2SLGBTQQIA+

[Ron in Regina]

Absolutely. When the child reaches the age of consent, then they can do what they bloody well want despite what the parents say. |I personally would prefer the age of 25 but since children are legal at 18, I'd go with that. But there needs to be common sense in this whole thing & that's not happening. Children are being mutilated way before they should be if at all.

So. . . if a parent wants their child surgically/hormonally altered, that's OK?

Is anybody advocating for children to be surgically/hormonally altered here? Seriously?

Much of the one side of this debate is that Gender isn’t dictated by an individual’s sexual plumbing at birth or whether they’re genetically of the female or male biological sex…yet the push towards surgical and hormonal altering a child’s natural development is advocated somewhere here for that video to exist.

I’m questioning why this is being allowed to happen to children, and so is Dixie Cup above, and you see questioning this as giving consent that it should be happening by either of us? Am I misreading satirical responses? Am I missing the purple writing? I do miss that sorta thing sometimes.

Do I see neutering a child chemically or surgically as a good thing. That’s a hard Nope. Not the school behind a parents back or a parent before a child is mature enough to truly decide for themselves.

 

[petros]

So. . . the point is that the will of parents MUST be obeyed, except when you don't like it?

My point was the parents shouldn’t be excluded from knowing what’s happening in the schools regarding their own children, by policy. It still is.

Your reply is in response to my response to this video of this 11yr old (that’s Grade 6) boy already being prescribed hormone blockers with the doctor stating that she thinks 13yrs old would be the “perfect” time for that child to get onto Estrogen treatments, like this:

I’m asking a question, that yourself or nobody else tried to answer, so it still stands. “What Does happen if this child matures and makes a decision for himself that he’s a boy, but has lost out on two years of natural physical development before being put onto estrogen supplements?”

This isn’t an 18yr old, or a 16yr old, but an 11yr old that’s already years (I’m guessing) very far down a rabbit-hole.

At 11yrs old I’d rush home after school to catch part of an old rerun of “Adam West’s” Batman while getting geared up to do my flyer route, so I could get home for supper & homework, so I’d have time for fun and friends before bed. That was the life on an average day for me as an 11yr old boy so seeing what’s happened to the boy in the video so far is hard to relate to. It’s not like I grew up in Mayberry either.

It’s Not exactly letting a child be a child, and knowing that boy is going to have a lifelong tough row to hoe regardless of what decision he makes for himself once he’s old enough to (which I don’t think is what we’re seeing with an 11 year old). It’s just sad, as it seems like that boys childhood has been stolen from him.

Why is this child’s sexuality being pushed to the forefront at that age, instead of just allowing him to just naturally develop until he’s old enough and mature enough to make those decisions for himself? What’s happening in the video just seems very wrong to me. Seeing someone that young pushed that far already puts a face on a debate.

There are tonnes of "detranstioners" telling their stories and how they deal it.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Is anybody advocating for children to be surgically/hormonally altered here? Seriously?

Much of the one side of this debate is that Gender isn’t dictated by an individual’s sexual plumbing at birth or whether they’re genetically of the female or male biological sex…yet the push towards surgical and hormonal altering a child’s natural development is advocated somewhere here for that video to exist.

I’m questioning why this is being allowed to happen to children, and so is Dixie Cup above, and you see questioning this as giving consent that it should be happening by either of us? Am I misreading satirical responses? Am I missing the purple writing? I do miss that sorta thing sometimes.

Do I see neutering a child chemically or surgically as a good thing. That’s a hard Nope. Not the school behind a parents back or a parent before a child is mature enough to truly decide for themselves.

You appear to advocate "parental control" over everything: the books schools teach (or even offer), the curricula, the attitudes toward non-cis-hetero people.

So, what if "parental control" includes a kid who wants something non-cis-hetero, and whose parents concur?

 

[petros]

You appear to advocate "parental control" over everything: the books schools teach (or even offer), the curricula, the attitudes toward non-cis-hetero people.

So, what if "parental control" includes a kid who wants something non-cis-hetero, and whose parents concur?

Thats the decision of those parents. Not you, not me, not dykes, fags, companies trying to up their ESG or the man on the fucking moon.

 

[Taxslave2]

But being a gender isn’t about reproductive plumbing or dangling bits so there’s nothing to pay for, right? Sexual organs are biological sex traits, and gender is about how someone feels or something so there shouldn’t be anything that has to be paid for, unless I’m behind again.

There’s two biological sexes, some rare biological genetic misfires that produce interesting but statistically insignificant variations in humans, some other weirdness in Seahorses and such that’s not relevant to the conversation, and then gender is something different in the ‘feeling’ department that can switch around that’s separate than the two biological sexes, I think, at this point.

Maybe, depending on who’s using what definition at any given time. Consistency isn’t a basis to this debate it seems.

