Y'know, I've never heard a LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ person throw a conniption fit over how schools were "grooming" kids to be cishetero by exposing them to, say, Shakespeare.
2SLGBTQQIA+
- Thread starter B00Mer
- Start date
Good to know. I’ve told my story previously probably in this thread or others….& they all run together so I don’t remember which one & where.
My Son was being Bullied, this was 25yrs ago (& two years into this bullying, of both he and his cousin…my nephew…& many many other children). It was bad, & kids have their own institutionalized code of “Don’t be a rat & snitches get stitches, etc…” just like inmates do.
In this case the school knew full well what was going on, for years, & the intimidation techniques involved by this child that was two years older than my Nephew & three years older than my Son, years older and inches taller and pounds heavier than all the victims.
The School did what was in the best interests of the School, not the students, to make the least waves from the outside.
Fuck up like beating them up? Beat my Nephew with a boot in the boot room, etc…& the rest got punished with beat downs and shake downs? Like that kind of lucky?
One day my Son had had enough of being bullied….for years. And mid bully session he took down his bully and whaled on him, and had to be pulled off by a teacher and “Playground Supervisor”….& it was after that…that the school finally contacted me, to say that this had transpired and perhaps my Son needed Anger Management Counselling?
Two Freak’n YEARS of this before he took down and took out his bully that was three years older than him in Elementary School. The Teachers & other School Staff knew, & decided what was in THEIR bests interests as to what the parents like me should know. That was some kind of lucky.
I asked for a meeting with the school principal & this other child’s parents. What I got was a “supervised” meeting with the Principal & one police officer who wouldn’t talk, or sit, and made a point, indoors, to stand behind me the whole time, arms crossed, wearing those loser blacked out wrap-around sunglasses that some tiny penised fucktards thought where cool about 25 years ago. The ones that looked like the black letter “U”….remember them?
I was told that the parents of the bully didn’t think there was an issue and chose not to attend, and the police officer was for the school & principal’s benefit. That kind of lucky? Does my questioning the logic of keeping parents in the dark make more sense now?
I found this bully’s name and address, and had an off the record chat with this child’s father at their home and we came to an understanding. A real heart to heart. That’s the day the bullying stopped. The child needed to see that the father was now in the position to receive back everything that child would dish out to other children.
Within the year my Son grew into the largest Human in that School, including the staff, and the bully didn’t graduate until the end of that year and would’ve gone into Grade 9 as being in the youngest grade in his new school.
Forgive me for doubting a school’s intentions that they have a student or a parents best interests at heart, let alone having a policy to hide behind to justify keeping a parent in the dark. That’s where I’m coming from questioning the school system having an institutionalized policy to keep parents in the dark about their children.
First off, I'm sorry your Son went through that. And it should never have gotten TO that point.
I know what it's like to be bullied too. I also know what it's like to NOT want your parents to know.
I'm not questioning your logic of keeping parents in the know. That ISN'T the issue, because there are parents like you out there who do give a shit, and do want to know what's going on with their kids, so they CAN help their kids with the situation.
That's not the point.
The point is to protect kids from PARENTS who - sure, on any other day might be pretty cool parents - but the second they find out that their kid is GLBTQIA+, they flip their shit and that kid now is at risk.
So what would YOU suggest, Ron? Teachers ignore the wishes of these kids, they tell the parents "Oh by the way, Jane is Jim now" and when that kid goes home and gets the shit kicked out of them? When they go home and get verbally abused? Kicked out of the house? Pushed to believe suicide is the best solution to the issue?
Is THAT the answer? Screw the GLBTQIA+ kids cause who gives a fuck about them? They're wrong anyway? Because THAT is what this all comes across as to those kids at risk. That their feelings, their concerns, their fears, do NOT matter in this at all, because "parents know best", even when they don't.
