Besides, even if it seems I don't know what I am talking about, I will still know more than all the conservatives in the world.
Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.
- Thread starter zoofer
- Start date
Jersay said:
I don't know, I've read a lot of your posts, there's no way you know more than, moi. 8)
RE: Can a Christian be a
Even the term conservative has been highjacked and lost it's meaning, conservation is and was a good thing, it's modern use by those who pretent to be conservative is a crime against the language, something the right wingers do
to confuse thier purposes, they hide behind the language and they hide in the temples.
Even the term conservative has been highjacked and lost it's meaning, conservation is and was a good thing, it's modern use by those who pretent to be conservative is a crime against the language, something the right wingers do
to confuse thier purposes, they hide behind the language and they hide in the temples.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Care to provide some examples of this?
Why are crusty old socialists forever trying to tell conservatives what they are and how to be? It's like some of these bull shit atheists telling Christians how they are supposed to be.... it's all junk.
darkbeaver said:
Care to provide some examples of this?
Why are crusty old socialists forever trying to tell conservatives what they are and how to be? It's like some of these bull shit atheists telling Christians how they are supposed to be.... it's all junk.
The original conservative,Edmond Burke was progressive, albeit an elitist, but so was (is) just about everyone else.
RE: Can a Christian be a
The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then. But the conservatives remind me of my grandmother. Any ideology that didn't fit into her narrow world view was wrong. Period. She used whatever was at hand to back up her opinions (when she bothered to back them up), including the bible ... but she seemed to forget that "cast the first stone" part.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.
But the conservatives remind me of my grandmother. Any ideology that didn't fit into her narrow world view was wrong. Period. She used whatever was at hand to back up her opinions (when she bothered to back them up), including the bible ... but she seemed to forget that "cast the first stone" part.Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
The fates led me to this topic.....
I have just been looking for good newslinks on FreeRepublic....because there are some good writers and journalists who contribute great insight and articles which give excellent information on events of the day....
There are other really gruesome threads which make me gag. I have just come down from one....and have beaten my gag reflex into submission..
The topic is the submission for the next state election in ??? (I forget the state and am too lazy to go back into that mess).....The candidate is: a transgendered, republican.
This has stirred up a hornet's nest. The candidate is an ex-navy man who is now a woman... and is running as such....for the republican party.
Why why why they screech???
They don't know what to do with this one...I mean they have all their arguments about homosexuals and SSM....and sin and evil and hell-bent..... Nice to see the religious zealots all out of appropriate words.... speechless!
Bigotry is alive and flourishing in the free world market.
Oooops - forgot link:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/14351461.htm
I have just been looking for good newslinks on FreeRepublic....because there are some good writers and journalists who contribute great insight and articles which give excellent information on events of the day....
There are other really gruesome threads which make me gag. I have just come down from one....and have beaten my gag reflex into submission..
The topic is the submission for the next state election in ??? (I forget the state and am too lazy to go back into that mess).....The candidate is: a transgendered, republican.
This has stirred up a hornet's nest. The candidate is an ex-navy man who is now a woman... and is running as such....for the republican party.
Why why why they screech???
They don't know what to do with this one...I mean they have all their arguments about homosexuals and SSM....and sin and evil and hell-bent..... Nice to see the religious zealots all out of appropriate words.... speechless!
Bigotry is alive and flourishing in the free world market.
Oooops - forgot link:
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/local/14351461.htm
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Cosmo said:The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Jay you're getting dangerously close to heresay here, you're about one step away from saying Jesus was human and not devine.
conservative=adj 1 preservative 2 disposed to protect existing views, conditions, or institutions 3 moderate, cautious--
from Merriam Webster the dictionary
Jay you're not conservative, you're a rebel, existing established views are secular not religious, you do not write to preserve those
views you are not moderate or cautious, therfore you are not conservative, you are something else. I am easily seen to be more conservative than you are, and conservative left at that.
