A spanked child may be a better adult

SirJosephPorter

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Nov 7, 2008
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Just wondering S.J. are you saying that if something comes out of a Christian's mouth that automatically makes it suspect? or maybe wrong?

If something comes out of a Christian’s mouth telling us that something written in Bible has validity in today’s world (like ‘spare the rod, spoil the child’) then yes, it is suspect. Especially when the professor's career advancement prospects, promotion prospects, tenor etc. may depend upon what he/she rights, then yes, it is suspect.


Same as anything coming out of tobacco industry’s mouth telling us that tobacco is harmless would be suspect. Or anything coming from sugar industry telling us that how great sugar is for you, it would be suspect.
 

talloola

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Nov 14, 2006
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No spanking does not mean that there is no discipline, no structure, no mentoring, no monitoring. We never laid a hand on our son, but he had to live by the rules, by constraints. If he didn’t, there were consequences. Only that spanking, physical pain was not one of the consequences.

Indeed, that is the mistake many spanking advocates make, they assume alternatives are spanking or no discipline. Which is nonsense; one can have discipline, rules without subjecting the child to physical pain.

I had a long reply here, but deleted it, as we all went
through this many months ago, on the same subject, so I
will reply by saying that I 'fully agree with you.'
 

SirJosephPorter

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I think if you check back the crime rate may have taken a drastic drop just after the Charter of Rights took effect. If enough criminals got their "rights", then there wouldn't be near as many baddies among them.

If you read my post, the youth crime was 6% lower in 2006 than a decade earlier, in 1996. And that it is 25% lower than that in 1991. All these years were long after Charter was introduced, where does the Charter come in? You are grasping at straws, JLM.
 

Ron in Regina

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Apr 9, 2008
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OK....I just wanted to add my two cents here. I've read the Thread title, and
the opening post, and the link in the opening post....and it has absolutely
nothing to do with the Left-Right Political Spectrum thing...at all.

The Thread title is "A spanked child may be a better adult."

I too, am stuck with anecdotal evidence it seems. The statistics say one
thing, and what I see & experience around me tell a very different tale....

In the 70's, myself or my family didn't know anyone who was murdered, or
was a victim Gang Violence. Now I know a couple of people who've been
murdered, and many that have been victims of extremely violent Gang
violence.....but that could just be me and almost everybody I know in the
real world, I guess. Maybe what I'm seeing is a localized thing too?

From Anna's Link in Post #60 I believe:



Maybe some of the current Gangbangers in Regina needed a swat on the
Arse at times that they didn't get....and maybe it's the opposite. I don't know.
 

SirJosephPorter

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What worked for you may not always work. You may have been lucky. If there is no consequence, what aversion does the kid learn? Spanking is a last resort - spanking ... NOT beating or browbeating into sumbission. Can you provide a like to some absolute proof that a couple of slaps on the bottom ever created a monster?

Well, that's just it, what works for one parent or with one child, isn't guaranteed to have the same results with another. When any discipline is meted out, for it to work the administator has to have credibility.

Not when it involves corporal punishment, JLM. In my opinion, corporal punishment is always wrong.
 

Francis2004

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Nov 18, 2008
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Of course discipline, structure are the base to get kids into a good frame of mind.. The kind of discipline you use can create a better world for your kids or make it hell for them however.

Looking back at when I did something wrong and got a spanking as a child, it did not make me do it less, only make me fearful of my parents.. Thank God my parents did not use it often as a tool.

But what does spanking have to do with enforcing the above.. It can much better be accomplished by other means.. You need to know what your child wants, needs and trusts. Most of all your child must respect you.

Also it is much more the lack of good parenting that causes a child to break out then the child's own behaviour.. Children only learn from examples and the example you give by hitting them is that it's ok to beat people.

You must remember that for a 5 year old a spanking by an adult is like a flogging.. You might as well take out a baseball bat and knock them out.. To them it would be preferable to staying awake..
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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"I too, am stuck with anecdotal evidence it seems. The statistics say one
thing, and what I see & experience around me tell a very different tale."-


Absolutely, but I think you may as well fire it at a "brick wall". LOL...
 

DaSleeper

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May 27, 2007
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Statistical evidence doesn't show the crimes committed by youths just the charges and convictions...over the years the criteria for charging youths because of the young offenders act changed as shown in the link posted by someone else if you bother to read all the way to the bottom of the page;-)
This decline was accompanied by a corresponding rise in the rate of accused youth dealt with through other means. In 2006, the rate of accused youth not charged (or recommended for charging) was up 6% over the previous year and up 32% from 2002.

