Keep up the good work, Beav. The sheeple need to be shaken up. Too many parrot the government sanctioned BS. The corporate dictatorship of the US of Aggression does not like anybody who opposes their agenda. Chavez did a good job of pissing them off.
Chavez... tick tick tick
- Thread starter EagleSmack
- Start date
Keep up the good work, Beav. The sheeple need to be shaken up. Too many parrot the government sanctioned BS. The corporate dictatorship of the US of Aggression does not like anybody who opposes their agenda. Chavez did a good job of pissing them off.
A democratically elected one.
As long as your happy with it that`s all that really matters. Their illusion is just a lil thinner veiled than ours.
I hear in Atlanta, when Chavez won a group of liberals were dancing in the streets saying it was a great day for freedom. They were all holding Obama signs. :roll:
I've never seen proof that Chavez ran death squads.. like those of CIA (and Henry Kissinger's) assets Pinochet and Videla.
I liked some of his ideas.. like creating venture capital funds for cottage industries in the barrios of Caracas. He was initially a 'Third Way' capitalist.. rejecting Free Market ideology.. but accepting a sophisticated interplay of public and private enterprise. But he gradually rejected that for a more doctrinaire Socialist model.
His nationalization of the oil industry, a process that preceded his regime by 20 years, but which he finalized, is something Canada should take note of.. extraction, primary processing and distribution of oil is a natural monopoly.. and should be publicly owned in all nations. (Whereas the retail end should be left in the private domain.. something Petro Canada got a$$ backwards)
And i got a chuckle out of his UN speech a few years ago.. when he appeared some time after George W. Bush.. and noted the smell of sulfur was still in the air... i had to think.. yup he's got a point. It's the only UN speech that i can remember.
Basicly though.. pure Socialism is a failed experiment.. it just doesn't work.. it leads to tyranny.. JUST LIKE.. unfettered free market Capitalism.. as we are seeing now throughout the First World.
I liked some of his ideas.. like creating venture capital funds for cottage industries in the barrios of Caracas. He was initially a 'Third Way' capitalist.. rejecting Free Market ideology.. but accepting a sophisticated interplay of public and private enterprise. But he gradually rejected that for a more doctrinaire Socialist model.
His nationalization of the oil industry, a process that preceded his regime by 20 years, but which he finalized, is something Canada should take note of.. extraction, primary processing and distribution of oil is a natural monopoly.. and should be publicly owned in all nations. (Whereas the retail end should be left in the private domain.. something Petro Canada got a$$ backwards)
And i got a chuckle out of his UN speech a few years ago.. when he appeared some time after George W. Bush.. and noted the smell of sulfur was still in the air... i had to think.. yup he's got a point. It's the only UN speech that i can remember.
Basicly though.. pure Socialism is a failed experiment.. it just doesn't work.. it leads to tyranny.. JUST LIKE.. unfettered free market Capitalism.. as we are seeing now throughout the First World.
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Jesus was a successful capitalist who made his fortune curing disease, turning water into wine and feeding the multitudes with a few fish and loaves of bread. Jesus sold space in heaven for wealthy people and died a wealthy old man.
Seriously, many Christians have forgotten that Christianity is supposed to be about peace, love, compassion and charity
Pat Robertson wants to kill Hugo Chavez - YouTube
Seriously, many Christians have forgotten that Christianity is supposed to be about peace, love, compassion and charity
Pat Robertson wants to kill Hugo Chavez - YouTube
Chávez is a Catholic. He intended at one time to become a priest. He sees his socialist policies (Liberation Theology) as having roots in the teachings of Jesus Christ,[368] and he publicly used the slogan of "Christ is with the Revolution!"[369] He has had some disputes with both the Venezuelan Catholic clergy and Protestant groups like the New Tribes Mission.[370][371] Although he has traditionally kept his own faith a private matter, Chávez has over the course of his presidency become increasingly open to discussing his religious views, stating that both his faith and his version of Jesus' personal life and ideology have had a profound impact on his Liberation Theology.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Personal_life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez#Personal_life
Hugo Chavez has done far more for Venezuela's poor and middle class than any recent US President or Canadian PM for their poor and middle class. Chavez have even done more for poor Americans than Bush did.
