Discussion open - Tuesday, Dec. 2: Are you in favour of the government being brought

[scratch]

Then someone is going to have to make a public declaration about the situation, are they not?

regards,
scratch

 

[Praxius]

Praxius,

You can give me your opinion without attacking me, it is called common courtesy.

I'm not even in attack mode yet, but you'll certainly know it when I am. ;-)

The vote cards said NDP or Liberal, or Bloc or Green not a coalition. The vote was not for a coalition, it was for an individual party.

And our democracy states that that doesn't matter and leaves perfect room for this type of process to be used without our input. Many decisions in the government are done without our input.... that's representational democracy. This is one of those decisions that the people we voted in with our democratic rights are permitted to do without our input.

If you didn't want them to do this, then perhaps you (and everyone else) should have voted for the Conservatives..... they didn't and this is the result of those votes, whether you or I or anybody else likes it.

Do you really believe just because you are in the Maritimes that you are the only one who cares about them?

Nope, but I know the process a lot more it would seem then most here who are getting all upity and moanfull about things that really don't matter or are of any concern.

You and a few others are trying to tell me that I and the whole democratic process is wrong, and I am telling you it isn't because you don't seem to completely understand the process.... which is why I supplied that National link so people can educate themselves on what is actually going on, what can and can not be done and what is true and false.

I'm from N.S., we only moved because there was no work. I was there when the fisheries was taken away, I was there when the racial problems shut down the schools, I was there most of my life. I love the Maritimes as much as you do.

I imagine you do, but you just said you no longer live here based on reasons I have been arguing for years now in regards to people leaving where there are no jobs. I could have done the same thing, but I personally decided to stick it out here and fight for a decent paying job.... and I did.

Life isn't always easy and neither is our government.

When you leave your home to go somewhere where there are paying jobs and a way to make a living, there is a problem.... and when you have a government lead by people who simply don't give a crap and haven't done anything to fix the problem except pollute and pump more money into one area of the country for all to have no choice but to work at..... why do you oppose a concept that can bring a solution to the problem and balance out the country as a whole, rather then a select few?

If you have one party just funding and putting money into one part of the country (The West), what's the point of being a part of that country? They're clearly not representing the rest of the nation.

I'm going to quote my mother,
"I voted for the NDP and not the Liberals/Bloc/Green"

My mother wanted Peter Stoffer and not the rest.


This is why I say vote again.

And I voted NDP as well, I opposed much of what the Liberals planned, such as the Carbon Tax, and the Greens never stood a chance because May couldn't keep professional.

But just because I voted for just one party because I related the most with them, doesn't mean I am opposed to the concept of that party I voted for, to actually work with the other parties to get things done..... that's how it's supposed to work.

 

[Praxius]

Then someone is going to have to make a public declaration about the situation, are they not?

regards,
scratch

Which falls on the Gov. General to make the decision..... which will be a difficult and interesting one.

 

[JLM]

In multi-party parliamentary democracies, coalitions are the norm.

Click here.

Good morning Spade- I can buy that, what I can't buy is Canadians accepting a coalition that depends for it's existance on the inclusion of a party who's main interest is in total conflict of the desires of the overwhelmng majority of Canadians. Quebec has about 20% of the population and about 50% of them don't want separation. And what really ticks me off is that Dion and Layton want to include the Bloc, so I'm hardpressed to believe that they are more interested in the country than their own selfish agenda. (Not to say for a second that Harper, given different circumstances can't be just as sleezy) If for instance a coalition of the Liberals and N.D.P. were formed with Paul Martin as P.M. I'd support that in a heartbeat. It's all in how you play your cards, Spade. :lol:

 

[china]

I'm not sure how I should take this considering it comes from you.
I think I will just laugh and enjoy it - I was just called a nut by a crazy person!

BTW, have you thought up any new word salads?

I could have called you a stupid person ,but obviously you are not stupid . What peepd me off is your comparison of Prime Minister of my country to Stalin and Hitler of whose era you have not got a faintest idea. So I called you a plain nut ; big deal you called me a crazy person in a different spirit .
I was going to reply that I feel sorry for you ,but I,m not going to do that .
Fair enough .

 

[scratch]

Prax,

In my opinion you are in the groove today.
rgs
scratch

 

[Quigley]

Parliamentary Democracy is a system that developed and came into being without any logical and reasonable thought, surviving only out of respect for tradition. In that system of government, coalition among sore losers has ALWAYS been the mark of a third rate banana republic and the only way to grab power that they never earned through a legitimate election.