When I went to school, gender and sex were synonymous.So far as I can tell, that has only changed in the minds of those that never took biology.

 

[Taxslave2]

You appear to advocate "parental control" over everything: the books schools teach (or even offer), the curricula, the attitudes toward non-cis-hetero people.

So, what if "parental control" includes a kid who wants something non-cis-hetero, and whose parents concur?

Same as pedo parents. There are times when the government does have to step in to protect children.

 

[Hoof Hearted]

badgering the witness!

Badgering is what he does.

You're soaking in it, Badge.

 

[petros]

When I went to school, gender and sex were synonymous.So far as I can tell, that has only changed in the minds of those that never took biology.

Speaking of biology how many kids are fucked up by parents doing drugs?

 

[Taxslave2]

Too many. Alcohol as well.

 

[Ron in Regina]

You appear to advocate "parental control" over everything: the books schools teach (or even offer), the curricula, the attitudes toward non-cis-hetero people.

I am for parents not being excluded from knowing what’s happening with their children in the schools, by policy. It’s been consistent from the beginning, & I even explained why I had that position due to my own personal first hand experience with our Son being bullied back in elementary school and the school deciding what I did or didn’t need to know until our Son fought back….& then their concern wasn’t for our Son but for themselves. That’s been my stance, and the justification for it from the get-go.

So, what if "parental control" includes a kid who wants something non-cis-hetero, and whose parents concur?

So what if a kid wants something like to self identify as a pirate (?) and the parents concur? Would you ask if I’m in favour of them chopping off the kids leg below the knee and surgically installing a peg and a parrot?

I wouldn’t be in favour of the Trans-Pirate surgical or hormonal modifications to a child not mature enough to understand the life long impact of the decision while not fully mentally developed in case you’re curious…..& how that fits into your perception of my somehow advocating for parental control over everything…I’d be curious to hear how that reconciles.

 

[petros]

Too many. Alcohol as well.

Extacsy and SSRI antidepressants are nearly one in the same when it comes to receptors in the endo system. That shit was and still is rampant. Gen X partied gard.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I am for parents not being excluded from knowing what’s happening with their children in the schools, by policy. It’s been consistent from the beginning, & I even explained why I had that position due to my own personal first hand experience with our Son being bullied back in elementary school and the school deciding what I did or didn’t need to know until our Son fought back….& then their concern wasn’t for our Son but for themselves. That’s been my stance, and the justification for it from the get-go.

So what if a kid wants something like to self identify as a pirate (?) and the parents concur? Would you ask if I’m in favour of them chopping off the kids leg below the knee and surgically installing a peg and a parrot?

I wouldn’t be in favour of the Trans-Pirate surgical or hormonal modifications to a child not mature enough to understand the life long impact of the decision while not fully mentally developed in case you’re curious…..& how that fits into your perception of my somehow advocating for parental control over everything…I’d be curious to hear how that reconciles.

I don't know. That's why I asked. So far, the principle articulated seems to be that the state (the schools) can't present any ideas of which parents, or a minority thereof, disapprove. So I'm testing the limits of "parental authority." Should a parent be able to demand gender-related surgery or hormonal therapy? That was the question. Babbling about pirates seems to have been you answer.

And don't try to dodge by talking about "child abuse." I know it's illegal. The question is should it remain illegal, or should it fall under the banner of parental authority? What, if any, are the limits of parental authority, and who gets to decide?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Same as pedo parents. There are times when the government does have to step in to protect children.

Thank you. With regard to gender-assignment surgery or therapy, at what point should the government step in?

 

[Serryah]

When I went to school, gender and sex were synonymous.So far as I can tell, that has only changed in the minds of those that never took biology.

Sex–gender distinction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Biological Sex and Gender in the United States | Embryo Project Encyclopedia

In the United States, most people are assigned both a biological sex and gender at birth based on their chromosomes and reproductive organs. However, there is an important distinction between biological sex and gender. Biological sex, such as male or female, commonly refers to physical...

embryo.asu.edu

"According to The Oxford English Dictionary, the word gender had been used as early as the 1300s to describe categories of people. The Oxford English Dictionary’s earliest record of using the word to specifically refer to men or women, though, did not occur until 1474, when someone used it in a letter to describe what the writer refers to as the masculine gender. Over the next centuries, when gender was used to refer to men or women, it was often synonymous with biological sex. However, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, during the early twentieth century, the word sex became more associated with sexual intercourse. As discussions of sexual intercourse are largely taboo in the US, people began to use the word gender in its place to refer to a person’s status as a male or female by the end of the twentieth century, a practice that is still largely common as of 2022. However, in the 1950s, gender psychologists who studied differences between the sexes began to reframe gender as something entirely separate from biological sex."

Some edification on WHY sex and gender often get confused.

Guess the statement should be instead "So far as I can tell, that has only changed in the minds of those that never took medical history."

