Christian Intelligence

[L Gilbert]

I have to admit having the word choir in there didn't elevate you up to the top of the list at first.
Now that I apply that to your specific view of God troll is not the right term, my bad.
Goes to show whey verification is needed as first impressions aren't always the full and final version.

What your term means and how you arrive at it is a far reach from the biblical God that there is a lot less than any similarity and the near and dear version you do have about it that any other version should have just as many errors.
You had to invent God from scratch, my version was invented by somebody else. If I am going to define God as anything that version works just fine for me and that is a conclusion reached after covering a great amount of it in some detail. You can have the figurative version, the literal version is the only one that deserves to be worshiped anyway. How deep of a conversation can you get into with people (you two specifically) when even the explanation is gibberish to you. That doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion and I fail to see how that position makes you the 'one with the best explanation')

"when even the explanation is gibberish to you." and that's perhaps you're the only one on the planet who has any idea of what your interpretation says is the explanation. You seem to have decided what the Bible means at any point whereas other biblical scholars are still squabbling over its meanings .... a self-proclaimed expert, as it were. I've seen many self-proclaimed experts that are so offtrack it's pathetic, though, and your postulations are decidedly lacking. So as I consider the Bible to be a tomb of stuff that might have worth in showing how people could get along together, it should not be taken literally from a realistic POV.

 

[Walter]

I've noticed that your redimarking again Walt.

Never stopped.

 

[Cliffy]

I have to admit having the word choir in there didn't elevate you up to the top of the list at first.
Now that I apply that to your specific view of God troll is not the right term, my bad.
Goes to show whey verification is needed as first impressions aren't always the full and final version.

What your term means and how you arrive at it is a far reach from the biblical God that there is a lot less than any similarity and the near and dear version you do have about it that any other version should have just as many errors.
You had to invent God from scratch, my version was invented by somebody else. If I am going to define God as anything that version works just fine for me and that is a conclusion reached after covering a great amount of it in some detail. You can have the figurative version, the literal version is the only one that deserves to be worshiped anyway. How deep of a conversation can you get into with people (you two specifically) when even the explanation is gibberish to you. That doesn't leave a lot of room for discussion and I fail to see how that position makes you the 'one with the best explanation')

The thing is Htz, I have dealt into the matter for a lot longer than you. I have spoken to hundreds of so called Christians and read dozens of books, all of whom have different interpretations. But yours is so far from any other that I have come across, I cannot follow your train of thought at all. You post verse after verse of stuff and say this is what it means and yet, not even Christian or biblical scholars will agree with you.

I have met quite a few Christians who claim to have had divine inspiration as to the meanings of certain passages, but none who claim to have come up with a divinely inspired interpretation of the whole book, as you claim. You are definitely unique in your interpretation. I'm sure that if you dedicated as much time and effort into interpreting Lord of the Rings, you would come up with something just as unique. Doesn't mean that it would mean anything to anybody else, But your effort would be just as rewarding.

I met a guy once who spent time interpreting Sichin's The Twelfth Planet and he had it all decoded and interpreted too. He figured the biblical god was an alien from Nibaru and was on his way back to smite humanity for being so uppity. He also figured only he knew how to appease this angry god and was setting up a plan to survive in this god's favour. You remind me very much of him.

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'
Biblical scholars will be appearing at the 'Covert Messiah' Conference at Conway Hall in London on the 19th of October to present this controversial discovery to the British public.

American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013).

Although to many scholars his theory seems outlandish, and is sure to upset some believers, Atwill regards his evidence as conclusive and is confident its acceptance is only a matter of time. "I present my work with some ambivalence, as I do not want to directly cause Christians any harm," he acknowledges, "but this is important for our culture. Alert citizens need to know the truth about our past so we can understand how and why governments create false histories and false gods. They often do it to obtain a social order that is against the best interests of the common people."

Atwill asserts that Christianity did not really begin as a religion, but a sophisticated government project, a kind of propaganda exercise used to pacify the subjects of the Roman Empire. "Jewish sects in Palestine at the time, who were waiting for a prophesied warrior Messiah, were a constant source of violent insurrection during the first century," he explains. "When the Romans had exhausted conventional means of quashing rebellion, they switched to psychological warfare. They surmised that the way to stop the spread of zealous Jewish missionary activity was to create a competing belief system. That's when the 'peaceful' Messiah story was invented. Instead of inspiring warfare, this Messiah urged turn-the-other-cheek pacifism and encouraged Jews to 'give onto Caesar' and pay their taxes to Rome."

