Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.

zoofer

Council Member
Dec 31, 2005
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Testing our faith
By Tony Snow
Apr 14, 2006

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The Standard of London, in a fit of perversity, has asked key public figures in England whether they believe Jesus literally rose from the dead. This produced answers that ranged from lyrical to disgusting to hilarious.
A couple of well-known prelates dodged the question, for instance, and the press office at 10 Downing St. informed the paper that Prime Minister Tony Blair, a serial avower of his faith, would not answer such questions.
Such is the challenge of faith in a roiled world. Easter is the most extraordinary of religious holidays because it dares believers to step up and embrace the impossible: the declaration that Jesus of Nazareth died, was buried and rose on the third day in accordance with the scriptures.
This proclamation admits of no middle ground. You can't argue, as have some theologians and Gnostics, that Jesus died "metaphorically" or that his death merely served to liberate his spirit from the coarse confines of the material world.
Jesus shut off those lines when he predicted his own death and resurrection -- a fact that prompted G.K. Chesterton to observe that the Christ was either a liar, a lunatic or the Lord. It may be possible to half-believe in some creeds, but not this one: Either you're in or out; either Easter changed history, or Jesus was just another dust-coated Levantine huckster.
Such a stark challenge has a delicious way of pinning Modernity to the wall. If there is a defining characteristic to the age, it is petulant hubris. We believe in miracle diets, but not miracles; politicians declare their faith in the perfectibility of government, but not the perfection of the Almighty.
We take pride in our refusal to believe in things we cannot see, touch or measure. We harrumph and complain when clerics tell us that free will does not confer upon us a measure of omnipotence.
Europe has fallen more deeply for this hooey than we have, but the contagion has begun to spread. We express our vanity through such things as the self-help movement, which in its endless lose-weight, have-sex, purge-guilt, be-happy manifestations promises that one doesn't need God. The Self can do it all. Find a diet. Buy new clothes. Exercise. And bingo! Happiness (along with a trim waistline and a heart-shredding sex life) is yours. Who needs resurrection when you've got the South Beach diet?
Over time, however, the self-improvement movement manages only to mangle the brittle psyches of the poor saps who keep Oprah and the how-to authors in business. The fads come and go, but the anomie persists. Not even firm-bellied swingers can fend off the yearning for something better and the quiet suspicion that somewhere beyond the Self lies something more liberating and refined -- the Truth.
This is where Easter enters the picture again. The story of Easter is one of renewal against all rules and odds. It describes the life of an unknown man who preached in a forlorn and forgotten corner of the globe, who lived humbly and died in humiliation, whose votaries fought with words and not swords, and who somehow became the source of the world's greatest and most influential religion. Death begat life, and life begat hope, and hope begat liberation.
Even unbelievers must concede the tale has an attractive ring to it. We all hate the idea of being constrained by someone else's idea of the possible, and we all want immortality. But there's something more at work: We all believe in the miraculous -- in events and achievements that not only beggar the imagination, but defy the boundaries of reason.
Love is the obvious example. You can't measure it. You can't see it. You can't manufacture it. And you can't live without it. Or how about prayer? Doctors swear by it. And even those who have tried to debunk it through scholarship have found themselves apologizing that even seemingly damning results seem downright unsatisfying.
The key to Easter is this: It is too preposterous, too outrageous, too incredible not to be true, and not to be the key to a much larger truth.
While Christians celebrate, recipients of the Standard poll wriggle and complain. Most of us hate being forced to think about things that really matter -- such as whether God or Christ exist. We would much rather cavil over Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, or the advisability of permitting illegal aliens to petition for citizenship ... anything but the ultimate question.
But the season won't let us. And that, in itself, is akin to a miracle.

Tony Snow is the host of The Tony Snow Show on Fox News Radio.
http://www.townhall.com/opinion/columns/tonysnow/2006/04/14/193706.html
It is not too late to get on your knees heathens.
 

the caracal kid

the clan of the claw
Nov 28, 2005
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zoofer,

your tony snow could do with studying the real history of christianity and not just espousing claims of the religion itself.

Easter was a celebration stolen from pagans to aid in the conversion. The bible was written and assembled many years AFTER the time this jesus supposedly lived. It is easy to write prophecy after the fact (especially if it is not pure fact based history). Even if the bible were taken as literal truth, which literal truth of the rising do you accept? there are two versions in the bible which contradict each other.

Christian apologists are a dangerous breed. The religion is dying and some can't accept that. Christianity had its run, and during its run it hampered the progress of humanity quite well. We might have been in space 1000 years ago if not for christianity. So as to your "get on your knees" comment: no thank you. I have no use for a warring, repressive, regressive, fear-based mythology.
 

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
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in the belly of the mouse
A more interesting question is: "Can a Capitalist be a Christian?" Looking at the Sermon on the Mount, the parable of the camel and the eye of the needle, and the quote about "serving two masters", makes it pretty clear that the short answer is a definite NO.

However, in BushWorld, Jesus would bomb before diplomacy and lie to do it. The Lamb of God would be OK with torture, spying on people and bearing false witness against anyone He didn't like. The Son of God would be OK with insider trading and cutting benefits to the poor in order to lower taxes on the rich. From that perspective, the Son of Man probably would wink at a little war profiteering , so maybe the question is moot...
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Can a Christian be a

The neocons questions are even crooked and contrived, you have corrected it perfectly IMO. Can a Capitalist be a Christian? I don't think so, but didn't Jesus also say "the lord helps those that help themselves" or is that not biblical, I can't remember much of the book, it was a tedious read.