Many poor Americans are so screwed up they think Chavez is a threat while Bush is a saint. Talk about screwed up....
Many poor Americans are so screwed up they think Chavez is a threat while Bush is a saint. Talk about screwed up....
As usual both sides of the debate are overreaching a bit.
Chavez is not a psychopathic mass murderer.
And he did win mostly kinda-sorta semi-democratic elections.
Having said that he has done enormous damage to Venezuela.
EAO is right when he says Chavez has done more for the poor than any previous elected Venezuelan.
It was vote buying and it set the country back decades.
He gutted national and international companies located in Venezuela, looted the treasury and pretty much destroyed the national oil company.
And then he did spend a big chunk of that looted money on providing goods and services for the voting poor.
And ran the national debt through the roof.
Socialist bliss.
But it never works and it has set development in Venezuela back decades or perhaps forever.
And he is indeed a thug, a populist Bolivarian thug to be sure but still a thug.
Venezuela was doing quite nicely pre Chavez.
A bit of a corrupt banana republic but still steadily moving forward.
Massive oil reserves, some say the largest in the world.
Infrastructure and jobs developing nicely as far as I could see.
A bit dodgy in spots with a typical SA crime rate.
And now?
Hell Cuba did a better job.
PDVSA is totally hooped. Development and infrastructure is toast. Foreign investment has bolted. The crime rate in Caracas is the highest in the world.
Currency flight is ongoing and the brain drain is massive.
But hey, socialist paradise right?
I always wonder why folks like coldstream, eao and darkbeaver don’t just push off and try out the glories of socialism in its heartlands for themselves.
Plane tickets are cheap.
Instead of ranting on about the glories of it all while sitting cozily at home in Canada.
As to me.
Worked and lived in Cuba, worked in Russia and China.
Worked in Venezuela, have Venezuelan friends and acquaintances.
Seen the destruction of PDVSA .
Seen how Canadian and American companies have gladly welcomed the flight of highly educated Venezuelan nationals.
I am not really into knocking Socialist or Communist countries.
Spent too much time in them.
Good people.
Nice people.
Socalism and Communism slowly moving to Democracy and Capitlalism seems to work, more or less.
Democracy to Socalism or Commuinism seems to be pretty regressive and painful to me.
But like I said before.
Plane tickets are cheap.
Go check out the in's and out's of other places, other ideas, other political systems.
Chavez is not a psychopathic mass murderer.
And he did win mostly kinda-sorta semi-democratic elections.
Having said that he has done enormous damage to Venezuela.
EAO is right when he says Chavez has done more for the poor than any previous elected Venezuelan.
It was vote buying and it set the country back decades.
He gutted national and international companies located in Venezuela, looted the treasury and pretty much destroyed the national oil company.
And then he did spend a big chunk of that looted money on providing goods and services for the voting poor.
And ran the national debt through the roof.
Socialist bliss.
But it never works and it has set development in Venezuela back decades or perhaps forever.
And he is indeed a thug, a populist Bolivarian thug to be sure but still a thug.
Venezuela was doing quite nicely pre Chavez.
A bit of a corrupt banana republic but still steadily moving forward.
Massive oil reserves, some say the largest in the world.
Infrastructure and jobs developing nicely as far as I could see.
A bit dodgy in spots with a typical SA crime rate.
And now?
Hell Cuba did a better job.
PDVSA is totally hooped. Development and infrastructure is toast. Foreign investment has bolted. The crime rate in Caracas is the highest in the world.
Currency flight is ongoing and the brain drain is massive.
But hey, socialist paradise right?
I always wonder why folks like coldstream, eao and darkbeaver don’t just push off and try out the glories of socialism in its heartlands for themselves.
Plane tickets are cheap.
Instead of ranting on about the glories of it all while sitting cozily at home in Canada.
As to me.
Worked and lived in Cuba, worked in Russia and China.
Worked in Venezuela, have Venezuelan friends and acquaintances.
Seen the destruction of PDVSA .
Seen how Canadian and American companies have gladly welcomed the flight of highly educated Venezuelan nationals.