Was Jesus based on a real person from history? "The short answer is no," Atwill insists, "in fact he may be the only fictional character in literature whose entire life story can be traced to other sources. Once those sources are all laid bare, there's simply nothing left."
Atwill's most intriguing discovery came to him while he was studying "Wars of the Jews" by Josephus [the only surviving first-person historical account of first-century Judea] alongside the New Testament. "I started to notice a sequence of parallels between the two texts," he recounts. "Although it's been recognised by Christian scholars for centuries that the prophesies of Jesus appear to be fulfilled by what Josephus wrote about in the First Jewish-Roman war, I was seeing dozens more. What seems to have eluded many scholars is that the sequence of events and locations of Jesus ministry are more or less the same as the sequence of events and locations of the military campaign of [Emperor] Titus Flavius as described by Josephus. This is clear evidence of a deliberately constructed pattern. The biography of Jesus is actually constructed, tip to stern, on prior stories, but especially on the biography of a Roman Caesar."

How could this go unnoticed in the most scrutinised books of all time? "Many of the parallels are conceptual or poetic, so they aren't all immediately obvious. After all, the authors did not want the average believer to see what they were doing, but they did want the alert reader to see it. An educated Roman in the ruling class would probably have recognised the literary game being played." Atwill maintains he can demonstrate that "the Roman Caesars left us a kind of puzzle literature that was meant to be solved by future generations, and the solution to that puzzle is 'We invented Jesus Christ, and we're proud of it.'"

Is this the beginning of the end of Christianity? "Probably not," grants Atwill, "but what my work has done is give permission to many of those ready to leave the religion to make a clean break. We've got the evidence now to show exactly where the story of Jesus came from. Although Christianity can be a comfort to some, it can also be very damaging and repressive, an insidious form of mind control that has led to blind acceptance of serfdom, poverty, and war throughout history. To this day, especially in the United States, it is used to create support for war in the Middle East."

Atwill encourages skeptics to challenge him at Conway Hall, where after the presentations there is likely to be a lively Q&A session. Joining Mr.Atwill will be fellow scholar Kenneth Humphreys, author of the book "Jesus Never Existed."
Further information can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013.

About Joseph Atwill: Joseph Atwill is the author of the best-selling book "Caesar's Messiah" and its upcoming sequel "The Single Strand."

 

[Spade]

As usual, no two Christians can define what a Christian is.
Pacifist or hawk?
Socialist or exultant capitalist?
Literal interpretation or metaphor
Jesus as divinity or prophet
Evolution or creation myth
Etc.
Talk to me when we can agree on a definition. Don't say, "It's up to the individual. There is no orthodoxy."

 

[PoliticalNick]

Here ya go MHz, now you can stop posting every f*cking chapter and verse. you can just reference the book, chapter & verse and those who might want to read it can just go here....

https://www.bible.com/bible/1/jhn.1.kjv

That way you save us time on the page and room on the servers.

 

[karrie]

As usual, no two Christians can define what a Christian is.
Pacifist or hawk?
Socialist or exultant capitalist?
Literal interpretation or metaphor
Jesus as divinity or prophet
Evolution or creation myth
Etc.
Talk to me when we can agree on a definition. Don't say, "It's up to the individual. There is no orthodoxy."

Why do you demand a concrete definition when you're talking about humans? Is there any one philosophy, viewpoint, lifestyle, that guarantees how an individual will think and behave?

 

[Spade]

Tom Harpur On The Pagan Roots Of Christianity - YouTube

Why do you demand a concrete definition when you're talking about humans? Is there any one philosophy, viewpoint, lifestyle, that guarantees how an individual will think and behave?

Of course not; that is my point. But christianity is always presented in argument as a monolithic set of beliefs to which all should adhere, even though those standards cannot be articulated. The OP implies some external standard.

 

[MHz]

The thing is Htz, I have dealt into the matter for a lot longer than you. I have spoken to hundreds of so called Christians and read dozens of books, all of whom have different interpretations.