 

[Ron in Regina]

I don't know. That's why I asked.

Ah, ok. Thank you for the clarification.

So far, the principle articulated seems to be that the state (the schools) can't present any ideas of which parents, or a minority thereof, disapprove. So I'm testing the limits of "parental authority."

I see. I just was against the school excluding parents from knowledge of happenings in the school involving their child, with a sanctioned policy stating they could keep the parent in the dark.

Should a parent be able to demand gender-related surgery or hormonal therapy? That was the question. Babbling about pirates seems to have been you answer.

I see. I thought it was an apt comparison.

Life saving surgeries like a removing an appendix then yes with or without parental consent, or having drainage tubes installed in their ears, etc…that isn’t life threatening but will improve their child’s health with parental consent.

Gender Reassignment surgery or consenting to a pre-16 or 18 or 19 year old (depending on the age of majority for each jurisdiction) getting a boob-inflation surgery or a tattoo, or removing a leg to install a peg and a parrot…big no until the child is an adult and can legally make that permanent decision for themselves.

And don't try to dodge by talking about "child abuse." I know it's illegal. The question is should it remain illegal, or should it fall under the banner of parental authority?

I’m not now, nor have I, in this thread, gone the direction of finger pointing towards child abuse. The video I did find disturbing as the child was still a child and not an adult deciding for themselves what direction he wanted to go.

What, if any, are the limits of parental authority, and who gets to decide?

That’s a hugely tough question, & one I don’t know the answer to.

I do know what I would and wouldn’t tolerate by the school in its decisions as to what I did and didn’t need to know to safeguard the school at the expense of my child…but that was personal & first person, and not abstract for a general rule of thumb.

 

[Dixie Cup]

There are tonnes of "detranstioners" telling their stories and how they deal it.

Of course there are and there'll be many many more. At that age, they don't understand what is going on. How can they make the decision for themselves at such a young age. Oh I know, it's because they're not making the decision; adults are doing that for them!!

 

[Dixie Cup]

So. . . if a parent wants their child surgically/hormonally altered, that's OK?

Absolutely not!! Did you read my response? I will NEVER condone this atrocity!

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Sex–gender distinction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Biological Sex and Gender in the United States | Embryo Project Encyclopedia

In the United States, most people are assigned both a biological sex and gender at birth based on their chromosomes and reproductive organs. However, there is an important distinction between biological sex and gender. Biological sex, such as male or female, commonly refers to physical...

embryo.asu.edu

"According to The Oxford English Dictionary, the word gender had been used as early as the 1300s to describe categories of people. The Oxford English Dictionary’s earliest record of using the word to specifically refer to men or women, though, did not occur until 1474, when someone used it in a letter to describe what the writer refers to as the masculine gender. Over the next centuries, when gender was used to refer to men or women, it was often synonymous with biological sex. However, according to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, during the early twentieth century, the word sex became more associated with sexual intercourse. As discussions of sexual intercourse are largely taboo in the US, people began to use the word gender in its place to refer to a person’s status as a male or female by the end of the twentieth century, a practice that is still largely common as of 2022. However, in the 1950s, gender psychologists who studied differences between the sexes began to reframe gender as something entirely separate from biological sex."

Some edification on WHY sex and gender often get confused.

Guess the statement should be instead "So far as I can tell, that has only changed in the minds of those that never took medical history."

Nice, but the True Believers will declare all this 500-year-old stuff irrelevant to the modern world, then immediately turn to citing 700-year-old precedent as a reason for banning abortion.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Absolutely not!! Did you read my response? I will NEVER condone this atrocity!

Thank you! And congratulations. You, who apparently have no balls in the literal sense, have more balls than the vast majority of our posters and other commenters.

Next question. . . would you use the power of the state to criminalize this "atrocity?"

Another question (I understand it's rare). . . would you allow surgery/hormone therapy, with or without parental consent, to make the body of a genuinely gynandromorphic child (distinct, physical signs of both sexes) conform to one sex? For example, breast reduction surgery to minimize the breasts of a 15-year-old with full male genitalia, or surgical and hormonal treatment to remove one set of genitalia from a child who has both?

 

[petros]

Thank you! And congratulations. You, who apparently have no balls in the literal sense, have more balls than the vast majority of our posters and other commenters.

Next question. . . would you use the power of the state to criminalize this "atrocity?"

Another question (I understand it's rare). . . would you allow surgery/hormone therapy, with or without parental consent, to make the body of a genuinely gynandromorphic child (distinct, physical signs of both sexes) conform to one sex? For example, breast reduction surgery to minimize the breasts of a 15-year-old with full male genitalia, or surgical and hormonal treatment to remove one set of genitalia from a child who has both?

No humans are gynandromorphic.Insects and birds yes, mammals no.

Pizza pizza.