Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.
- Thread starter zoofer
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I like this one.
Ummm if Jesus was a Liberal it wouldn't be about giving, it would be about taking.
If Jesus was a Liberal it wouldn't be a suggestion either, you would have to invite all those people as some sort of affirmative action "feast" program.
Ummm if Jesus was a Liberal it wouldn't be about giving, it would be about taking.
If Jesus was a Liberal it wouldn't be a suggestion either, you would have to invite all those people as some sort of affirmative action "feast" program.
Still, I think he would have remained as far away from politics as possible. He was more orthodox the most orothdox Jews.
the biblical jesus a conservative?
not according to the mythology!
he wanted to reform the old ways.
he wanted to open up the judaic religion to all.
but then why debate so much over a fictional character?
there is a marked difference between the first generational christians that were true doomsdayers, and that which became christianity once Theodosius and Constanople began their works. The truth is that today's christians are more accurately "paulists" filtered through the councils that set biblical canon. "Jesusists" would be something entirely different than what bible followers are today. Such is the way with the corruption of man. Such is the way with a religion built for the purpose of dominance and control. True enough, while the jusus would be liberal, the religion canonized in his name is conservative.
not according to the mythology!
he wanted to reform the old ways.
he wanted to open up the judaic religion to all.
but then why debate so much over a fictional character?
there is a marked difference between the first generational christians that were true doomsdayers, and that which became christianity once Theodosius and Constanople began their works. The truth is that today's christians are more accurately "paulists" filtered through the councils that set biblical canon. "Jesusists" would be something entirely different than what bible followers are today. Such is the way with the corruption of man. Such is the way with a religion built for the purpose of dominance and control. True enough, while the jusus would be liberal, the religion canonized in his name is conservative.
Mark 7
1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
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Sounds conservative to me.
1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.
3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
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Sounds conservative to me.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a
Conservative? Now wait a minute. Jesus tought about a God who created ll that is. Now how do you explain going from nothing to creating all that is to be conservative. That's mighty radical if you ask me.
Just just apoint for other posters referring to religionists as morons. Please show some respect. do I call you a moron.
Jay said:Cosmo said:The real question is ... can a non-christian be a conservative?? Liberals are tolerant. We even let the rabid right wing have a say now and then.But the conservatives remind me of my grandmother. Any ideology that didn't fit into her narrow world view was wrong. Period. She used whatever was at hand to back up her opinions (when she bothered to back them up), including the bible ... but she seemed to forget that "cast the first stone" part.
Zoofer ... at the risk of opening Pandora's Box, it seems to me you can't be anything but liberal if you embrace the spirit of love, tolerance and acceptance that your guy Jesus espoused.
Clearly you haven't had an argument with a Liberal when your debating the merits of one of their cherished beliefs....they aren't tolerant in the least.
Conservatives have actually given up quite a large amount to the "tolerant left".
Christ rebuked people who would teach mans law as the law of God...clearly Christ was a conservative.
Conservative? Now wait a minute. Jesus tought about a God who created ll that is. Now how do you explain going from nothing to creating all that is to be conservative. That's mighty radical if you ask me.
Just just apoint for other posters referring to religionists as morons. Please show some respect. do I call you a moron.
the gospels were written well after the supposed life of jesus, jay. The bible was assembled 300 years after jesus supposedly lived. It is not a religion of jesus, but a religion of the later followers, who constructed it for control and dominance of a people.
In the grand picture of the abrahamics, this is why the message of the god was sent to mohammad. The message of the jesus was warped by men seeking power, so the god sent a message to another prophet to set the record straight.
Again, I will stress there is marked differences between the "early christians" and those that followed afterwards. From about 300 BCE onward christianity was a mish-mash of judao-pagan ideas indended for the dominance of a population. The winter solstice became christ mass, Estre became easter, etc. The "do not have false idols", was replaced with many paganesque idols.
In the grand picture of the abrahamics, this is why the message of the god was sent to mohammad. The message of the jesus was warped by men seeking power, so the god sent a message to another prophet to set the record straight.
Again, I will stress there is marked differences between the "early christians" and those that followed afterwards. From about 300 BCE onward christianity was a mish-mash of judao-pagan ideas indended for the dominance of a population. The winter solstice became christ mass, Estre became easter, etc. The "do not have false idols", was replaced with many paganesque idols.
I am separating out the early christians from the 3rd generational christians onward because there is a marked difference.
for the real purpose of this thread we need to discuss the modern christian, which is a descendent of the works of councils.
Even though the bible is constructed to maintain status quo, to preserve power to those with it, because that is what the writers desired, if we go to the roots of the religion we see that it was a liberal movement in many regards. Within the mythology the jesus character challenged the status quo and seeked to bring an equality most of the time (we will skip over his racism and sexism since everything needs to be looked at within the context of the culture it was written in and for).
I don't mind talking about how religions are a product of men. It is good to allow people to look at the whole picture and not badly influenced by the propaganda of the christians regarding their own religion.
for the real purpose of this thread we need to discuss the modern christian, which is a descendent of the works of councils.
Even though the bible is constructed to maintain status quo, to preserve power to those with it, because that is what the writers desired, if we go to the roots of the religion we see that it was a liberal movement in many regards. Within the mythology the jesus character challenged the status quo and seeked to bring an equality most of the time (we will skip over his racism and sexism since everything needs to be looked at within the context of the culture it was written in and for).
I don't mind talking about how religions are a product of men. It is good to allow people to look at the whole picture and not badly influenced by the propaganda of the christians regarding their own religion.
thats my point, jay.
christianity is not based on the the first generation of the faith, but on the later works of the gospels and the work of the councils that canonized the bible.
if the spirit of the first generation was carried forth, christians would be very liberal. It is the paulists that are less radical, or rebelious because they follow teachings that tell them to obey and submit. Lessons that suit the intent of the paulist religion to dominate and control.
christianity is not based on the the first generation of the faith, but on the later works of the gospels and the work of the councils that canonized the bible.
if the spirit of the first generation was carried forth, christians would be very liberal. It is the paulists that are less radical, or rebelious because they follow teachings that tell them to obey and submit. Lessons that suit the intent of the paulist religion to dominate and control.
Re: RE: Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no.
Cathars didn't, Albeginesians didn't, Copts didn,t Gnostics didn't and a great many others who were exterminated by Catholics who assembled the bible from extant texts selected and edited to remove any tracts which did not support the contrived divinity of jesus.You would enjoy reading about the inquisition. And it was Saul on the road to Damascus, he latinized his name when he got to Rome.
Jay said:
Cathars didn't, Albeginesians didn't, Copts didn,t Gnostics didn't and a great many others who were exterminated by Catholics who assembled the bible from extant texts selected and edited to remove any tracts which did not support the contrived divinity of jesus.You would enjoy reading about the inquisition. And it was Saul on the road to Damascus, he latinized his name when he got to Rome.
Since Jesus was a liberal, it is not that a Christain can't be a liberal. It's that some people, who are not liberals, call themselves Christains and even believe they are. Once they use the word "hate" against another human being, they prove themselves not to be Christain.