A Harper majority would harm Canada and the world.

[darkbeaver]

Oh, so you want the government to regulate everything you and/or a business does?? That'll reailly help the economy; I can just see jobs galore under those circumstances.

Let me repeat, government has no business getting involved in business. Socialism does not encourage investment nor does it create jobs - businesses do. And, if government stays out of the way, businesses flourish and create jobs. If there's a demand for a service or a "ditty", there's someone out there who will try to address it, or improve on it or invent it. Governments should only ensure that companies treat their employees fairly, that they are environmentally responsible, that they pay their (and the employee's portion) of taxes - in otherwords, that they are good corporate citizens - that's it!! Otherwise, why would anyone go into business when all they could count on is government interference? Why the hell bother?? I just don't get it.

JMO

Mr Paulson would argue with you.

 

[china]

Q

uoting Colpy Do I want to give my vote to a gov't that supports two great friends, democracies, bastions of western civilization, or to a gov't that loves China,

Be careful junior , China .

 

[Northboy]

Oh, so you want the government to regulate everything you and/or a business does?? That'll reailly help the economy; I can just see jobs galore under those circumstances.

Let me repeat, government has no business getting involved in business. Socialism does not encourage investment nor does it create jobs - businesses do. And, if government stays out of the way, businesses flourish and create jobs. If there's a demand for a service or a "ditty", there's someone out there who will try to address it, or improve on it or invent it. Governments should only ensure that companies treat their employees fairly, that they are environmentally responsible, that they pay their (and the employee's portion) of taxes - in otherwords, that they are good corporate citizens - that's it!! Otherwise, why would anyone go into business when all they could count on is government interference? Why the hell bother?? I just don't get it.

JMO

So you think I'm a socialist do you?

Socialism and capitalism are just different faces of the same coin. They both lead to centralized control, or that is their intent.They just use different methods.

No, I believe in commonwealth which is based on decentralized control and the empowerment of the people to have more say in things that affect their lives.
I see business as a partner in such a program, making decision making on all sides closer to the ground. I believe in particapatory (sp?) democracy.

The issue is not the marketplace per se, but where does the marketplace end and infrastructure begin? That is for the people to decide. If they want to participate in certain areas that they consider infrastructue, then so be it.Would I rather see hydro power generation and water systems in the hands of the government? You bet, should the people participate in issues of logistics? That's up to them. The problem with the marketplace is that it only responds effectively to need and scale. Many communities have enormous need in these areas, but not the scale. Should not the people help in the development of the commonwealth through support of infrastructure? Should we have a country where one must live in the urban environment to have a Canadian quality of life?
Many corporations that I come in contact with are asking these questions, but without government partnership, nothing would happen.

I willingly admit that Mr. Harper shares some of these views and envisions a strong nation through the strategic distribution of procurement. Heck I might had something to do with the crafting of such things.

The main problem I have with Mr. Harper, and his team I might add as all those who deal with government will know, is their method of going about it.

Oh, yeah, as for the politics, the best method of approaching today's problems in my view is Social Credit.

 

[china]

Northboy

Socialism and capitalism are just different faces of the same coin.

True
Capitalism is people taking advantage of other people.
In socialism it's the other way around .

 

[Dixie Cup]

I strongly disagree, this world is not at peace not even close and the more technology we gain the more powerful weapons we make the more damage can be done from violence. If we don't stop the violence it will stop us. We need to realize this before its to late. Only kindness, forgiveness, respect and understanding are things that will bring peace.

OMG how I wish....I hate war and I too believe that violence begets violence; I'm extremely happy that Canada chose not to become involved in Iraq.

Having said that, how do you, Spocq, propose that deal with individuals, (tyrants/dictators), who don't think as we do?? How do we deal with the Irainian Molahs; Al-queda? (sp) and others who love to others to die for their beliefs? How do you diplomatically deal with people who have no respect for life?? How do you deal with individuals who have no hesitation in sending one of their own to die for Allah? Do we just let them "do their thing?" As they kill thousands of their own, we just do nothing?? I dunno, just askin'

I wish the answers were easy. I wish that the Americans and Canadians (and others, obviously) were just to leave and let these countries do "their thing" everyone would be happy the world over. But is that realistic and is it true?? Would the world be a safer and happier place?? Again, just askin'

World peace and harmony would be my greatest dream, but sometimes we have to fight for what is right. I guess the determination is when is it appropriate and when is it not.