If we compared Bibles yours would be in pristine condition and a lot of mine would have dog-eared pages. It isn't a quest to see how much can be memorized in a large book, it is seeing what connections were put in there that needed discovery that just wasn't possible on the first read. Movies like Swordfish has parts that are better understood in hindsight. If a passage has 5 parts to it and one part is crystal clear in meaning and the rest cause you to have to think and even that may not clear the matter up. Coming back after you have read a lot of other verses may mean that 3 things are clear and one more time and all 5 would be able to be related to other such references so the 5 parts actually have 25 references in all

But yours is so far from any other that I have come across, I cannot follow your train of thought at all. You post verse after verse of stuff and say this is what it means and yet, not even Christian or biblical scholars will agree with you.

How can mine be so different if you have studied Christian Theology so much?
Snow, you have heard of it right, did they have any in the time you flood story took place. You are all hot to take the bible as being figurative yet if Noah has never seen snow and there was a lot of snow in the flood then his version of the high hills and mountains getting 22.5 ft of 'rain' and it stayed for 150 days after the rain stopped. Where is the outlandish part that any scholar could destroy? Both that my version is wrong and that it could not be snow that Noah saw. That is the same men that agree that the Bible promotes God poofing in several trillion cubic miles of water in 40 days, those are the guys you should be backing away from. (as far as having any clue about Scripture)

I have met quite a few Christians who claim to have had divine inspiration as to the meanings of certain passages, but none who claim to have come up with a divinely inspired interpretation of the whole book, as you claim.

What would you prefer, listening to the various claims (like you have) or listen to the verses and the explanation that goes with it in the times you find the doctrine confusing.`Even the parables need some sort of introduction. As far as a preface the translators did a good job on their introduction to the Bible as being our introduction to God. I have no problem saying I had to raed the whole docment a few times before there were just a few, 'Whats??'
(in part)
Zeal to promote the common good, whether it be by devising anything ourselves, or revising that which hath been laboured by others, deserveth certainly much respect and esteem, but yet findeth but cold entertainment in the world. It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned. This will easily be granted by as many as know story, or have any experience. For, was there ever any-projected, that savoured any way of newness or renewing, but the same endured many a storm of gainsaying, or opposition? A man would think that Civility, wholesome Laws, learning and eloquence, Synods, and Church-maintenance, (that we speak of no more things of this kind) should be as safe as a Sanctuary, and out of shot, as they say, that no man would lift up the heel, no, nor dog move his tongue against the motioners of them. For by the first, we are distinguished from brute beasts lead with sensuality; By the second, we are bridled and restrained from outrageous behaviour, and from doing of injuries, whether by fraud or by violence; By the third, we are enabled to inform and reform others, by the light and feeling that we have attained unto ourselves; Briefly, by the fourth being brought together to a parley face to face, we sooner compose our differences than by writings which are endless; ...

You are definitely unique in your interpretation.

The early RCC Church would be proud of you, different = wrong 100% of the time, no matter what the facts say.

I'm sure that if you dedicated as much time and effort into interpreting Lord of the Rings, you would come up with something just as unique.

There need to be a 4th book, one that brings everybody back from the grave in a healed fashion, still has the fingers piercing the sjy and the scenery being peeled back like on old scroll and a booming voice says, 'What's going on in here??' Some plots don't need changing. Perhaps if I charged you by the question you would be more inclined to believe the answer, after all that mirrors your past or were they paying you to be the student?

Doesn't mean that it would mean anything to anybody else, But your effort would be just as rewarding.

Lets go something more practical, say I wanted to go into justice to a certain degree, would I make a lawyer that is capable of suing somebody for a lot of money and be smart enough to win or become a medical practitioner that is short of brain surgery, would I be able to do those tasks properly? The answer better be yes because those are my new hobbies.

I met a guy once who spent time interpreting Sichin's The Twelfth Planet and he had it all decoded and interpreted too. He figured the biblical god was an alien from Nibaru and was on his way back to smite humanity for being so uppity.

What if Stitchen was just supposed to decipher the words and somebody else was supposed to put them in the right context, would that make them divine writings? I don't think so as it could take a Christian to properly understand the OT as the current understanding does not use all the available material before a decision is arrived at.