It’s shitty, but that passed with a bit of “parental intervention” outside of the school system as the school wasn’t interested in resolving its own issue “in house” as it was, and that our boy hitting male puberty…not that that physically gives anyone a physical advantage in a combat sport like life, but….
….it made it really tough to sell $3/box mandatory chocolate almonds door to door in a few years at 6’5” & close to 260lbs.
That HAS been the issue for me in this tangent of the debate on this topic. I’ve been pretty consistent from the beginning, but I approached it from the parental standpoint instead of the LGBTQ++etc…point.
Has been for me. Probably for the other 80%-ish of Canadians is a survey from about a week or two back also. Sometimes two issues cross, like this situation, where you’re advocating for LGBTQ…etc…children’s rights, and I’m advocating for parents rights over school board policies, and though they intersect, they’re potentially two different things. We might have closer positions than you realize, but how to separate the two different crossing issues here?
Your position has been to protect all kids (in the camp that you defend) from their parents ‘cuz some of those parents might be shit parents….I get that. Even tried to point that out earlier on in an attempt to find a middle ground. I understand your position, but there’s two different things at play here.
I’ve had a different position, from a first hand experience, with school boards deciding what a parent does or doesn’t need to know about their own child, so I’ve come at this debate from that position…
Then that’s where a Social Safety Net comes into play. Police intervention (if they’re interested), social services, foster care where parents that give a shit can become the 2.0 parents for that child, etc… as opposed to preemptively deciding that some parents are bad, so ALL must be kept in the dark by policy, because that’s not the answer either.
I hear this a lot. I’m not belittling it, but it’s becoming like a “kid that cried wolf” position from the outside looking in Serryah.
If there’s a realistic possibility that a child is going to commit suicide because they don’t get their way for the 1/3 of their day that they are at school, perhaps professional, help from a psychiatrist or sociologist, or some other “ologist” or “trist” is needed for that child instead of a teacher deciding that their needing to be that kids Buddy over being that kids teacher is the priority in this situation.
No, not “Screw the GLBTQIA+ (did you screw up the order here or did it change when I wasn’t paying attention?) kids” but involve the parents…& if “some” of those parents are fuck ups, then deal with those parents being fuck ups… as opposed to the blanket policy of assuming that all parents don’t give a shit, and all parents must be kept in the dark because some parents must be like Joe Dirt’s parents.
(If some of the parents are really that big of losers…. getting the kid out of that situation might be the best thing, & maybe they aren’t even in the Alphabet Camp, but using that as a tool to get the attention to get out of a shitty home life)
This is potentially a slippery slope here, and the justification for “Don’t tell the parents ‘cuz” in this situation as policy will inevitably be used for other situations….
I wasn’t the “cool” parent, but I was the parent who knew when to be a parent & not my Sons buddy when the situation required it.
Sometimes that required diplomacy, and sometimes discipline, and sometimes just perspective on the scale, and sometimes violence on strangers when the system failed. I’m not advocating for that, but just pointing out that was reality.
From your position Serryah, I’m assuming your Father didn’t deal well with your fluidity or whatever, and for that I’m sorry you might have gone through what you did.
OK. First off, I'm glad your son came out of it OK. Better than OK, he solved the problem on his own. Sounds like his school gave him one of the most important lessons of his life.
Second, sorry the cop was an asshole, but better get used to it. As long as the system rewards that kind of behavior, it will continue. As long as people bellow about "Backing the Blue," the Blue will continue to behave any damn way it pleases. And Lord Acton's line about "Power tends to corrupt" wouldn't have lived down through the ages without being an expression of a fundamental truth.
Third, systems protect themselves. That's a maxim of organizational behavior. Every organization, regardless of its reason for being, immediately takes on as its top priority the continuance of its existence and increase of its power. I gather, perhaps incorrectly, that you run a trucking company of some sort. Do your employees stick together? Against you sometimes? Have you occasionally concealed a fuck-up from the authorities for the sake of your company (and therefore yourself and your people)? This is fundamental human nature, from the Hill People vs. the Valley People to Corporations vs. the Government, Country vs. Country, and of course, within each of these organizations, countless petty factions vs. countless other petty factions.