Jay said:Cosmo said:The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Jay you're getting dangerously close to heresay here, you're about one step away from saying Jesus was human and not devine.
conservative=adj 1 preservative 2 disposed to protect existing views, conditions, or institutions 3 moderate, cautious--
from Merriam Webster the dictionary
Jay you're not conservative, you're a rebel, existing established views are secular not religious, you do not write to preserve those
views you are not moderate or cautious, therfore you are not conservative, you are something else. I am easily seen to be more conservative than you are, and conservative left at that.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
I think some might disagree with you, there Cosmo.
I've always figured that ideologues are usually intolerant of others' ideas, no matter what the political stripe.
Cosmo said:
I think some might disagree with you, there Cosmo.
I've always figured that ideologues are usually intolerant of others' ideas, no matter what the political stripe.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Damn, just when I thought we were all getting along. Jay, discuss the topic, don't attack the poster. You know better. Cosmo
darkbeaver said:Jay said:Cosmo said:The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Jay you're getting dangerously close to heresay here, you're about one step away from saying Jesus was human and not devine.
conservative=adj 1 preservative 2 disposed to protect existing views, conditions, or institutions 3 moderate, cautious--
from Merriam Webster the dictionary
Jay you're not conservative, you're a rebel, existing established views are secular not religious, you do not write to preserve those
views you are not moderate or cautious, therfore you are not conservative, you are something else. I am easily seen to be more conservative than you are, and conservative left at that.
Damn, just when I thought we were all getting along. Jay, discuss the topic, don't attack the poster. You know better. Cosmo
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Arguing with any human about a cherished belief causes intolerance. *shrug* Human nature. I was talking about a broader perspective than individual ego, Jay.
Conservative have "given up a large amount" .... say what? That statement implies you had it to give up. Conservatives don't have a corner on the market of truth, even though some may think they do.
Or perhaps I'm uniformed, Jay. What have the conservatives given up?? They've been dragged -- mostly kicking and screaming -- into the 21st Century where things like same sex rights are supported, but the old slave owners reacted pretty much the same way when slavery was abolished. A loud, strident voice doesn't denote truth or righteousness.
As for emulating Christ ... it's been my experience that the religious folk pick and choose their quotes to suit their prejudices. Just because some people would rather quote "an eye for an eye" than "turn the other cheek", it doesn't make them any more correct.
And that assumes that people believe the bible. I, personally, do not. Unless you can read the original languages the bible was written in and choose to spend a great deal of time studying the complete text, all you're doing is quoting someone else's interpretation -- and out of context at that. Not exactly a valuable source, imho.
Even if I did buy the bible wholesale, I'd still have to say that supporting diverse viewpoints and a plethora of social programs is more "christian" than the exclusionary stand taken by many conservatives. *shrug*
And by the way ... It's nice to see this topic being discussed without the usual snapping and snarling that so often happens when religion is brought up. Yay for us all!!
Jay said:
Arguing with any human about a cherished belief causes intolerance. *shrug* Human nature. I was talking about a broader perspective than individual ego, Jay.
Conservative have "given up a large amount" .... say what? That statement implies you had it to give up. Conservatives don't have a corner on the market of truth, even though some may think they do.
Or perhaps I'm uniformed, Jay. What have the conservatives given up?? They've been dragged -- mostly kicking and screaming -- into the 21st Century where things like same sex rights are supported, but the old slave owners reacted pretty much the same way when slavery was abolished. A loud, strident voice doesn't denote truth or righteousness.
As for emulating Christ ... it's been my experience that the religious folk pick and choose their quotes to suit their prejudices. Just because some people would rather quote "an eye for an eye" than "turn the other cheek", it doesn't make them any more correct.
And that assumes that people believe the bible. I, personally, do not. Unless you can read the original languages the bible was written in and choose to spend a great deal of time studying the complete text, all you're doing is quoting someone else's interpretation -- and out of context at that. Not exactly a valuable source, imho.