JMO

 

[Dixie Cup]

So you think I'm a socialist do you?

Socialism and capitalism are just different faces of the same coin. They both lead to centralized control, or that is their intent.They just use different methods.

No, I believe in commonwealth which is based on decentralized control and the empowerment of the people to have more say in things that affect their lives.
I see business as a partner in such a program, making decision making on all sides closer to the ground. I believe in particapatory (sp?) democracy.

The issue is not the marketplace per se, but where does the marketplace end and infrastructure begin? That is for the people to decide. If they want to participate in certain areas that they consider infrastructue, then so be it.Would I rather see hydro power generation and water systems in the hands of the government? You bet, should the people participate in issues of logistics? That's up to them. The problem with the marketplace is that it only responds effectively to need and scale. Many communities have enormous need in these areas, but not the scale. Should not the people help in the development of the commonwealth through support of infrastructure? Should we have a country where one must live in the urban environment to have a Canadian quality of life?
Many corporations that I come in contact with are asking these questions, but without government partnership, nothing would happen.

I willingly admit that Mr. Harper shares some of these views and envisions a strong nation through the strategic distribution of procurement. Heck I might had something to do with the crafting of such things.

The main problem I have with Mr. Harper, and his team I might add as all those who deal with government will know, is their method of going about it.

Oh, yeah, as for the politics, the best method of approaching today's problems in my view is Social Credit.

Actually Northboy, I only disagree part of your post.

Government can (and does to some extent) need to be involved in such a situation as you described. I have no issue with that. What I do have an issue with are regulations and interference governments tend to employ that are suppose to benefit but, in fact, do just the opposite.

Since most businesses who actually "employ" people (70%+) are small businesses, I hardly think that their main objective is to "centralize control" - they just want to make a profit and do what they do best.

As for Mr. Harper, I'm quite happy with the way things are unfolding. Not sure about all this "green" BS from him and the opposition - I personally think it's BS and a lot of people are going to get rich on the average Canadian's dollar and we're all going to be poorer for it with no recognizable results; we'll have nothing to show for it.

But he's firm, resolved and, according to my MP, very open to discussion about various issues with all members. Obviously I don't agree 100% with everything he says, but I believe he's the best of what we have on tap!

JMO



JMO

 

[Dixie Cup]

Northboy


True
Capitalism is people taking advantage of other people.
In socialism it's the other way around .

Socialism is what killed the Soviet Union and brought down the wall!!

I doubt if we really want to go there!

JMO

 

[darkbeaver]

I strongly disagree, this world is not at peace not even close and the more technology we gain the more powerful weapons we make the more damage can be done from violence. If we don't stop the violence it will stop us. We need to realize this before its to late. Only kindness, forgiveness, respect and understanding are things that will bring peace.

OMG how I wish....I hate war and I too believe that violence begets violence; I'm extremely happy that Canada chose not to become involved in Iraq.

Having said that, how do you, Spocq, propose that deal with individuals, (tyrants/dictators), who don't think as we do?? How do we deal with the Irainian Molahs; Al-queda? (sp) and others who love to others to die for their beliefs? How do you diplomatically deal with people who have no respect for life?? How do you deal with individuals who have no hesitation in sending one of their own to die for Allah? Do we just let them "do their thing?" As they kill thousands of their own, we just do nothing?? I dunno, just askin'

I wish the answers were easy. I wish that the Americans and Canadians (and others, obviously) were just to leave and let these countries do "their thing" everyone would be happy the world over. But is that realistic and is it true?? Would the world be a safer and happier place?? Again, just askin'

World peace and harmony would be my greatest dream, but sometimes we have to fight for what is right. I guess the determination is when is it appropriate and when is it not.

JMO

I thought you didn't like Amhadinejads speech, you just repeated some of it.

 

[darkbeaver]

Northboy


True
Capitalism is people taking advantage of other people.
In socialism it's the other way around .

Niether is true and you know it.