The Gospel of Capital chapter 1 verse 1

pennies begat nickles, nickles begat dimes, dimes begat quarters,
quarters begat dollars, dollars begat fast cars women and booze whoopie
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Matthew 25:14-30

14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.

17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.

18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.

20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.

26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Can a Christian be a

He's not talking about money though, he's talking about doing the lords work and increasing the return on souls, by spreading the word they have multiplied the adherants, but the meek one has shirked his duty and produced nothing, makeing no progress for the lord.

Is this a close quess?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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I didn't see you had posted after Pasta did and I was responding to this quote...

pastafarian said:
A more interesting question is: "Can a Capitalist be a Christian?"
 

BitWhys

what green dots?
Apr 5, 2006
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RE: Can a Christian be a

I don't see anything about 5 and 2 taking profits by their own accord. Is that, like, 20B of the Gospel of Judas or something?
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Can a Christian be a

24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Does this mean it's o/k to just take the money and run without any input. This is perfect capitalism, something for nothing.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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I brought this quote in because I can't imagine Christ would use an example like this if he were "anti-capitalist". It appears he is describing the Kingdom of Heaven and I doubt he took this lightly.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Location, Location
The article is complete and utter crap. After several rambling rants, he comes out with:
"For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus' high view of scripture, it is impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism. "

So what he really means is that HIS definition of a Christian can't be HIS definition of a Liberal.

What an idiot.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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RE: Can a Christian be a

But Jay the gift of the word multiplied the good, it was a gift not a monetary investment but an investment of the word. I think he was serious and did not take it lightly but the philosophy behind the tract is as old as the hills, it is not
exclusively Christian.
 

pastafarian

Electoral Member
Oct 25, 2005
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See, that's the thing about the parables, Jay: they describe the Kingdom of God in ways that uneducated (but not unintelligent ), practical people can understand.

It is no coincidence that we use the word "talent" the way we do, to mean "gift from God". There is no cash in the real kingdom of Heaven (As Bono put it:"The God I believe in isn't short of cash, mister.").

When Jesus was talking about seed being sown, he wasn't trying to teach people about farming, and in the parable of the talents, he's not talking about making money. He's talking about the talents that God has given us and the reverence and sense of duty these gifts demand of us, even in the face of fear.

The parables of Jesus range from the obvious to the deep and subtle. There are many challenging ones, such as the parable of the progigal son and of the workers in the vinyard, which appear to violate our earthly rules of fairness, but are illustrations of how things work in the Kingdom of Heaven.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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what many conservatives call being a true "Christian&qu

http://mediamatters.org/items/200604190001




Wed, Apr 19, 2006 10:13am EST

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Savage advocated "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims; called alleged Duke rape victim a "drunken slut stripping whore"

Summary: On April 17, Michael Savage called for "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims and referred to the alleged Duke rape victim as a "drunken slut stripping whore."

On April 17, nationally syndicated radio host Michael Savage called for "kill[ing] 100 million" Muslims and referred to the woman who alleged she was raped by members of Duke University's lacrosse team as a "drunken slut stripping whore."

On his radio show, Savage told listeners that "intelligent people, wealthy people ... are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, 'Oh, there's a billion of them.' " Savage continued: "I said, 'So, kill 100 million of them, then there'd be 900 million of them.' I mean ... would you rather us die than them?" Savage added: "Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later."

Savage also referred to the alleged Duke rape victim as "a drunken slut stripping whore accusing men of raping her when there is absolutely no evidence of such a rape other than what comes out of that filthy mouth of hers." He later asked: "What kind of system do we have that anyone can scream rape and not have to show her face?" adding, "This is all the product of the out-of-control lesbian feminist movement." Echoing previous comments he has made about the alleged rape victim, Savage said, "The Durham dirt-bag case disgusts me to my core."

Savage has also previously referred to the alleged victim as a "dirty, verminous black stripper."

From the April 17 edition of Talk Radio Network's The Savage Nation:

SAVAGE: There are too many RDDBs [red-diaper doper babies, Savage's term for people supposedly raised by Marxist parents] in high places and in the media and in the courts for us to stand up to this fanatical enemy. And so unless the RDDB is reined in somehow or taken out of power, we're going to die as a nation. I swear to God that's what people are saying to me. And these are intelligent people, wealthy people. They are very depressed by the weakness that America is showing to these psychotics in the Muslim world. They say, "Oh, there's a billion of them." I said, "So, kill 100 million of them, then there'll be 900 million of them." I mean, would you rather die -- would you rather us die than them? I mean, what is it going to take for you people to wake up? Would you rather we disappear or we die? Or would you rather they disappear and they die? Because you're going to have to make that choice sooner rather than later.

[...]

SAVAGE: Now, we got the Durham dirt-bag case. The Durham dirt-bag case disgusts me to my core. Here, you have a drunken slut stripping whore accusing men of raping her when there is absolutely no evidence of such a rape other than what comes out of that filthy mouth of hers. And what really gets to me, here, is not only the piling on by the vermin in the media -- the spineless eunuchs in the media who are taking the side of an unknown accuser without ever having to ask her one question. What kind of system do we have that anyone can scream rape and not have to show her face, not answer to the public. And, yet, those she accuses are suddenly guilty until they're proven innocent. This is all the product of the out-of-control lesbian feminist movement.


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Would Jesus have approved of any of this?????