A very bad idea, the 2011 census long form will be voluntary

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
For me,as much as the idea of working with bad or incomplete information is stupid,is the way herr harper and his lackys are going about it.It's nothing new,they lie,bully and threaten,some of the things they say are plain silly.
Obviously,herr harper heard someplace that scared, ignorant people are easier to controll.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,636
13,670
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Low Earth Orbit
Can I voluntarily answer the census questions as though they were rhetorical?

Are pets and pests occupants in my home? I feed them, pay their bills. Why not?

Occupants: 3 adults 1 cats 2-300 ants 2 mosquitos and 1 house fly and the silverfish under the dryer scatter too quickly to count.
 

Nuggler

kind and gentle
Feb 27, 2006
11,596
141
63
Backwater, Ontario.
What confuses me is Harpo's puppet masters (big everything) rely on this free info gleaned from the census to get the correct (for them) spin on their advertising, and placing widgits in the market place where they have the best chance of being purchased.

So, if the info is incorrect, skewed, whatever, their aim at the demographics will be off and they will lose money.

If they have to do the research themselves they would just roll the price of surveys etc., into the end cost to the consumer.

Why then, are they allowing Harpo to end the long form and take away their free fun day at the zoo??

This may serve some ideological victory for Harpo, bit it's pissing a lot of people off. Pretty hard for him to flop on this'un.

UNO-hoo will wind up :sex:again. Aw well.............wave the fukkin flag and support the troops, eh. Be a patriotic Kanadjun.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,636
13,670
113
Low Earth Orbit
They need the census for just a little longer.

Once cash is eliminated the govt can buy corporate databases which know what type of toothpaste you buy and what your gas mileage is.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
547
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Vernon, B.C.
They need the census for just a little longer.

Once cash is eliminated the govt can buy corporate databases which know what type of toothpaste you buy and what your gas mileage is.

You have the right idea Petros, in fact I've already stated they DON'T need it now. :smile:
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
115,636
13,670
113
Low Earth Orbit
You have the right idea Petros, in fact I've already stated they DON'T need it now. :smile:
If they had to buy the data what would your life and lifestyle be worth to the govt and what is it worth to you as a the creator of that now valuable data?

Where's is my cut?
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
We can scrap the census all together and take the information from the Canadian Revenue Agency since it is more current information.

This Conservative government does not want to pay out money to groups that need it without statistical information they don’t have to.
 

relic

Council Member
Nov 29, 2009
1,408
3
38
Nova Scotia
Liberalman,for the eighteenth time,there is a lot more involved than just how much money who makes and how many dependants they have.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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You have the right idea Petros, in fact I've already stated they DON'T need it now. :smile:

Can you state that I won the lotto last night while you're at it? That would be swell.

We can scrap the census all together and take the information from the Canadian Revenue Agency since it is more current information.

If it's the population of Canada, then it's still a census. You'll still need to employ statisticians. And in the end, you'll still have less population data than you get from the current census.
 

MapleOne

Worlds greatest Dad'n
Jul 19, 2010
145
0
16
Kitchener, Ontario
www.MapleOne.com
Does the census bureau in Canada do a follow up personally (knock on your doors) if a form is not returned like they do in the U.S. ?

Yes they do, they followed up with me when I did not return it. They called me almost a dozen times when I tried to avoid them. I finally told them I was not going to fill it out and they told me I could go to jail. I said do your best but I'm still not going to fill it out. That was the last I ever heard of them.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should have information on the public, but some of the questions got far to personal for my tastes. How many people in your house, what is everyone's income and on and on and on. I just did not feel comfortable giving out all that information. Getting threatened with jail was the last straw for me, I was ready to to fight for my right to privacy.

A generic short form with basic questions would not have intimidated me, but this long form was idiotic.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Yes they do, they followed up with me when I did not return it. They called me almost a dozen times when I tried to avoid them. I finally told them I was not going to fill it out and they told me I could go to jail. I said do your best but I'm still not going to fill it out. That was the last I ever heard of them.

