant groups in degrees from border line to completely out of Islam.
Before we begin trying to gain an understanding of who is right or wrong on this issue it is quite advantageous to spend a moment in reviewing the meanings of the actual words which will be using in our discussion.
We begin by looking to the meanings of key words from the Arabic language as this will assist us in making the right conclusions and avoid more confusion. The first of all the words to understand has to be "Islam" and then immediately following that, the word "Muslim." These words are not English and have to be understood in the Arabic. They do not translate into one word.
First word - "ISLAM." We should have been asking all along, "What does the term ISLAM actually mean, anyway?"
ISLAM comes from the root "slm" or "salama". The word ISLAM in reference to the faith is understood in Arabic as the:
ISLAM means = Surrender"Give up evil and lusts - give in to the Creator"Submission"Agree to the terms and conditions of being a servant of Almighty God" Obedience"Comply with His Commandments to the best of your ability" Sincerity"Do it all whether or not anyone else notices or cares."Peace"Accept what Almighty God gives you in this life in serenity."
All of which come about only by giving up the Free Will of the nafs (self or ego) in favor of the Will of the Creator and Sustainer of All That Exists (ALLAH).
This would be similar to the teaching in the Lord's Prayer for the Christians, when Jesus, peace be upon him, taught his followers a prayer asking for "God's Will to be done on earth as it is in Heaven." (Matt. 6)
ISLAM is mention in the Quran as a "deen" or way of life of an individual. A complete way of living in balance with everything else in the creation of Almighty Allah. ISLAM provides inclusive instructions for everything including eating, sleeping, dealing in relationships, economics, politics, health, worship and even death. The entire universe is "IN ISLAM" because it is all a part of what has been created and is being sustained by Almighty Allah.
Now let us consider the next logical question; "What does the term "Muslim" actually mean?"
Again, we must keep in mind that it is an Arabic word and is of course subject to the rules of the Arabic language. Actually, it is derived from the word ISLAM. Whereas, you might think of ISLAM as the verb or action and MUSLIM as the noun, or the one performing the action. In English whenever we have a noun performing a verb, we add the two suffix letters; ER. But in the Arabic language many times you will find that the prefix letters of MU are used for the same purpose.
A few examples may help to better understand. We will compare the verb of each language to the one who is reforming the verb:
MU - prefix for the verb
Preforming the verbs in ENGLISH
Preforming the verbs in ARABIC
Travel = TravelER Safar = MUsafarCall = CallER Adhan = MUadhanPray =PrayER Salah = MUsalahSubmit = Submit ER Islam = MUslimA "MUSLIM" is one who follows or practices the action of "ISLAM"
In English, when we understand the "ISLAM" is an action, we might say that anyone who "Islams" is an "Islam-ER." Right? We see in the chart above, in Arabic the "mu" preceding a verb indicates the same thing. Therefore, we would understand that the one who is actively doing the verb of "Islam" [submission to God] is a "Mu"-Islam or "Muslim."
Make sense?
Now, we should ask, "How does a person become a MUSLIM?"
Only when a person is willing to submit to the Commandments of the Higher Authority from Above, meaning to obey Allah on His terms as much as possible does he/she become a " MUSLIM."
Allah Says in Quran, all of creation is in submission to Him (MUSLIM).
What if the sun asked the moon, "Hey moon! What kind of Muslim are you? A Shia' or a Sunni?" - Such an idea just does not make any sense.
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And fortunately there are several clear evidences for us to determine the correct solution to this problem. The first evidence to mention in Islam is the actual teachings of the faith are preserved in their original language and texts. Allah sent down the Quran (Recitation) to the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, in the Arabic language, through the angel Gabriel, who memorized it and taught it to his companions who also memorized it and then passed on this tradition from generation to generation, to us today. The Quran is the same in every single mosque on earth and no one has ever changed a single word of it in 1,400 years.