One can only hope that Canada has not sunk to that level.

I give this coalition a self-life of about three months, depending on to what extent Dion and Layton bribed and sucked up to the treasoneous Bloc Quebecois. It is a safe bet that at the first sign of Quebec not getting preferential treatment, the long knives of the Bloc will come out and stab the fellow Quebeois Prime Minister wannabe and his socialist cohort in the back.

It is to be hoped that the Governor General will see thorugh this deplorable and deceitful dishonesty and nip in the bud. But since was appointed by an earlier version of the same gang that may be too much to hope for.

 

[china]

One can only hope that Canada has not sunk to that level.

Let's hope not .

 

[jjaycee98]

No=it's just politics.

 

[lone wolf]

Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong wrong

And you saw Duceppe talking about how wonderful it all was......not for Quebec, but for sovereignty...........

And we were not in econmoic "crisis", and it was not about that, it was about having political parties pulled off the public teat.

And a huge number of people are outraged at the BQ's inclusion.....

So let's go back to the polls.

Let the people decide.

Can you say Harper majority?????

It was Harper's spoiled brat acts that brought on his butt-kicking. I'd hate to see that snot-nosed control freak with a majority. Six letter word for tyrant. Begins with 'H'...

No ... I don't like the idea of being held hostage by Quebec ... but I hate the idea of a poor little rich boy pickin' my bones clean even more. Harper is the type of ass who starts wars just to be right.

 

[scratch]

Well said lone.

regs
scratch

 

[Praxius]

Related News:

PM dares Dion to face voters with coalition plan
PM dares Dion to face voters with coalition plan

Prime Minister Stephen Harper accused Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion of betraying Canadian voters with the proposed Liberal-NDP coalition to replace the Conservative minority government, saying Dion is "turning his back" on the results of the recent federal election.

Harper, whose government currently faces almost certain defeat in a confidence vote, also told the House of Commons during Tuesday's fiery question period that Dion was about to make the "worst mistake the Liberal party has ever made in its history" by agreeing to support from the sovereigntist Bloc Québécois.

"Not a single member of this House, not even a member of the Bloc, received a mandate to have a government in which the separatists would be part of the coalition," Harper said.

"Mr. Speaker, if the leader of the Opposition thinks he has support for this, he should have the confidence to take this to the people of Canada, who will reject it."

In response, Dion accused Harper of hypocrisy in his efforts to keep his government from falling in a confidence vote.

The Liberal leader quoted a 2005 letter Harper wrote as Opposition leader that called Paul Martin government's avoidance of confidence motions a "violation of the fundamental constitutional principles of our democracy."

"Mr. Speaker, every member in this House has received a mandate from the Canadian people to deliver a government that will face the economic crisis," Dion said.

"The prime minister failed. The prime minister doesn’t have the support of this House."

'I gave my word that I would support this country': Dion

Dion also said that while he was fighting for Canada as intergovernmental affairs minister in the Chrétien government, Harper was urging the building of firewalls "around the provinces we all love."

"Mr. Speaker, I gave my word that I would support this country," Dion said.

"The Bloc Québécois guaranteed 18 months of stability, and that is what Canadians are getting from this coalition in this agreement."

The heated debate comes as Gov. Gen. Michaëlle Jean was returning home early from a state visit to Europe to deal with the upheaval on Parliament Hill, where she could decide the fate of the government in the next week.

Parliament is set to vote on a Liberal no-confidence motion on Dec. 8. If Harper's government loses, Dion would ask Jean to approve the proposed coalition government.

Harper could still delay the vote or prorogue Parliament until his government presents a budget in January.

During question period, Harper also accused Dion, NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe of deliberately avoiding being photographed in front of a Canadian flag during Monday's signing ceremony of the agreement between the parties.

"Mr. Speaker, they had to be photographed without it because … a member of their coalition does not even believe in this country," he said.

Video and photographs of the event, however, clearly showed at least two Canadian flags behind the three leaders, as well as a painting of the Fathers of Confederation.

Layton, in turn, told the House that Harper's tone toward the Bloc has changed since he proposed in a letter to the Governor General in 2004 that the Conservatives should be afforded an opportunity to form a government with the Bloc and the NDP if the Martin government were to be defeated.