 

[Spocq]

Boy where to start!! First of all Canadian conservatives are closer to the democrats in the U.S. we don't actually have a right wing party by U.S. standards. Second we are in good shape..yes that may change, but right now there is a surplus, not giant financial company going under. We have high debt, but nowhere near the U.S. and our property values didn't jump so fast tht there is nothingto back up the debt. (this is the U.S. problem) the assets have crumbled so there is no calateral against the loans.

After all that said. The conservatives have had a majority for the 2 years they were in..slight tweaking of policy but nothing major, not chance of the liberals voting them out...they ran as if they have a majority.

Further to all of this, if some are so worried about these majorities where is the talk of an elected Senate that could be the checks and balances for the house?

The average Canadian is more in debt then the average American, are you sure we are in such good shape. I'm not convinced and neither are most of the Canadian people.

Conservatives have not had a majority for the past 2 years.

The last time the conservatives were in power Mulroney put our country pretty deep in debt, what makes you think Harper wont do the same thing once he gets his majority. The liberal party got us out of that debt.

 

[darkbeaver]

Can Harper be stopped in the coming election? I am fearful that once again the voting will be tampered with and we will be plunged into the dark ages of regressive neo-conservatism in this innocent land.

 

[Colpy]

Geez Beav! Cut it out, will ya!

How in the world do you expect Dark Lord Harper and his Evil Zombie minions to emerge victorious if you don't get with the program?

You're just no fun at all....

Go suck a tree, will ya?

 

[china]

Dixie Cup

Socialism is what killed the Soviet Union and brought down the wall!!

Nope , it wasn't the socialism's fault that killed the Soviet Union ,it was a human greed ,

I doubt if we really want to go there!

We are well on our way .

 

[china]

In socialism it's the other way around . Niether is true and you know it.

Yes I know it darkbeaver:
Born in Poland under Soviet occupation .13 ys .
Lived in Canada and Us,(Democracy,Capitalism) 40 yrs.
Reside in People's Republic of China -6 years ..(.more Capitalism in China than in USA).If you will allow a system to dictate your life obviously you will prefer one system over the other .
Systems are all the same ........ they take away your freedom .

 

[Northboy]

Northboy


True
Capitalism is people taking advantage of other people.
In socialism it's the other way around .

I look at it as they both build pyramid organizations and heirarchies, and I don't personally agree that this is the best way to "manage" public affairs.

 

[earth_as_one]

Unregulated capitalism is self destructive. Everyone would trash their neighbor. Too much socialism and there's no incentive to be productive. Best is a balance between capitalism and socialism.

By the way, the $700 bilion dollar bailout being proposed down south is socialism. But a socialist bailout has become necessary because the Americans haven't been socialist enough. The entire mess could have been avoided if the US banks were as socially controlled as Canadian banks.

Other examples of socialism:
Canada Pension Plan
Universal Health Care
Public Education
Minimum Wage
Public Broadcasting

Potential Socialist improvements:
Free Merit Based University
Stronger Anti-Pollution Regulation
Increased Minimum Wage
Increased Pensions
Increased Consumer Protection
Treating Drug Addiction as an illness rather than a crime
Support for the Arts and Culture

The Harper conservatives are too far to the right. They plan to reshape Canada in the image of the US. They have no plans to reduce the cost of university, reduce pollution and greenhouse gas emissions, raise pensions and minimum wage, protect consumers and will fill our prisons with drug addicts. Harper neocons are against gay marriage, abortion and pro-death penalty.

If you like George Bush's ideology, think Canada isn't enough like the US, and want Canada to become one of the United States, then vote for Harper:

July 13, 2008
PM clings to Bush's tattered coattails

Stephen Harper's stance on Omar Khadr is not surprising.

Given a choice between standing up for a Canadian citizen and standing by the United States or Israel, the Prime Minister chooses the latter.

His government has maligned Louise Arbour, the distinguished jurist. Her crime? As head of the United Nations Commission for Human Rights, she criticized the U.S. (for Guantanamo Bay) and Israel (for civilian casualties during its 2006 invasion of Lebanon).

In that war, Canadian Forces Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener was killed by an Israeli bomb, along with three others at a UN monitoring mission. Harper wouldn't criticize Israel or help Hess-von Kruedener's wife, Cynthia.

Harper is similarly refusing to budge on the Khadr case, despite disturbing new revelations that the youth was subjected to the torture of sleep deprivation, a tactic since prohibited by the U.S. military.