Certainly one of the most important beauties of Islam is the preservation of scripture, The Quran [which is still being memorized and recited in the exact form and language {Arabic} as it was over 1400 years ago)
The second evidence is the authenticity of references known as Hadeeth [verified teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him] the teachings of Muhammad, peace be upon him, are also available to us today and have been preserved by his followers and passed on along with the chain of narrators to insure the reliability and authenticity of each one.
The third point, Islam provides a totally complete and balanced way of life for all of the creation of the Almighty. Islam comes as more than just another faith or religion. Islam offers a path to the unity of all people and provides for them instructions from the Almighty Above in how to solve all of their problems and differences.
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Let us now look to the actual teachings of these two Holy Sources [i.e.; Quran and Hadeeth] to learn what Islam teaches about the subject of dividing up into various groups or sects. As we have already established, Islam is based on two evidences: 1.) The Quran; and 2.) Sunnah (The Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him]. Let us begin first with the Quran. Allah talks about those who divide up Islam into sects or groups in the Quran:
"And how would you disbelieve, while unto you are recited the Verses of Allah, and among you is His Messenger (Muhammad SAW)? And whoever holds firmly to Allah, (i.e. follows Islam Allah's Religion, and obeys all that Allah has ordered, practically), then he is indeed guided to a Right Path.
O you who believe! Fear Allah (by doing all that He has ordered and by abstaining from all that He has forbidden) as He should be feared. [Obey Him, be thankful to Him, and remember Him always], and die not except in a state of Islam (as Muslims) with complete submission to Allah.
And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's Favor on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islamic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided.
Let there arise out of you a group of people inviting to all that is good (Islam), enjoining Al-Ma'ruf (i.e. Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam orders one to do) and forbidding Al-Munkar (polytheism and disbelief and all that Islam has forbidden). And it is they who are the successful.
And be not as those who divided and differed among themselves after the clear proofs had come to them. It is they for whom there is an awful torment." [Quran 3:100 - 3:105]
"As for those who Divide their Religion and Break up into Sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the Truth of all that they did." [Quran 6:159]
Let us examine some important facts. Think for a moment and then ask yourself this question:
"Do the words; 'Islam' and 'Muslim' appear in the scripture of Islam [Quran]?" Answer: YES!
We as Muslims, have been instructed in the Quran itself to resolve any of our differences according to these two sources or otherwise to be considered as non-believers, by our Lord. As He has mentioned in the Quran:
"But no, by your Lord, they can have no faith until they make you [Muhammad] as a judge between them in all their disputes, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept with full submission [Islam]." [An Nisaa' 4:65]
It is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter that they should have any option in their decision. And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he has indeed strayed in plain error." [Al Ahzab 33:36]
Now let us return to what Allah said in His Holy Book, The Quran, Allah has called those who follow His Straight Path (Al Mustaqeem) of Islam: "Muslims". He also says that we should not die except as "Muslims" followed by the statement ordering the believers not to divide up into groups:
"Truly the only acceptable Way of worship to Allah is submission, obedience in peace to His Commandments (ISLAM)." [Al Imran 3:19]
"And whoever seeks a way of life and worship to Allah (DEEN) other than being in submission and obedience to His commandments (ISLAM), it will never be accepted of them." [Al Imran 3:85]
"O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared. and do not die except as being in submission to the Will of God and obeying His Commandments (MUSLIMS)." [Al Imran 3:102]
And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allah (i.e. this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves, and remember Allah's Favor on you, for you were enemies one to another but He joined your hearts together, so that, by His Grace, you became brethren (in Islamic Faith), and you were on the brink of a pit of Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes His Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.,) clear to you, that you may be guided." [Al Imran 3:103]
"And whoever Allah wills to guide, He opens his breast to the way of submission and obedience to Allah's Guidance (ISLAM); and whoever Allah wills to misguide, He makes his breast constricted as though he is climbing up in the sky. Thus Allah puts the wrath on those who believe not." [An Aam 6:125]
