Cops are becoming pansies

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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I thought you knew about the police Anna. They have not been allowed the use of the "choke hold" for years and years now. People also died with the use of the choke hold. So you want the gun gone, you want them to use the asp baton (it kills too), you want them to use the choke hold (already declared illegal) and Juan is wondering where the pepper spray is. If the guy used his fists and knocked the guy out cold you would all be yelling police brutality even if the guy lived to sue him. It just never ends does it! These police officers are using the tools they were taught to use - right or wrong in your eyes. What would any of you do on the spur of the moment in their place. I'm glad that I will never have to answer that question. The answers are so easy when you are not in the hot seat. It's like watching Wheel of Fortune or Millionaire. The answers are usually pretty easy until you are the one sitting on stage.

Probably a good analogy, VI. Thousands upon thousands of police files are generated across the country every day and out of those thousands there's possibly half a dozen that create real contraversy, the cops are the same as the butcher, baker and candle stick maker, the majority just doing their job. A few criminal scums make their way in to every profession.
 

Cannuck

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Feb 2, 2006
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These police officers are using the tools they were taught to use - right or wrong in your eyes. What would any of you do on the spur of the moment in their place. I'm glad that I will never have to answer that question. The answers are so easy when you are not in the hot seat. It's like watching Wheel of Fortune or Millionaire. The answers are usually pretty easy until you are the one sitting on stage.

"Idealism increases in direct proportion to one's distance from the problem." - John Galsworthy
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
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Due to the public outcry over a few incidents where a perp was killed by police,I can see where some police would be hesitent to use any force at all .Many police are unjured on the job each year and this costs the municipalities many millions of d0llars in benefits.If I was a cop, I would hate to have to decide on the spot to shoot to kill anyone, but would probably do it anyway.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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I hate having to explain what, to me, is as apparant as the nose on ones face.

The police "protect" the population from bad guys in country in much the same way as the soldier "protects" the population from bad guys outside the country. Yet, here you are bad mouthing the police for killing an apparent bad guy,
Wrong Gerry. I am expressing my disgust about a few particular police murdering a disabled guy. That's a huge difference, that apparently hasn't occurred to you.
yet when an innocent is killed by our military the reaction is, oh well, so sad, that's life.
Wrong again. Quit twisting what I say. What I did say was that if people want to enjoy their freedom and way of life they have to stand up to jerks who will take those wishes away from them. We hire soldiers to do that for us. Our soldiers in general do not go around intentionally killing innocent people. Some innocents get killed, which is sad. But the fact remains that if people kept their noses in their own backyards we wouldn't have wars. But they don't, so we do. It's reality. Escape it all you want, it won't go away.
Why does the military get a pass but the police don't?
They don't.
Why is this "murder", as goober has said, and a killed baby an "oh well"? Hypocracy much?
You have no idea what you are talking about.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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I thought you knew about the police Anna. They have not been allowed the use of the "choke hold" for years and years now. People also died with the use of the choke hold. So you want the gun gone, you want them to use the asp baton (it kills too), you want them to use the choke hold (already declared illegal) and Juan is wondering where the pepper spray is.
Quit twisting what I said. I only posted that bit about the chokehold to point out that there are other ways of taking down suspects than killing them.
If the guy used his fists and knocked the guy out cold you would all be yelling police brutality even if the guy lived to sue him.
Perhaps. It all depends upon reasonable force, doesn't it. a few cops beating someone half to death is excessive. Beating him till the cuffs are on and he can't harm anyone is reasonable.
It just never ends does it! These police officers are using the tools they were taught to use - right or wrong in your eyes. What would any of you do on the spur of the moment in their place.
What would I do? I would use my training to dissuade the guy from doing any damage. I have done it once before because I am trained. I would not plug the guy full of holes although I am trained in how to use firearms, too.
I'm glad that I will never have to answer that question. The answers are so easy when you are not in the hot seat. It's like watching Wheel of Fortune or Millionaire. The answers are usually pretty easy until you are the one sitting on stage.
So someone else's life is a game to you?
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Probably a good analogy, VI. Thousands upon thousands of police files are generated across the country every day and out of those thousands there's possibly half a dozen that create real contraversy, the cops are the same as the butcher, baker and candle stick maker, the majority just doing their job. A few criminal scums make their way in to every profession.
Exactly, and those are the ones I deplore. As I said, we have friends that are cops, but they are good cops. We do talk to them sometimes and they also have opinions about other cops who overuse their abilities.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Wrong Gerry. I am expressing my disgust about a few particular police murdering a disabled guy. That's a huge difference, that apparently hasn't occurred to you. Wrong again. Quit twisting what I say. What I did say was that if people want to enjoy their freedom and way of life they have to stand up to jerks who will take those wishes away from them. We hire soldiers to do that for us. Our soldiers in general do not go around intentionally killing innocent people. Some innocents get killed, which is sad. But the fact remains that if people kept their noses in their own backyards we wouldn't have wars. But they don't, so we do. It's reality. Escape it all you want, it won't go away. They don't. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Mostly right again Anna, some bad sh*t happens because of rotten individuals, but a lot of sh*t JUST happens.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Due to the public outcry over a few incidents where a perp was killed by police,I can see where some police would be hesitent to use any force at all .Many police are unjured on the job each year and this costs the municipalities many millions of d0llars in benefits.If I was a cop, I would hate to have to decide on the spot to shoot to kill anyone, but would probably do it anyway.
Stuff happens. Sometimes killing is necessary. But IMO this one was unnecessary. We're talking about copS with firearms and batons against 1 untrained guy with a mad-on and a bike chain.
BTW, one can use batons for more than just hitting
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Stuff happens. Sometimes killing is necessary. But IMO this one was unnecessary. We're talking about copS with firearms and batons against 1 untrained guy with a mad-on and a bike chain.
BTW, one can use batons for more than just hitting