In fact, our Prime Minister has let it be known that he prefers Gitmo's discredited military trials to the Canadian justice system:

"Mr. Khadr is accused of very serious things. There is a legal process in the United States ... Frankly, we do not have a real alternative to that process to get to the truth about those accusations."

Even Khadr's American military lawyer, Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler, found that "preposterous."

Harper, he said, should "stand up as the Prime Minister of Canada and protect the rights of a Canadian citizen, and stop taking his orders from the Bush administration and stop being the last leader of a Western country to support a failed process in Guantanamo Bay."

A similar sentiment was expressed on the same day by New Democrat Alexa McDonough: "We have a Prime Minister who alone in the world still considers George Bush his political hero."

I had asked her about the sustainability of Harper's position boycotting Hamas and Hezbollah, when Israel itself is dealing with both, and also Syria:

* Using Egypt as a mediator, Israel worked out a ceasefire that has more or less held in the Gaza Strip since June 19. Israel is also negotiating the swap of a soldier captured by Hamas two years ago for the release of jailed Palestinians.
* Using the United Nations as mediator, Israel is close to a deal with Hezbollah for the return of two soldiers whose capture triggered the war in Lebanon. Israel is also ready to talk with Lebanon about a tiny piece of Israeli-occupied land, known as Shabaa Farms.
* Using Turkey as a mediator, Israel has held two rounds of talks with Syria about a peace treaty.

If Israel is talking to all the relevant parties, why can't Canada?

McDonough: "Whether it's the Israeli-Palestinian dispute or Iran, we can't seem to get our government to understand that a policy of belligerence doesn't do anything to advance peace."

On the Iran nuclear issue, Harper sides with the hard-line American-Israeli approach, which is inching toward a military confrontation.

Israel sent 100 warplanes 1,400 kilometres on what was said to be a trial run for attacking Iran's nuclear facilities. Iran fired off missiles said to be capable of reaching Israel. It also threatened to hit neighbours hosting American bases (that would be Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, etc.) Condoleezza Rice said the U.S. would protect its allies.

So it goes - and so goes the price of oil skyward.

Taking out Iranian nuclear facilities won't be as easy as the 1981 Israeli attack on Osirak, the Iraqi reactor. Iranian facilities are dispersed and deep underground. The Iranian capacity to muck up the Strait of Hormuz, from whence flows oil, should not be underestimated, nor its readiness to use its proxies in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, the Gaza Strip and elsewhere.

This is a time for Canada to diffuse tensions, not add to them by aping the disastrous policies of Bush.

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/459021

Still want to vote for the Harper neocons?

 

[Spocq]

I strongly disagree, this world is not at peace not even close and the more technology we gain the more powerful weapons we make the more damage can be done from violence. If we don't stop the violence it will stop us. We need to realize this before its to late. Only kindness, forgiveness, respect and understanding are things that will bring peace.

OMG how I wish....I hate war and I too believe that violence begets violence; I'm extremely happy that Canada chose not to become involved in Iraq.

Having said that, how do you, Spocq, propose that deal with individuals, (tyrants/dictators), who don't think as we do?? How do we deal with the Irainian Molahs; Al-queda? (sp) and others who love to others to die for their beliefs? How do you diplomatically deal with people who have no respect for life?? How do you deal with individuals who have no hesitation in sending one of their own to die for Allah? Do we just let them "do their thing?" As they kill thousands of their own, we just do nothing?? I dunno, just askin'

I wish the answers were easy. I wish that the Americans and Canadians (and others, obviously) were just to leave and let these countries do "their thing" everyone would be happy the world over. But is that realistic and is it true?? Would the world be a safer and happier place?? Again, just askin'

World peace and harmony would be my greatest dream, but sometimes we have to fight for what is right. I guess the determination is when is it appropriate and when is it not.

JMO

With our technology we can find ways to capture these tyrants/dictators without killing them let alone killing innocent people. I think all the civilized countries should make a law that killing another human for any reason is against the law. Anyone who kills another person should be captured and brought to justice.

 

[Spocq]

I don't want people to have children who can't afford to raise them.

What if it was not a planned pregnancy.

 

[Walter]

Still want to vote for the Harper neocons?

Yes, doesn't everyone?

 

[Walter]

What if it was not a planned pregnancy.

Plan better.