I am not really into knocking Socialist or Communist countries.
Spent too much time in them.
Good people.
Nice people.
Socalism and Communism slowly moving to Democracy and Capitlalism seems to work, more or less.
Democracy to Socalism or Commuinism seems to be pretty regressive and painful to me.
But like I said before.
Plane tickets are cheap.
Go check out the in's and out's of other places, other ideas, other political systems.
Chavez that blood thirsty mass murderer!
...tick tick tick
You mean Joe Kennedy. Chavez tried to cut off the oil to Joe's Citizens Energy Corp. and the Kennedy's made their lapdog Hugo Chavez heel. As soon as Joe Kennedy released to the press that Chavez was cutting off the FREE OIL to Joe's money making scam, Chavez came crawling to to the feet of the Kennedy's begging to give them free oil.
FREE OIL to people who live 10 times better than Venezuelans. LMAO. SUCKERS!
I bet Hugo's smelling a faint whiff of sulfur now.
...tick tick tick
You mean Joe Kennedy. Chavez tried to cut off the oil to Joe's Citizens Energy Corp. and the Kennedy's made their lapdog Hugo Chavez heel. As soon as Joe Kennedy released to the press that Chavez was cutting off the FREE OIL to Joe's money making scam, Chavez came crawling to to the feet of the Kennedy's begging to give them free oil.
FREE OIL to people who live 10 times better than Venezuelans. LMAO. SUCKERS!
I bet Hugo's smelling a faint whiff of sulfur now.
Perhaps...
But, certainly not on the same order as Archbishop Oscar Romero or the three nuns and the lay worker who in 1980 were assassinated by right-wing military death-squads in El Salvador. Romero as a supporter of liberation theology advocated social justice for the poor, and the nuns ministered to the poor as a practical expression of that theology.
Romero's case for sainthood has stalled. Some argue it has slowed because then Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict XVI)in 1984 accused liberation theologians as susceptible to Markist thought, banning the movement.
Chavez never looted the national treasurery. During his term he's reduced their debt to GDP ratio:
Want to talk about looting the treasury? Compare Chavez's record with recent US presidents:
Chavez has looted and stolen from the treasury has has seized private assets for his own personal use and those of his henchmen. No wonder his economy is in shambles.
So Venezuela did not run up a debt to increase the living standards of the poor. What they did was they started charging big oil companies more than a token amount of royalties for Venezuelan oil and then spent that money on health care, education, housing increasing the productivity of Venezuelans. Compare that to the US, which in 2008, bailed out failing banks by borrowing more money and ran the national debt through the roof. Sooner or later Americans are going to have to pay their bills and when that day comes, then you can say how well unrestrained greed and capitalism work.
I admit I am a socialist, but not the way you think socialism works (or doesn't work). Like Hugo Chavez, I am fiscally conservative. I don't believe in deficit financing. INterest is a waste of money. I believe in increasing taxes to pay for social programs that raise productivity and care for the sick and elderly. The more you earn, the more you should pay. I am against minimum wage provided that a minimum living standard is guarenteed. Basic food, clothing, shelter and health care should be free, so a minimum wage is not required to have a minimum living standard. I also believe in free merit based post secondary education. I am against welathy billionaires like Mitt Romney paying no taxes or less taxes than single mothers working 3 part time jobs to scrape by. If the money is made in Canada than it gets taxed by Canada. If any billionaire Canadians want to leave, feel free, just make sure you pay your taxes first before leaving and any money you make in Canada still gets taxed by Canada. Want to ship jobs off to the third world? Feel free. Good luck with third world instability, corruption and an uneducated work force.
Many people here in Canada and the US don't realize that we've had class warfare for several decades now. The wealthiest people have been getting wealthier at the expense of a shrinking middle class and growing lower class. I'm in favor of new wealth going mostly to the poor and middle class and increasing the taxes of the wealthiest people. The more you make the more you pay. If you live at or below the poverty line you should be a net tax recipient.
Rereading my last post, I realize that I misspelt "Marxist." My apologies to Boomer, ES, Groucho, Harpo , and Benny XVI.