"Is he whose breast Allah has opened to the way of submission and obedience to Allah's Guidance (ISLAM), so that he is in the light from His Lord (like the one who does not believe)? So woe to those whose hearts are hardened against the remembrance of Allah! They are in plain error!" [Az-Zumar 39:22]
"And who does more wrong than the one who invents a lie against Allah, when he is being called to the way of submission and obedience to Allah's Guidance (ISLAM)?" [As Saff 61:7]
"Verily, my Salat, my sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah, the Lord of the Alamin." [An Aam 6:162]
"He has no partner. And of this I have been commanded, and I am the first of those who are being in submission to the Will of God and obeying His Commandments (MUSLIMS)." [An Aam 6:163]
"And the foremost to embrace the way of submission and obedience to Allah's Guidance (ISLAM) of those who migrated (from Makkah to Madinah) and the Ansar (helpers from Madinah) and also those who followed them exactly (in faith). Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success." [At Taubah 9:100]
"And I am commanded in order that I may be the foremost of those who submit themselves to Allah as being in submission to the Will of God and obeying His Commandments (MUSLIMS)." [Az Zumar 39:12]
"And strive hard in Allah's Cause as you ought to strive. He has chosen you and has not laid upon you in a way of life and worship to Allah (DEEN) any hardship: it is the a way of life and worship to Allah (DEEN) of your father Ibrahim. It is He Who has named you being in submission to the Will of God and obeying His Commandments (MUSLIMS) both before and in this (Quran), that the Messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him) may be a witness over you and you be witnesses over mankind! [Al Hajj 22:78]
"Certainly, the Muslim men and Muslim women, believing men and believing women, obedient men and obedient women, truthful men and truthful women, patient men and patient women, charitable men and charitable women, fasting men and fasting women, chaste men and chaste women, pious men and pious women (remembering Allah with their hearts and tongues), for them Allah has prepared forgiveness and a great reward." [33:35]
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Let us now look to the sayings and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, who told us: "Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone. People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well therefore, O people, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray."
In Khutbatul Wada' (also known as The last Sermon of Prophet Muhammad may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) stated:
"Muslims will divide into 73 groups. All will be in Hell, except one. The one me and my companions are on today."
That is the universal group of Islam leading life based on Quran and Sunnah. Prophet may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him never said that he was a salafi or sunnie or shiite and we are suppose to do what our prophet (saw) did which is Call us Muslims and Muslims only.
Muhammad, peace be upon him, said in one hadith :
'Both legal and illegal things are evident but in between them there are doubtful (suspicious) things and most of the people have no knowledge about them.
So whoever saves himself from these suspicious things saves his religion and his honor. And whoever indulges in these suspicious things is like a shepherd who grazes (his animals) near the Hima (private pasture) of someone else and at any moment he is liable to get in it.
(O people!) Beware! Every king has a Hima and the Hima of Allah on the earth is His illegal (forbidden) things. Beware! There is a piece of flesh in the body if it becomes good (reformed) the whole body becomes good but if it gets spoilt the whole body gets spoilt and that is the heart.
(Sahih Al Bukhari Vol.1, Hadith No.49)
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, told us in a hadeeth (teachings and sayings); He had prayed and asked Allah for three things, but he was only granted two of them. He tells us:
"I asked Allah that my nation (the Muslims) would not be destroyed by being out numbered. And Allah granted that prayer.
I then asked Allah that my nation (Muslims) would not be destroyed from poverty. And Allah granted that prayer.
I asked Allah that my nation (Muslims) would not be destroyed by being divided and fighting amongst themselves. Allah did not grant that prayer."
Additionally, the prophet, peace be upon him, said:
"Muslims will divide into 73 groups. All will be in Hell, except one. The one me and my companions are on today."
Notice, he said the "saved sect" would be those who remained on what he and his companions were on, meaning, "Quran and Sunnah." We see clearly from the above that Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala has named us as "Muslims" alone.
Additionally, when we consider that the deviant groups always have to have a name of some kind in order to distinguish themselves from the others, we begin to see the pattern. If someone feels that it is necessary to describe himself as a certain kind of "Muslim" then this is his or her problem.
Now of course one could say that: "I am a tall Muslim." or "He is a small Muslim." and then this type of description is for the purpose of identifying physical characteristics.