"I didn't hear any of this high and mighty language and moral indignation from the prime minister when he signed a document along with myself and Mr. Duceppe a few years ago," the New Democrat leader said.

"He simply can't be trusted."

Exactly!

Speaking to reporters outside the Commons, the Bloc leader said the 2004 letter shows Harper "certainly wasn't as afraid as he is now of the naughty separatists."

Economic update sparked coalition talks

Talk of a coalition government was triggered when Finance Minister Jim Flaherty delivered his controversial fiscal update last Thursday.

Opposition parties blasted the Tories for failing to include a stimulus package for the slumping economy and accused the party of using tumultuous times to try to push through ideologically driven measures they said attacked women and public servants.

The Conservatives have since promised to present their budget on Jan. 27, with the suggestion it will contain a stimulus package, and have eliminated some of the most contentious issues from the fiscal update.

The coalition has vowed to make a stimulus package a priority, proposing a multi-billion dollar plan that includes help for the auto and forestry sectors.

Under the coalition accord, Dion would serve as prime minister until a new Liberal leader is chosen in May.

The coalition would have a 24-member cabinet with six New Democrats and 18 Liberals, and would operate with the support of the Bloc Québécois for at least 18 months.

With 77 Liberal MPs and 37 New Democrats, plus the support of 49 Bloc members, the three parties have more seats than the 143 held by the Tories.

Anybody see the lies from Harper? Anybody see the hypocracy?

He can not be trusted and thus, the actions of the other parties are valid. There is no need to bring it back to an election, because we already voted in this government to do what is best.... if they feel this is best, then that's what is going to happen.

 

[Praxius]

Related News:

GG arriving home; Tories unleash new attack ads
CTV.ca | GG arriving home; Tories unleash new attack ads

Gov. Gen. Michaelle Jean is arriving home from Europe today to deal with the political crisis that has deeply divided the country among those who support the government, and those who back an NDP-Liberal coalition supported by the Bloc Quebecois.

It is expected that some time in the next few days Prime Minister Stephen Harper will ask Jean to prorogue Parliament in order to prevent a non-confidence vote on Monday that could defeat the government.

If the non-confidence vote takes place and the government falls, the coalition could then ask Jean for the opportunity to win the confidence of the House of Commons, and could take over as government without an election.

It is widely believed Harper will try to prorogue Parliament first, shutting down the House of Commons until January.

Meanwhile, the Conservatives have launched an all-out war, following up Tuesday radio ads with scathing television ads on Wednesday.

In one of the ads a black-and-white image of Liberal Leader Stephane Dion -- who would take over as prime minister under the coalition's plan -- is shown while a female voice repeats a central Conservative message that accuses Dion of a power grab.

"In the last election just a few weeks ago Canadians overwhelmingly said 'no' to Stephane Dion as prime minister. Now just a few weeks later Stephane Dion is trying to overturn the election he lost and take power through the back door."

The ad then warns that Dion has given too much power to the Bloc, which would support the coalition but remain outside of government.

"Stephane Dion and the separatist Bloc. Shouldn't you get to decide?" the ad asks.

Meanwhile, a University of Toronto political scientist said it isn't clear whether Jean will grant Harper's expected request to prorogue parliament.

There have been questions about whether Jean actually has the power to deny the request, but professor Peter Russell said while it is "murky territory," Jean has discretion on the matter.

"I don't think the Governor General is simply a rubber stamp that must do anything the prime minister wants," he told CTV's Canada AM.

"That would make her position as a protector of parliamentary democracy irrelevant and nonsensical if she's there to guard against the abuse of power."

Nelson Wiseman, another U of T political scientist, said while Jean has discretion, it would be "unprecedented" for her to turn Harper's request down. But it is also unprecedented for a prime minister to seek to prorogue Parliament so soon after an election, he said.

Fever pitch

The political showdown in Ottawa reached a fever pitch in Parliament Tuesday as Harper accused his foes of "betraying" voters while the opposition said the Tories have been misleading the country with doublespeak.

During a fiery question period session, where MPs hurled accusations and openly shouted at each other across the benches, Harper said that the Liberals, NDP and Bloc Quebecois want to "scrap" the results of the last election.

Harper also accused Dion of trying to use "parliamentary niceties" to grab power and become prime minister.