Don't get me wrong, I think they should have information on the public, but some of the questions got far to personal for my tastes. How many people in your house, what is everyone's income and on and on and on. I just did not feel comfortable giving out all that information. Getting threatened with jail was the last straw for me, I was ready to to fight for my right to privacy.

A generic short form with basic questions would not have intimidated me, but this long form was idiotic.

You're the reason Harper did away with the long form. Hope you vote for him, I've pretty much given up on him now.
 

MapleOne

Worlds greatest Dad'n
Jul 19, 2010
145
0
16
Kitchener, Ontario
www.MapleOne.com
Hey TenPenny, how are you tonight? Nice to chat with you..

I would have done the same regardless of who was in power. Have you ever filled out the long form? My god, it can be pretty damn intimidating. It felt like I was giving the government my first son. Way too many questions about me and my household there.

PS. Yes I did vote for the PC party, the alternatives looked pretty ominous to me.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
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Would you have been more or less likely to fill it out if it was just a fine that is threatened instead of jail time?

If you don't feel comfortable giving that information to Stats Canada, then what are you doing on Canadian content posting links which include your name, your address, your home phone number as well as your business address? There are zero cases of Stats Canada releasing personal info that can be linked to you. Yet you're here on a public forum giving it away, a forum that routinely gets spammed.

I think your process of ranking security of information may need adjusting. That's serious free advice.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
The "government" includes municipal, provincial, and federal levels of bureaucracy. The census information is not easily stitched together from multiple levels of government.

So are you saying that we have too many levels of government as opposed to levels of taxpayer?

How many people actually believe that your personal information is kept confidential? I don't have that kind of faith in government employees.
How do they know that anyone forced to fill out a survey is telling the truth? At least with a voluntary one most people that take the time to fill it out would not lie.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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So are you saying that we have too many levels of government as opposed to levels of taxpayer?

No, I was saying that for the purposes of one census, that serves users from the federal level all the way down to the municipal level, it's not an easy task to pull all of that information together, as JLM seems to think.

I think it's perfectly prudent to have levels of government who are charged with maintaining such things as a military, and sewer systems. Ottawa and Charlottetown, in my case have very different responsibilities, and I think that's wise. Don't you?

How many people actually believe that your personal information is kept confidential?
Well, I do, for one. But then I have used actual data compiled by Stats Canada, in one of my stats courses while I was in university. And I will also note for the record, there is not a single record of third party users of Stats Canada data having access to any kind of data which could identify the individual. Not one.

So the analogy here is, even though you haven't shot anyone with a gun ( I assume), we should just say that you can't own a gun, ever, so that you don't use it maliciously.

I don't have that kind of faith in government employees.
I don't have faith that elected governments will be able to adequately gauge the financial needs of the programs they already have the responsibility to administer without good data, data the census currently provides.

How do they know that anyone forced to fill out a survey is telling the truth? At least with a voluntary one most people that take the time to fill it out would not lie.
They have people who follow up with the respondents for a reason... Can you cite any statistical or econometric references that find the veracity of voluntary surveys to be superior to mandatory surveys?
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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No, I was saying that for the purposes of one census, that serves users from the federal level all the way down to the municipal level, it's not an easy task to pull all of that information together, as JLM seems to think.

Why would it be any more difficult than Googling something from virtually billions of pages of data?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Why would it be any more difficult than Googling something from virtually billions of pages of data?

Because it's not all available via google searches? So it would be more difficult than googling something?

What you fail to grasp is that privacy of data does exist, and it exists to prevent people from searching google to find out all the info someone needs to steal the identity of the poster JLM, as just one example of why data protection exists.

Also, the emphasis I added, billions of pages of data is not easily compiled into one report...
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
75,301
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Vernon, B.C.
Because it's not all available via google searches? So it would be more difficult than googling something?

What you fail to grasp is that privacy of data does exist, and it exists to prevent people from searching google to find out all the info someone needs to steal the identity of the poster JLM, as just one example of why data protection exists.

Also, the emphasis I added, billions of pages of data is not easily compiled into one report...

There is a big difference between statistical data and personal data.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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There is a big difference between statistical data and personal data.

Yes, and I'd like to keep it that way. A census should be done using statistics and statistically valid methodology.