Additionally, a person might use someone's country or nationality to describe a Muslim for the purpose of determining their heritage such as a "Pakistani Muslim" or an "Arab Muslim."
These types of descriptions do not put a person out of the fold of Islam.
Where the problem comes in is when the adjective related to the word "Muslim" or the word "Islam" has to do with FAITH or BELIEF.
We must understand that Allah Subhannah wa Ta'ala has made it perfectly clear both in the Quran and in the sayings of the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, that the religion of Islam was perfected and completed during the lifetime of the Prophet, peace be upon him, and that no new religion would come until the Last Day and that those who followed Islam were called by Allah, MUSLIMS.
In one hadeeth of the prophet, peace be upon him, drew a straight line in the dirt with a stick. He said, "This is the straight path to Allah [meaning the Way of Islam]." Then he drew angles right and left off of the straight line and said, "These are the deviant groups (or sects of Islam) and each one has a devil calling to it."
He mentioned that there would always be a main body of Muslims who would be on the straight path until the Last Day.
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So, now let us consider that same concept and apply it to the various groups, all of them come along claiming to be the "saved sect." If it was not revealed during the time of the prophet, peace be upon him, and it was not something done by his companions, may Allah be pleased with them all, then why would we want to incorporate it into our deen [way of life in Islam]? While Allah has already made it clear in His Book: {Inna deenah innda lahi, Islam}
"Certainly, the only way [deen] acceptable to Allah is the submission to Him in Islam."(3:19)
"Certainly, the only way [deen] acceptable to Allah is the submission to Him in Islam."(3:19)
And again in Chapter Mayadah (5:3), when Allah Subhannah wa Ta’ala says: {Al yawmal akmal tu lakum deenakum wa atmumtu alaykum ni'mati wa raditu lakum al Islam adeena}
"On this day have I perfected your way of life (sometimes translated as [religion]) for you, completed My Favor upon you and have chosen for you ISLAM as your way of life."
Sheikh Mohammad Jibaly, a learned teacher of Islam, mentioned a hadeeth of the prophet, peace be upon him, to me some time back, wherein the prophet, peace be upon him tells us it is forbidden for us until the Last Day to call ourselves by any names except "Abdullah, Abdur Rahman and Muslim."
These words should have a profound impact on the believers today as much or more that those who heard them one thousand four hundred years ago. Today more than ever before we have seen what these names and groups have produced in the way of division, hated and violence.
Sorry I forgot the link so you can read the whole thing if you like.
Darwinism-Watch.com
The point I hoped you would pickup on is how NG cherry picks what it prints, same as you thought I was doing.
Suffice to say it was quicker than expected. Were ash fall from a volcano that is very fertile land, same with river floods, that land is usually some of the best producing land to be found.
Depending on how you read those chapters it was as early as about 50 days from the start of the rain until the dove returned with a olive leaf, the other possibility is that it took about 9 months. The earlier time is correct if Noah opened the windows when the rains stopped, 40 days after they started.
If Scripture said how He did it I would have posted the verse, what I did post was how He handled the issue of food in tow other instances, it is your right to reject one or both. I don't know how it was done but it would have been a small task compared to what else was going on at that very time.
LOL, any time you want to do a walk-through of the whole Bible let me know. You are 59, I'm 55, we can still cover the most important stuff.
" Believing otherwise based on ancient mythology is just stupid."
The above means you think I am stupid, that isn't a big deal, I've been called worse. I usually try to avoid replying to these types of comments as they are a detraction from the core subject of the thread. I'm not above throwing an insult or two myself, hopefully the person they are aimed at has shin thick enough that it does not damage them.