"If you want to be prime minister, you get your mandate from the Canadian people, not from the separatists," he said.

The prime minister is also expected to address Canadians in a televised address some time this week.

Dion fired back in Parliament and said the Tories were in a holding pattern and simply prolonging their eventual defeat.

"The prime minister failed," said Dion, pushing for a confidence vote. "If he was a democrat, he would allow this House to show how much he failed."

Dion also said the Conservatives have been blatantly contradicting themselves by saying one thing in English and another in French.

"He's saying that we Liberals are selling Canada to the separatists, and his Quebec MPs are saying that the separatists are selling their soul to the Liberals! He needs to choose between these two lies," Dion said.

NDP Leader Jack Layton, meanwhile, said that Harper himself was prepared to form a government with the Bloc four years ago is making the accusations in order to slander his political opponents.

"He's making them now in order to try and turn Canadians against the kind of economic action they so desperately want to see," said Layton. "We're going to talk to Canadians and tell them the truth about what's happening here."

 

[scratch]

Hopefully, some time soon we will!

scratch

 

[Colpy]

Then may I ask you this:

What is it that you fear so much about Quebec actually seperating or having the power to seperate?

How is that going to destroy Canada?

Why are they not allowed to have the opportunity to seperate and become their own nation?

Yes they already have a few chances and they voted no.... but if it really was a dead issue, we wouldn't be talking about it still, therefore I don't see why they can not have the opportunity to do so.

They're not wanting to destroy Canada, they just may or may not want to be a part of it anymore..... and if our country falls apart after they leave, well that says a lot about our country now doesn't it?

Two words seldom spoken in Canada: Civil War.

no, I haven't "lost it". Yes, it is a very distinct possiblity. I ask you, name me a nation that has divided without Civil War.........I can think of one....Czechoslovakia, and both the Czech Republic and Slovakia voted over-whelmingly in favour, and there were no territorial issues. Not so in Canada.


My view is that if Quebec wants to go, and can get a clear majority on a clear question, then fine, out they go. Without Ungava, or any other territory that wants to stay in Canada. The question of whether Quebec is divisible makes violence practically inevitable.

I kinda like the nation as it is.

 

[Risus]

No, this is just a power grab by the three stooges with dion being the fall guy.

Man that guy looked like a lunatic in the House of Commons yesterday

 

[Risus]

Two words seldom spoken in Canada: Civil War.

no, I haven't "lost it". Yes, it is a very distinct possiblity. I ask you, name me a nation that has divided without Civil War.........I can think of one....Czechoslovakia, and both the Czech Republic and Slovakia voted over-whelmingly in favour, and there were no territorial issues. Not so in Canada.


My view is that if Quebec wants to go, and can get a clear majority on a clear question, then fine, out they go. Without Ungava, or any other territory that wants to stay in Canada. The question of whether Quebec is divisible makes violence practically inevitable.

I kinda like the nation as it is.

As far as I'm concerned, Canada doesn't need quebec, but quebec sure as hell needs Canada

 

[Praxius]

Two words seldom spoken in Canada: Civil War.

no, I haven't "lost it". Yes, it is a very distinct possiblity. I ask you, name me a nation that has divided without Civil War.........I can think of one....Czechoslovakia, and both the Czech Republic and Slovakia voted over-whelmingly in favour, and there were no territorial issues. Not so in Canada.


My view is that if Quebec wants to go, and can get a clear majority on a clear question, then fine, out they go. Without Ungava, or any other territory that wants to stay in Canada. The question of whether Quebec is divisible makes violence practically inevitable.

I kinda like the nation as it is.

Fair enough. If Civil War occurs, it'll be pretty sad and pathetic, but come whatever may as I see it.

But a civil war in Canada? It is possible, but we never used violence to become our own nation, I'm pretty sure this could be resolved without any major conflicts.

And if Quebec is that divided about the idea to cause a civil war within, then I imagine the decision won't be made until all disputes are resolved.

But once again, who knows. All I know is that at this present time, the seperation of Quebec is not any real issue.

 

[Just the Facts]

My view is that if Quebec wants to go, and can get a clear majority on a clear question, then fine, out they go. Without Ungava, or any other territory that wants to stay in Canada. The question of whether Quebec is divisible makes violence practically inevitable.

:lol: Couldn't agree more!

Vive le Quebec Libre!:

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/023001/f1/1867-v5-e.jpg