He also figured only he knew how to appease this angry god and was setting up a plan to survive in this god's favour. You remind me very much of him.

At this point you are beginning to scare me in that you should know by know between you and God it is you who is the angry one.

I try to limit my ****ing with people's heads, it's too easy to get used to doing it, or blow a gasket when you meet resistance. Best applied before you are deceived than after you are already inflicted which would sort of seal it in.

...set of beliefs to which all should adhere, even though those standards cannot be articulated. ....

Seriously ?? God even uses short sentences to help us swallow the words.

Ro:13:5-9:
Wherefore ye must needs be subject,
not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Ro:13:6:
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers,
attending continually upon this very thing.
Ro:13:7:
Render therefore to all their dues:
tribute to whom tribute is due;
custom to whom custom;
fear to whom fear;
honour to whom honour.
Ro:13:8:
Owe no man any thing,
but to love one another:
for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro:13:9:
For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill,
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;
and if there be any other commandment,
it is briefly comprehended in this saying,
namely,
Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[Spade]

Thanks

 

[Nuggler]

Christian Intelligence: Eg. of oxymoron.

gotta love that word.


Oxy-----like a ox, eh.

moron..........like a moron, eh.

Christian......like a both, eh.

Me, I like-a pizza.

:lol:

"""American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013).""""


It gave the poor, downtrodden, Christians a reason to believe as they were driven into the arena to be fed to the lions, or torn apart by baboons.
Good on the Romans. They had heart.

Imagine; someone gets paid for presenting this "controversial new discovery"

 

[Cliffy]

Imagine; someone gets paid for presenting this "controversial new discovery"

Stranger yet is that people will probably pay to hear what he has to say.

 

[petros]

Einstein who stayed religious to the day he died said it best in a heated debate over Quantum Theory and probabilities...

God doesn't roll the dice.

Christian Intelligence: Eg. of oxymoron.

gotta love that word.


Oxy-----like a ox, eh.

moron..........like a moron, eh.

Christian......like a both, eh.

Me, I like-a pizza.

:lol:

"""American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing before the British public for the first time in London on the 19th of October to present a controversial new discovery: ancient confessions recently uncovered now prove, according to Atwill, that the New Testament was written by first-century Roman aristocrats and that they fabricated the entire story of Jesus Christ. His presentation will be part of a one-day symposium entitled "Covert Messiah" at Conway Hall in Holborn (full details can be found at Covert Messiah - 19 October 2013).""""


It gave the poor, downtrodden, Christians a reason to believe as they were driven into the arena to be fed to the lions, or torn apart by baboons.
Good on the Romans. They had heart.

Imagine; someone gets paid for presenting this "controversial new discovery"

He existed alright...some kids will do anything to get of going to Church.

 

[Motar]

As usual, no two Christians can define what a Christian is.

In my experience, Spade, defining Christian is easy enough - the Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos)—meaning "follower of Christ."
Defining Christ is just as simple —comes from the Greek word Χριστός (Christos)—meaning "anointed one."

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Einstein who stayed religious to the day he died said it best in a heated debate over Quantum Theory and probabilities...

God doesn't roll the dice.

It appears Einstein was wrong about that, but he was not religious in any conventional sense and was always perfectly clear about that. He had no belief in a personal god who intervenes in the world and thought such beliefs were a bit juvenile.

 

[darkbeaver]

But in general i agree... Christianity sharpens the wit and the mind. In fact the entire Western scientific, artistic and philosophical heritage can be set directly at Christianity's feet.. the fore runner and inspirational resource of it all.

Exercise sharpens the mind. You have been lazy. Crowing about the illustrious western civilization now in it's readily observable terminal period of decline exemplifies the useless nature of faith. Your confession is duly noted, I wonder if you will be so excitedly inclined to accept the judgements for eighteen hundred years of horrific error. There are none so blind.

As usual, no two Christians can define what a Christian is.