You and I both know that when trying to prove something you 'believe in' can skew the way some facts are taken. The really good ones follow where the information leads. I post articles from darwinism-watch, pretty much says I have some reservations, right. That link I provided covers most of the 'complaints' I have against Darwinism style of evolution. That doesn't mean I don't allow for billions of years of time or that life is very old, or that life can evolve to suit the enviornment. I won't accept something I'm not throughly convinced of. I am convinced that God is real and the Bible is authentic. That lets me 'ponder' just what style of writing God used if He really did care that we understood what He was saying. More often than not it is more point form (like a rough draft I would do) rather than an engrossing novel with all sorts of twists and bends and plots and sub-plots. (my shopping list in point form compared to a 'chapter' for each isle I went down and vivid descriptions of the whole event) Basically the most amount of info that can be given in the least amount of words. All of creation takes two whole pages. The flood takes 2 very short chapters. Both of those things have importance, but what about 2 chapters that deal with the death of Stephen, does that make that event equal to the flood or creation itself? I wouldn't dismiss that thought without some very serious study on both subjects.
Cats and dogs, different species, same class. Yup.
Nope. The LCA was in the carnivora order. The carnivora order is plit into cat-like carnivores, and dog-like carnivores. The likeness refers to physiology and morphology.
So, now having missing parts is evidence of what? Do you know what specific conditions are needed for fossilization? I'll list the important ones for you:
1) The animal must have hard parts, like shells or bones or scales.
2) The body must be protected from destruction, and overlain with material to prevent decomposition.
Beyond that, having missing parts of the picture isn't proof that the links don't exist, they find new fossils every year...
And you'll never witness a mountain forming. It happens nonetheless. There's tell tale clues if your eyes are open, or more importantly your mind is open.
I don't think so. I had to think carefully about how to respond to that, and I regret that you've chosen to take that interpretation of it, it isn't at all what I meant. I've had some intemperate moments when I've said things I probably shouldn't have, but that wasn't one of them. I don't think you're stupid, in fact I'm sure you're not, stupid people can't write as coherently as you do. They can't write clearly at all. What you are, as I said, is misinformed, which has led you to some conclusions that can be fairly described as stupid, because they're based on false information, lack of information, and misunderstanding.
No doubt as a serious Christian you've encountered the phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner." Words like love and hate are too emotionally freighted to really apply here, I neither love nor hate you or your ideas, and I don't believe the idea of sin has any coherent referents anyway, but that phrase sort of expresses where I'm coming from. Scale its emotional freight down about 95% and you've got it.
Fact is sometimes it takes two or three uns at the same topic from slightly different angles to sometimes get the message across, if the message is valid then there are at least that many angles (slightly different arguments) that, in the end, create a complete picture.
No doubt you have heard the expression 'if you can't attack the message then attack the messenger'. I'm not saying that is what you did but I have run across it before and that automatically makes me go over the last few points to see if something is being avoided.
Here is another site that mentions Mr. Behe but doesn't actually quote him but supports his theory for this one aspect. Basic question, is the theory in error of the hydrogen ion motor? It takes 40 components and if 1 is missing it will not run.
If such an all-powerful being did exist, why is the human race facing such atrocities?
Why did all those people in our known history die in the name of `God?`.
Why do we not have proof of such a being, other than third hand accounts?
Was `God` bored and created us for his amusement?
From an evolutionary point of view, some one had the time to create millions of species and then allow many of them to become extinct or on the border of extinction. If so this `entity has a sick sense of humour.`
Why is there disease and poverty?
If such`a being existed` why is there only one inhabited planet that we know of?
Why does it seem that you need a crutch rather than relying upon yourself? Just a case of an easy out?
This is a pure and personal observation.
It is a personal view.
Why did all those people in our known history die in the name of `God?`.
Why do we not have proof of such a being, other than third hand accounts?
Was `God` bored and created us for his amusement?
From an evolutionary point of view, some one had the time to create millions of species and then allow many of them to become extinct or on the border of extinction. If so this `entity has a sick sense of humour.`
Why is there disease and poverty?
If such`a being existed` why is there only one inhabited planet that we know of?
Why does it seem that you need a crutch rather than relying upon yourself? Just a case of an easy out?
This is a pure and personal observation.
It is a personal view.
That "all-powerful" is something inside all of us that, when activated, keeps us from believing "I am God". No magic tricks about it....