Fourth, all of this is exacerbated by the tendency of all sides to regulate to the extreme case. It's a cheesy little game they play in any and all subjects. You take what you don't like and want to ban, find or invent the worst possible case of it, and scream that this is what will happen if it's allowed AT ALL. Abortion will lead to partial-birth abortion for birth control. Banning abortion will lead to mother and foetus dying. Smoking marijuana will inevitably lead to heroin addiction. Betting a couple of bucks on a hockey game will inevitably lead to losing your life savings, your house, your job, etc. Allowing gays to just live their damn lives will inevitably lead to the rape of small children. All of this horse shit is why the law is so shot-through with exceptions, justifications, excuses, and "affirmative defenses." A rule of "schools will keep everything they know confidential from parents" is as dangerous and stupid as a rule of "schools will tell every parent everything they find out." Makes for great internet back n' forth, hurling anecdotes at each other. Not so good for policies.
Here's the most important lesson your son learned from his experience. . . you're on your own. Each of is primarily responsible for their own welfare and happiness. I would point out that your whole experience with the school and the idiot with the badge was merely the sequel. The main story was already done.
You do what you can for your kids. Schools do what they can for your kids. And shit goes wrong. And rules create as many problems as they solve.
Welcome to life.
We probably do but as you said, how do we separate the two issues?
No.
My position has been to protect kids from the parents that ARE shitty parents. I recognize - and have said repeatedly - not all parents are crap parents. And usually they already know their kid is GLBTQIA+, which is why I also said those aren't the ones that need to be worried about.
There's a lot of different things at play here.
I get that especially after what you've said about your son.
Okay.
So kid is trans. Does NOT want parents to know they are socially transitioning by using proper gender pronouns to their gender/new name. Asks teachers not to mention it to their parents because the kid knows from experience they will not take it well.
As things stand now - and what you suggest here - is that suddenly the cops get involved, therapists, psychologists, councilors, all suddenly get involved and push the kid to come out to the parents.
Do you honestly think any kid going through this is going to be okay after? They've learned that they can't really trust adults, that adults don't trust them and regardless of their wishes, they are still outed to their parents, under pressure of other adults.
...
Considering the stats, it's not the "kid that cried wolf", Ron, it's a fucking reality.
Okay... right there, this convo is over.
And out of respect for you, I'm not going to give into the absolute anger/fury I am feeling right now and will just step away from this.
You will not, and I'm not sure you will ever, understand, and we'll just leave it at that.
This (below) has NOTHING to do with LGBTQAnything, & everything to do with keeping parents in the dark about their children…& that’s without a policy in place to keep parents in the dark that can be co-opted for other purposes…
www.theglobeandmail.com
Police were told in November 2019 that a student had been sexually assaulted by an education assistant, who was quickly removed from the school without any attempt made to identify other potential victims.
The ombudsman’s report says it was the CBC story 19 months later that prompted the notification from the Education Department.
“The Department did an about-face and began sharing information about the sexualized abuse of a school student because the ... matter went public in the media and the department found itself unexpectedly having to react to the result,” the report says.
“If it were not for the media story, we are of the view that the department would likely have maintained its silence about the ... matter, thus perpetuating the unfairness of depriving the parents from taking any timely action concerning their children and also withholding information that, once released, directly led to two more disclosures of criminal behaviour.”
“We acknowledge that more (like inform the parents?) should have been done to inform parents and to support students and their families following the incident,” she says. “We are learning from our mistakes. We are implementing real changes to minimize the likelihood that incidents like these take place in the future.”
Only media report spurred Yukon to tell parents of sexual abuse in a school, report shows
Yukon’s ombudsman says school kept parents in the dark for 19 months following sexual assault of child
www.theglobeandmail.com
The ombudsman’s report says it was the CBC story 19 months later that prompted the notification from the Education Department.