Here's a point:

In the cop's defence....the guy was NOT stopped by multiple torso hits with a 9mm.

What makes you think a baton would have stopped him, short of killing him????

Don't get me wrong, since Juan enlightened me, I do have some problems with this shooting, but I am playing the Devil's Advocate.......

I am very "on the fence" here...
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Here's a point:

In the cop's defence....the guy was NOT stopped by multiple torso hits with a 9mm.

What makes you think a baton would have stopped him, short of killing him????

Don't get me wrong, since Juan enlightened me, I do have some problems with this shooting, but I am playing the Devil's Advocate.......

I am very "on the fence" here...

There are several things wrong with this whole situation . First, this bi-polar guy told his doctor that he was off his medication. Usually bi-polar patients are taking medication because without it, they exhibit behavior that is dangerous to themselves or others so the doctor knew that Boyd would eventually go off the deep end. The doctor should have warned the police or somebody. His family knew he was bi-polar and knew he was off his medication so they should have warned the police to be on the look out for him. I would like to think the police would have handled the guy differently if they knew about his mental problems. Maybe a team from Riverview(a mental institution) could have handled this better.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Wrong Gerry. I am expressing my disgust about a few particular police murdering a disabled guy.


Wrong, reread what you wrote in your opening OP...... that's the problem with the written.... not so easy to lie without getting caught.
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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There are several things wrong with this whole situation . First, this bi-polar guy told his doctor that he was off his medication. Usually bi-polar patients are taking medication because without it, they exhibit behavior that is dangerous to themselves or others so the doctor knew that Boyd would eventually go off the deep end. The doctor should have warned the police or somebody. His family knew he was bi-polar and knew he was off his medication so they should have warned the police to be on the look out for him. I would like to think the police would have handled the guy differently if they knew about his mental problems. Maybe a team from Riverview(a mental institution) could have handled this better.

You cannot force someone to take medication, unless they are hospitalized.
The doctor can't just call up the cops and tell them Bobby aint takin' his pills. That would put the doctor in trouble.
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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You cannot force someone to take medication, unless they are hospitalized.
The doctor can't just call up the cops and tell them Bobby aint takin' his pills. That would put the doctor in trouble.

Since the guy is not responsible, somebody else has to be. I realise a lot of this medication has unpleasant side-effects, which is why patients want to get off it but the alternative is much worse. Somebody should have alerted the authorities. This guy literally committed suicide with help from the police. Would the police have acted differently had they known of his condition? We'll never know will we?
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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Here's a point:

In the cop's defence....the guy was NOT stopped by multiple torso hits with a 9mm.

