Exactly Spade. Now that the CIA is no longer providing the massive support to the Taliban that they did at one time, they get their lunch money from the Pakistani Secret Service.
Al Qaeda is Not a Real Group, Just a U.S. Propaganda Campaign
- Thread starter Stretch
- Start date
Exactly Spade. Now that the CIA is no longer providing the massive support to the Taliban that they did at one time, they get their lunch money from the Pakistani Secret Service.
How did they start what? Did they invade themselves? Did they blow up all their infrastructure?
I find this question of yours rather silly. They asked the Americans for proof that bin laden had something to do with 911 and they refused or could not produce it. The Americans then invaded Afghanistan and blew the country all to hell and still bib Laden is on the loose (if he is still alive) and our soldiers are there getting killed protecting the poppy fields.
There is no justification for having gone there or staying there.
The attack on Kuwait, the first attack on the W.T.C., the attack on a ship for starters.
Exactly. And Saddam had lots of time and urging to pull out of Kuwait. All he had to do was turn around and leave and he'd likely still be the dictator of Iraq today.
Also, just so our anti-US friends don't forget, the first gulf war was not a U.S. operation, or even a Nato operation, it was a true coalition, including many middle eastern countries who feared Saddam's ambitions at the time. The U.S. went in to support a U.S. protectorate (Kuwaiti ships flew American flags) and Saddam's Arab neighbor's were happy.
Bin Laden used it as an excuse to justify war on America. Like he has any business declaring war on anyone.
The Saudi's invited the U.S. to operate from Saudi soil. Osama didn't like it. Tough noogies.
Exactly. And Saddam had lots of time and urging to pull out of Kuwait. All he had to do was turn around and leave and he'd likely still be the dictator of Iraq today.
Also, just so our anti-US friends don't forget, the first gulf war was not a U.S. operation, or even a Nato operation, it was a true coalition, including many middle eastern countries who feared Saddam's ambitions at the time. The U.S. went in to support a U.S. protectorate (Kuwaiti ships flew American flags) and Saddam's Arab neighbor's were happy.
Bin Laden used it as an excuse to justify war on America. Like he has any business declaring war on anyone.
Now we are starting to get things straight.
We can go all the way back to 1938 when Britian started exploiting Saudi oil or the US installed the Shah in Iran, 1926 if you want to get to the real root of the issue.
The fact remains, we believe we have some sort of Manifest Destiny to be in the middle east, while the people of the middle east want nothing to do with us.
It's an economic issue for the western world (oil exploitation) ansd a cultural issue for Middle Easterners, Islam vs. Christianity
By far the most contentious issue is the creation of the state of Israel nearly 60 yrs ago (and the overwhelnming American support behind them) into a region thousnads of decades old.
We have been invading one way or another (economically, politically, culturally or militarily) there corner of the world for the past 80 yrs and they are starting to push back
Somehow, some people get all righteous and blubber "how dare they"... Don't they know who we think we are/...
Why is the neo-cons who condemn Saddam's invasion of Kuwait never ever mention two facts. One, Saddam went in to put a halt to the slant-drilling from there into Iraqi oil-fields (no doubt an American exercise) and that Saddam had already directly asked the US what their view was on his upcoming action. (the reply was anything but what ended up happening).
There were lots of outright lies fed to everybody by the US before the original war, the incubator story is a prime example.
Why do you neo-cons forget to mention those facts, has the sanitized version of history as the US would have everybody believe replaced cold-hard facts. Does that stop you from puking your guts out every morning because you know you support liars.
"The whole dispute started because Kuwait was slant-drilling. Using equipment bought from National Security Council chief Brent Scowcroft's old company, Kuwait was pumping out some $14-billion worth of oil from underneath Iraqi territory. Even the territory they were drilling from had originally been Iraq's. Slant-drilling is enough to get you shot in Texas, and it's certainly enough to start a war in the Mideast.
Even so, this dispute could have been negotiated. But it's hard to avoid a war when what you're actually doing is trying to provoke a war.
The most famous example of that is the meeting between Saddam and the US Ambassador to Iraq, April Glaspie, five days before Iraq invaded Kuwait. As CIA satellite photos showed an Iraqi invasion force massing on the Kuwaiti border, Glaspie told Hussein that "the US takes no position" on Iraq's dispute with Kuwait.
A few days later, during last-minute negotiations, Kuwait's foreign minister said: "We are not going to respond to [Iraq]....If they don't like it, let them occupy our territory....We are going to bring in the Americans." The US reportedly encouraged Kuwait's attitude."