“The Department did an about-face and began sharing information about the sexualized abuse of a school student because the ... matter went public in the media and the department found itself unexpectedly having to react to the result,” the report says.
“If it were not for the media story, we are of the view that the department would likely have maintained its silence about the ... matter, thus perpetuating the unfairness of depriving the parents from taking any timely action concerning their children and also withholding information that, once released, directly led to two more disclosures of criminal behaviour.”
“We acknowledge that more (like inform the parents?) should have been done to inform parents and to support students and their families following the incident,” she says. “We are learning from our mistakes. We are implementing real changes to minimize the likelihood that incidents like these take place in the future.”
This will be the end of schools if the attacks on parental rights continue.This (below) has NOTHING to do with LGBTQAnything, & everything to do with keeping parents in the dark about their children…& that’s without a policy in place to keep parents in the dark that can be co-opted for other purposes…
Police were told in November 2019 that a student had been sexually assaulted by an education assistant, who was quickly removed from the school without any attempt made to identify other potential victims.Only media report spurred Yukon to tell parents of sexual abuse in a school, report shows
Yukon’s ombudsman says school kept parents in the dark for 19 months following sexual assault of child
The ombudsman’s report says it was the CBC story 19 months later that prompted the notification from the Education Department.
“The Department did an about-face and began sharing information about the sexualized abuse of a school student because the ... matter went public in the media and the department found itself unexpectedly having to react to the result,” the report says.
“If it were not for the media story, we are of the view that the department would likely have maintained its silence about the ... matter, thus perpetuating the unfairness of depriving the parents from taking any timely action concerning their children and also withholding information that, once released, directly led to two more disclosures of criminal behaviour.”
“We acknowledge that more (like inform the parents?) should have been done to inform parents and to support students and their families following the incident,” she says. “We are learning from our mistakes. We are implementing real changes to minimize the likelihood that incidents like these take place in the future.”
Adam Zivo: Schools should take a 'don’t help, don’t tell' approach to pronouns — National Post
Adopting a middle-ground approach to trans-identifying students may leave many dissatisfied, but that's the nature of compromise
It's a fad. There a word for it when teens fall into a group mindset that is false.An effort towards middle ground?
Adam Zivo: Schools should take a 'don’t help, don’t tell' approach to pronouns — National Post
Adopting a middle-ground approach to trans-identifying students may leave many dissatisfied, but that's the nature of compromiseapple.news
An effort towards middle ground?Adam Zivo: Schools should take a 'don’t help, don’t tell' approach to pronouns — National Post
Adopting a middle-ground approach to trans-identifying students may leave many dissatisfied, but that's the nature of compromise
No.
You can’t hide Strap on EBay Z-Cups…
Yep, that’s a pickle alright.
Except….maybe not.
A she-said, they-said, he’s saying, etc…
So….that was somewhat interesting. My biggest issue was shop safety. Dangling lanyards. Loose hair around power tools.It was a standoff. A she-said, they-said scenario.
This teacher was put on paid leave Tuesday when Education Minister Stephen Lecce, as well as Halton Region MPPs Natalie Pierre, Stephen Crawford, and Effie Triantafilopoulos all blasted the board for having “abdicated its responsibility by failing to put the interests and safety of students first.”
The board responded and while Lemieux is out of the school, “we continue to support the teacher in partnership with OSSTF (Ontario Secondary School Teacher’s Federation.)”
A big story for months, interest in the Lemieux affair is now flattening. This has quickly changed from a public safety issue to one of personal support for a teacher, who is now said to be receiving some.
Several parents who complained are now saying as long as the bomb threats stop, they are ready to move on.
WARMINGTON: The Kayla Lemieux show cancelled; no longer at Oakville school
It was, ironically, a picture of an Oakville teacher reportedly dressed as a man — not ones of the shop instructor clothed as a busty woman — that led to that persontorontosun.com