Even if I did buy the bible wholesale, I'd still have to say that supporting diverse viewpoints and a plethora of social programs is more "christian" than the exclusionary stand taken by many conservatives. *shrug*
And by the way ... It's nice to see this topic being discussed without the usual snapping and snarling that so often happens when religion is brought up. Yay for us all!!
Conservatives have given up a great deal in monetary terms to left ideals....incredible amounts of money. I consider anything over 25% of my income way, way to much to give up so people can buy votes with it. Another good example of conservatives giving up would be the fact you can't buy basic health insurance in Canada it's illegal to do so....
I want protestant Christianity to be taught in public schools as it was when I went to school, but because certain people have deemed this to be taboo, I can't, and if I wish to send my kids to religious schools I have to pay for it myself, without a tax break against my exorbitant property taxes....we are getting screwed big time for the sake of the new religion which is leftism IMO.
Gun control and the ability to defend ones self....I don't need to explain that one to you because we agree on the subject, but clearly the right has given this right up too....
Free speech.
I'll give you the same sex rights issue, why not....I mean I know how Tommy Douglas thought about the issue and he said it was a mental disorder and he was a socialist NDPer....give me a break. I don't support what Tommy the NDP guy said...I think it is foolish. I support all the same rights for homos as I do hetros, with the minor difference being the term marriage, as there is just to load a voice that says these two unions should be deemed different. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I just don't think "social programs" are part of the "Christian way". People like to throw around these words "social programming" as if it some de facto thing that was handed down from on high and need to be held in some reverence when further from the truth it couldn't be.
An eye for an eye is Old Testament thinking...turn the other cheek is Christian. I do think there are some problems with some fundamentalist beliefs in Christianity, but they can't hold a candle to the competition.
I want protestant Christianity to be taught in public schools as it was when I went to school, but because certain people have deemed this to be taboo, I can't, and if I wish to send my kids to religious schools I have to pay for it myself, without a tax break against my exorbitant property taxes....we are getting screwed big time for the sake of the new religion which is leftism IMO.
Gun control and the ability to defend ones self....I don't need to explain that one to you because we agree on the subject, but clearly the right has given this right up too....
Free speech.
I'll give you the same sex rights issue, why not....I mean I know how Tommy Douglas thought about the issue and he said it was a mental disorder and he was a socialist NDPer....give me a break. I don't support what Tommy the NDP guy said...I think it is foolish. I support all the same rights for homos as I do hetros, with the minor difference being the term marriage, as there is just to load a voice that says these two unions should be deemed different. I don't think that is too much to ask.
I just don't think "social programs" are part of the "Christian way". People like to throw around these words "social programming" as if it some de facto thing that was handed down from on high and need to be held in some reverence when further from the truth it couldn't be.
An eye for an eye is Old Testament thinking...turn the other cheek is Christian. I do think there are some problems with some fundamentalist beliefs in Christianity, but they can't hold a candle to the competition.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
I didn't attack the poster.
Jay said:darkbeaver said:Jay said:Cosmo said:The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Jay you're getting dangerously close to heresay here, you're about one step away from saying Jesus was human and not devine.
conservative=adj 1 preservative 2 disposed to protect existing views, conditions, or institutions 3 moderate, cautious--
from Merriam Webster the dictionary
Jay you're not conservative, you're a rebel, existing established views are secular not religious, you do not write to preserve those
views you are not moderate or cautious, therfore you are not conservative, you are something else. I am easily seen to be more conservative than you are, and conservative left at that.
Damn, just when I thought we were all getting along. Jay, discuss the topic, don't attack the poster. You know better. Cosmo
I didn't attack the poster.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.
This is a nasty, to say nothing of ridiculous post.
The vast majority of Canadians believe in God.
The very roots of modern democracy, as laid out by John Locke, are firmly planted in Christian ideals.
If you are stupid enough to believe life, the universe, and everything is just a big Cosmic Accident, well.....God help you.
quinton said:
This is a nasty, to say nothing of ridiculous post.