One of the primary objectives of the YCJA is to divert more youth involved in minor, non-violent crimes from the formal justice system.

Over the previous decade, the proportion of youth apprehended by police but not charged has generally been on the rise. Until 2002, this upward trend was gradual. However, in the period immediately following the introduction of the YCJA, the relative number of cases in which youth were handled through means other than charges climbed sharply.

Over the six-year period from 1997 to 2002, the proportion of young people accused of a Criminal Code offence, but not charged, ranged from 37% to 44%.

However, between 2002 and 2003, this proportion climbed to 55%. Since the YCJA came into force in 2003, the proportion of accused youth cleared otherwise has remained relatively stable, with measures other than formal charges used in almost 60% of youth crimes in 2006.

Since the introduction of the YCJA, the proportion of accused youth cleared by means other than a charge increased for virtually all offences. Nevertheless, police charges continued to be the norm for offences associated with the most severe penalties, while offences carrying less serious penalties remained among those least likely to result in charges.
 

AnnaG

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Jul 5, 2009
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OK....I just wanted to add my two cents here. I've read the Thread title, .
That gives me an idea.
"A spanked child may be a better adult".
Does that mean that I yank my kids back home and spank them, they'll be more "absolutely awesome" than they are now? Neat!
 

TenPenny

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Jun 9, 2004
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Indeed, that is the mistake many spanking advocates make, they assume alternatives are spanking or no discipline. Which is nonsense; one can have discipline, rules without subjecting the child to physical pain.
Quite so; some spanking opponents seem to think that 'spanking' = 'beating the crap out of your kids'.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Quite so; some spanking opponents seem to think that 'spanking' = 'beating the crap out of your kids'.

And just what is the difference between spanking and ‘beating the crap out of your kids’? The difference is one of quantity, not of quality. The difference is one of degree, not of kind.

That is why spanking can get out of hand and turn into child abuse. Basically the two are same thing, it all depends to what stage it is carried out. Initial stages it is spanking, carry it too far and it becomes child abuse.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Statistical evidence doesn't show the crimes committed by youths just the charges and convictions...over the years the criteria for charging youths because of the young offenders act changed as shown in the link posted by someone else if you bother to read all the way to the bottom of the page;-)

And just how does that support the contention of some here that crime is on the increase?
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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That gives me an idea.
"A spanked child may be a better adult".
Does that mean that I yank my kids back home and spank them, they'll be more "absolutely awesome" than they are now? Neat!
I'm sure El Barto will be a better person if you spanked him. I see him lurking in the background waiting.
 

SirJosephPorter

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Statistical evidence doesn't show the crimes committed by youths just the charges and convictions...

Funny you should mention that. I remember in 1998 (or thereabouts) Britain brought in strict gun control, they banned handguns.

The far right, the gun lobby in USA pounced on it, claiming that as a result of banning handguns and the strict gun control enacted, there was a huge increase in crime in UK.

The far right still uses the same argument in explaining how gun control leads to an increase in crime. What they conveniently leave out is that in 1998 UK carried out a complete overall of its justice system. They changed the crime statistics from number of convictions to number of reported crimes. The huge increase in crime statistics was due to this change, not the result of handgun ban as the far right in USA still claims.

But we did not change the way crime is reported in Canada. Statistics may show just the charges and convictions. So that means that charges and convictions have been steadily dropping for the past couple of decades or more.

And this tells you that crime is on the rise? Amazing.
 

SirJosephPorter

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I too, am stuck with anecdotal evidence it seems. The statistics say one
thing, and what I see & experience around me tell a very different tale....

In the 70's, myself or my family didn't know anyone who was murdered, or
was a victim Gang Violence. Now I know a couple of people who've been
murdered, and many that have been victims of extremely violent Gang
violence.....but that could just be me and almost everybody I know in the
real world, I guess. Maybe what I'm seeing is a localized thing too?
.

Ron, I think many areas in Saskatchewan are high crime areas. Crime is in general lowest in Ontario and Québec, it is pretty high in many parts of the West. So it is quite possible that in your area, there may really be an increase in the crime rate.

Anyway, if my personal experience is in conflict with statistics, I tend to believe statistics. Thus we live in a very safe area, there is very little crime where we live. In the last few years, on more than one occasion I have forgotten my keys in the house door, only to find them in the morning, no harm done. I personally have never been mugged or harassed. Neither has been my wife. She has gone to hospital at 2.00 a.m., 3.00 a.m. at night, I have never felt worried about her. She also feels quite safe in driving so late at night.

Based upon that, would I be justified in assuming that there is no crime in Canada? Of course not. Personal experience only covers a small area, statistics covers the whole province or the whole nation.