What makes you think a baton would have stopped him, short of killing him????
Without knocking him out? I am thinking that cops use what I would call tonfa:
The weapon is used in pairs and is of wood, again red oak or white oak preferably in keeping with the Bo. The length of the weapon is also the same requirements as the Sai, about three centimetres past the elbow when gripped. The weight like the Bo is paramount to the efficient usage of the weapon. Too light and it lacks power in Kumite, too heavy and the techniques lack speed and become ponderous. Again like the Sai there are three grips, Honte-Mochi (Natural), Gyakute-Mochi (Reverse) and Tokushu-Mochi (Special grip). The latter is not commonly used but is very effective and relates strongly to the techniques of Kama. The Tonfa is held in the hand with the length lying along the underarm. When choosing a Tonfa, holding the handle, the length should just reach past your elbow. The Tonfa is an excellent weapon for both defensive and offensive techniques, as it provides protection for the arms against striking weapons, and at the same time this weapons can be used or striking, with both the shorter and the longer end.
By spinning the tonfa around the short handle, a great tremendous striking force may be generated. By using the long portion in conjunction with the short handle, the tonfa may be used for arm locks or to control an opponent. When held by the handle and flipped with speed and power, the tonfa has the same deadly potential as a baseball bat or a club moves faster, and is easier to control so watch out.
http://www.wle.com/store/saitonfas.html
Don't get me wrong, since Juan enlightened me, I do have some problems with this shooting, but I am playing the Devil's Advocate.......

I am very "on the fence" here...
Well, IMO this is no different (except for the weapon used by the police) than the Robert Dziekanski tragedy.
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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I realise a lot of this medication has unpleasant side-effects, which is why patients want to get off it but the alternative is much worse. Somebody should have alerted the authorities. This guy literally committed suicide with help from the police. Would the police have acted differently had they known of his condition? We'll never know will we?

YouTube - Sucofucolox: the side-effect medication
 

Goober

Hall of Fame Member
Jan 23, 2009
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Moving
Here's a point:

In the cop's defence....the guy was NOT stopped by multiple torso hits with a 9mm.

What makes you think a baton would have stopped him, short of killing him????

Don't get me wrong, since Juan enlightened me, I do have some problems with this shooting, but I am playing the Devil's Advocate.......

I am very "on the fence" here...
ColpyAfter 3 or 4 shots - no attempt was made to restrain - Last shot thru the head - If he was wearing body armor a 9mm shot would not knock him to the ground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOWSDtxERUhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOWSDtxERU
 

Dixie Cup

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Sep 16, 2006
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We have a local radio program called "Cop Talk" every Saturday afternoon. Callers are invited to call in and ask questions, etc. They have stated that they are trained to "shoot to kill" not shoot to hit someone in the knee or hand like in the movies. They also said that most police officers won't carry a taser because if things go wrong, the public outcry invariably puts them in the untenable position of having to "justify" its use in the long, arduous process of the investigation. It's a no-win situation for the most part. Policing isn't for wimps and I applaud every single one of them - I know I couldn't do the job, that's for sure!
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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We have a local radio program called "Cop Talk" every Saturday afternoon. Callers are invited to call in and ask questions, etc. They have stated that they are trained to "shoot to kill" not shoot to hit someone in the knee or hand like in the movies. They also said that most police officers won't carry a taser because if things go wrong, the public outcry invariably puts them in the untenable position of having to "justify" its use in the long, arduous process of the investigation. It's a no-win situation for the most part. Policing isn't for wimps and I applaud every single one of them - I know I couldn't do the job, that's for sure!

Gotta agree with all of that.
 

VanIsle

Always thinking
Nov 12, 2008
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We have a local radio program called "Cop Talk" every Saturday afternoon. Callers are invited to call in and ask questions, etc. They have stated that they are trained to "shoot to kill" not shoot to hit someone in the knee or hand like in the movies. They also said that most police officers won't carry a taser because if things go wrong, the public outcry invariably puts them in the untenable position of having to "justify" its use in the long, arduous process of the investigation. It's a no-win situation for the most part. Policing isn't for wimps and I applaud every single one of them - I know I couldn't do the job, that's for sure!
You are exactly right and they are trained to shoot to kill if they are going to shoot at all.