In my experience, Spade, defining Christian is easy enough - the Greek word Χριστιανός (Christianos)—meaning "follower of Christ."
Defining Christ is just as simple —comes from the Greek word Χριστός (Christos)—meaning "anointed one."

file:///C:/Users/argon/Downloads/CASE OF THE MISSING MESSIAH.htmThere is not space here to enter into any comprehensive dissertation on these remarkable finds, but a summary of the stronger implications in the case might be condensed in the general statement that the books found in the great jars in the Dead Sea caves add close to overpowering testimony to the thesis that Christianity owes less and less to occurrences allegedly taking place in the early part of the first Christian century, and more and more to literary units that were extant certainly antecedent to "the time of Christ". If one might seize upon the phrase just used to present the new situation epigrammatically, it might be said that if the first thirty-three years of the first

11​

century A.D. may be legitimately dubbed the "time of Christ", certainly the period reaching back as far as the third century B.C. might just as justifiably be termed the "time of the Christos".
Fully equal in calamitous consequences for world religion with the transposition of the pronoun "It" to the pronoun "He," was the similar transposition of meaning from the prior use of the Greek term Christos (rather always ho Christos, the Christos) over to the Anglicized "Christ". For the shift of terms eventuated ultimately in a shift of the meaning, with practically the fate of millions of Europe’s best people determined by the issue, from the Christos as a spiritually immanent principle of divine consciousness germinating in the hearts and minds of all humanity, over to "Christ", the man of Galilee. The first meaning sanified, rationalized and exalted all human understanding of the significance and value of our earthly life, as the nursery bed of an experience that would birth the Christ(os) in all mankind; the second demeaned, derationalized and depressed all such human conceptions by depriving all humanity save one lone individual of the divine potential. For the exaltation and apotheosization of one solitary man to cosmic grandeur and exclusive Godhood inevitably reduced all others to spiritual poverty. His exaltation to celestial status and unique relation to the Father debased all other humans, for none could rise to stand beside the solitary paragon. The wretchedly bungled translation of the Greek monogenes as "only-begotten", in reference to the Christos principle, became, when that immanent principle was transmogrified into the carnalized man of Judea, the bond of a mental hypnotization that crucified all afresh the divine initiative and prerogative of man’s inalienable intellectual genius.

 

[Motar]

In what way(s) does Christianity sharpen intelligence?

"Social Intelligence = Interacting successfully with others in various contexts" Theory of Social Intelligence

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 7:12 NIV)
In this verse, Jesus summarizes the contents of the Old Testament with a social teaching. What other social instructions are present in Christianity? In what other ways does Christianity contribute to social intelligence?

Exercise sharpens the mind.

I so agree, DB.

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." (Proverbs 27:17 NIV)

 

[JLM]

Christian Intelligence: Eg. of oxymoron.

gotta love that word.


Oxy-----like a ox, eh.

moron..........like a moron, eh.

Christian......like a both, eh.

Me, I like-a pizza.

:lol:

"""American Biblical scholar Joseph Atwill will be appearing "

"Biblical scholar".................is that perhaps another oxymoron? -

 

[darkbeaver]

First of all the term "CHRISTIAN INTELLIGENCE" is insulting and discriminatory to the rest of the inhabitants of the planet who are confined to using plain old human intelligence. This insult very cavalierly laid upon us heathens certainly supports the oxymoronic contention about the term Christian intelligence. The reasonably intelligent would not flaunt their sense of superiority. Pride was always the Meat Chistians ailment.

 

[Motar]

First of all the term "CHRISTIAN INTELLIGENCE" is insulting and discriminatory to the rest of the inhabitants of the planet who are confined to using plain old human intelligence. This insult very cavalierly laid upon us heathens certainly supports the oxymoronic contention about the term Christian intelligence. The reasonably intelligent would not flaunt their sense of superiority. Pride was always the Meat Chistians ailment.

There is a bright, red admonition that reads: "Please choose something descriptive!!" next to the title box at the beginning of the thread, DB. That was the main inspiration behind the thread title "Christian Intelligence" : )

 

[Dexter Sinister]

In fact the entire Western scientific, artistic and philosophical heritage can be set directly at Christianity's feet.. the fore runner and inspirational resource of it all.

What preposterous nonsense. Christianity has resisted every advance in culture and civilization from the beginning, and continues a desperate rearguard action. The Renaissance, the Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, happened in spite of it, not because of it. Much of the history of the last 400 years in the West can be understood as Christianity retreating from making claims about the nature of things in the face of the scientific revolution.