Iraq from the book The CIAs Greatest Hits by Mark Zepezauer
"The fact remains, we believe we have some sort of Manifest Destiny to be in the middle east, while the people of the middle east want nothing to do with us."
And I'd go along with that, BUT, it was about 1994 when the first W.T.C. attack occurred and since then they have no credibility with me.
And I'd go along with that, BUT, it was about 1994 when the first W.T.C. attack occurred and since then they have no credibility with me.
MHz, whatever misunderstanding Saddam had towards America's position on invading Kuwait, it was certainly cleared up by six months of "this aggression will not stand".
Also, interesting the new found respect for what America thinks. Did you consider asking the Kuwaitis' where they stood on the invasion? Funny we don't see that reverence when it comes to Israel. I guess you have no problem with the current Israeli action against Gaza, since the U.S. tacitly approves of it.
Also, interesting the new found respect for what America thinks. Did you consider asking the Kuwaitis' where they stood on the invasion?
Funny we don't see that reverence when it comes to Israel. I guess you have no problem with the current Israeli action against Gaza, since the U.S. tacitly approves of it.
I already posted on that thread. Save your thoughts on that for that thread.MHz, whatever misunderstanding Saddam had towards America's position on invading Kuwait, it was certainly cleared up by six months of "this aggression will not stand".
Also, interesting the new found respect for what America thinks. Did you consider asking the Kuwaitis' where they stood on the invasion?
Post something that says they didn't say what I posted. Then post something on Kuwait's view on whether slant-drilling was an acceptable practise or not.
The Kuwait position was in my post.
"A few days later, during last-minute negotiations, Kuwait's foreign minister said: "We are not going to respond to [Iraq]....If they don't like it, let them occupy our territory....We are going to bring in the Americans." The US reportedly encouraged Kuwait's attitude."
The US has agreed with everything that Israel had done over the last 60 years, their own taxpayers have footed the entire expense. Kind of hard to condemn anything they do when they are using your hardware to do it.
Excuse me, but I thought we were talking about Al Qaeda. What has Saddam got to do with it? It was proved that he did not like bin Laden and the Yanks lied through their teeth about the whole thing. I was talking about Afghanistan so what has Kuwait have to do with anything?
And if you believe that a fictional group called Al Qaeda blew up the twin towers, could you explain how fictional characters could do that? I think the problem everybody is having is that most are incapable of seeing past the individual incidents, connect the dots and see the whole picture.
And if you believe that a fictional group called Al Qaeda blew up the twin towers, could you explain how fictional characters could do that? I think the problem everybody is having is that most are incapable of seeing past the individual incidents, connect the dots and see the whole picture.
Cliffy,
Propaganda has lingering effects. Even when people realize they've been lied to, they still succumb to its longterm brainwashing effects.
I disagree with you that al Qaeda doesn't exist. At a minimum it is concept like the boogey man. To keep the general public's attention focused on "The War on Terror" we need an organization to fear (al Qaeda) and a person to demonize (OBL).
I believe al Qaeda describes people who share a similar viewpoint regarding the world and how things work. al Qaeda is a convenient way to refer to all the people who share a viewpoint similar to OBL's. Sometimes some of these people cooperate with other, sometimes not. But I wouldn't describe al Qaeda as a hierarchical mafia like organization as depicted by our news. Its more like a movement.
Propaganda has lingering effects. Even when people realize they've been lied to, they still succumb to its longterm brainwashing effects.
I disagree with you that al Qaeda doesn't exist. At a minimum it is concept like the boogey man. To keep the general public's attention focused on "The War on Terror" we need an organization to fear (al Qaeda) and a person to demonize (OBL).
I believe al Qaeda describes people who share a similar viewpoint regarding the world and how things work. al Qaeda is a convenient way to refer to all the people who share a viewpoint similar to OBL's. Sometimes some of these people cooperate with other, sometimes not. But I wouldn't describe al Qaeda as a hierarchical mafia like organization as depicted by our news. Its more like a movement.
I agree with you except for the bogeyman part. That insinuates that Al Qaeda is indeed a creation being used to influence the public into supporting a war that ostensibly then, is NOT a war on terror.
Al Qaeda is allied with, if not in fact an integral part of by now, the Muslim Brotherhood, which is a global organization bent on the destruction of the west and any non-muslim society, ultimately Islamizing the world, whether by sword or otherwise. That is a very very real bogeyman.