The vast majority of Canadians believe in God.
The very roots of modern democracy, as laid out by John Locke, are firmly planted in Christian ideals.
If you are stupid enough to believe life, the universe, and everything is just a big Cosmic Accident, well.....God help you.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Actually, you did. I have it copied to our "deleted trash talk" file. Address your comments to the issue, not the person making them, Jay. If you need further information on how to do that, I'd be more than happy to provide it for you. A little lesson in communication. But somehow I think you're savvy enough to know how to behave.
Add to that, if you have an issue with staff, take it to PM. You don't want to take on staff in open forum. If it were any other mod, I'd have banned you for it. We have one hard and fast rule around here: Any issues you have with staff are to be dealt with in private. Arguing with staff in open forum will get you banned. You've been around long enough to know that.
Jay said:
Actually, you did. I have it copied to our "deleted trash talk" file. Address your comments to the issue, not the person making them, Jay. If you need further information on how to do that, I'd be more than happy to provide it for you. A little lesson in communication. But somehow I think you're savvy enough to know how to behave.
Add to that, if you have an issue with staff, take it to PM. You don't want to take on staff in open forum. If it were any other mod, I'd have banned you for it. We have one hard and fast rule around here: Any issues you have with staff are to be dealt with in private. Arguing with staff in open forum will get you banned. You've been around long enough to know that.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Now, I was brought up in a strict Baptist family. Most would call that hard-core fundamentalism. My parents were the most decent people I have ever met. They were socially concerned (although Conservative), privately generous, and tended towards freedom and tolerance in their political views.
That said, I have a distrust of hard-core right wing preachers......I prefer a Tommy Douglas to a Pat Robertson, thank you very much. (Douglas was a Baptist preacher....a fundamentalist)
I also think that, although terribly over-stated, there is some truth to the lead article on this thread. The problem is I would trust the guy that wrote it even less than those he complains about.
Acudor said:
Now, I was brought up in a strict Baptist family. Most would call that hard-core fundamentalism. My parents were the most decent people I have ever met. They were socially concerned (although Conservative), privately generous, and tended towards freedom and tolerance in their political views.
That said, I have a distrust of hard-core right wing preachers......I prefer a Tommy Douglas to a Pat Robertson, thank you very much. (Douglas was a Baptist preacher....a fundamentalist)
I also think that, although terribly over-stated, there is some truth to the lead article on this thread. The problem is I would trust the guy that wrote it even less than those he complains about.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.
How tolerant, then you all wonder what people with faith are fighting about.
aeon said:
How tolerant, then you all wonder what people with faith are fighting about.
Jay said:
Ok, Jay, I'm with you on these two points. Unfortunately I doubt any political party is going to remedy either situation. I think it's become a minefield that no one is going to touch because it will cost them votes.
And I want Wiccan taught in schools so kids learn to relate to the Earth as Goddess. *shrug* Since we can't agree on any of it, I figure religion should be taken entirely out of schools and put in the hands of parents, where it belongs. I don't want some other adult teaching my kid spiritual beliefs. Even the ones I follow. As for tax breaks for religious schools ... if that ever happens, then there should be tax breaks for all religions and aethist schools as well. Even across the board. As it is, I don't even think churches should be tax exempt. It's big business.
How so? I missed this one entirely, apparently.
In the dark ages homosexuality was classified as mental illness in the DSM IV. Of course people once thought the earth was flat, too. Things change as knowledge is gained.
Actually, Jay, the right doesn't "give us the same sex rights issue" ... we've had to take it. With force, in a court of law. The right gave us nothing. We fought for it. And the right has not been a particularly gracious loser in this case.
Nope, neither do I, actually. Just seems that the old connotation of being christian meant being giving, generous and loving to others. I threw that in because it's an old meaning of the word.
Old testament isn't christian? Geez, ya learn something new every day.