Man dies after Taser shock by police at Vancouver airport

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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Colpy is a pompus ass na na nanana haha ha haha:lol:

Colpy is an arrogant, pompous ass.

Dark Beaver is emeshed in a web of envy, wishing, praying, entwined in a great desire: if only he were smart enough to be a pompous ass.

ps: na na na na ha ha ha ha ha HA!

:)
 

Lithp

Electoral Member
Mar 16, 2005
114
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What's your definition of 'withstanding'? I've never seen anyone carry on normally during or shortly after a tasering, in any of the vids or news articles I've seen on it. Being too crippled with pain to express it isn't really the same as 'withstanding' it, is it? Just a thought.

Most people cannot withstand the shock of a taser during the electric burst. However immediately after being tasered you are able to function normally. That is what I meant by "withstand". In other words its amazing the amount of pain a person can feel without dying or passing out. The taser is a very effctive tool. And once a person is tasered they will never want it again. I have a couple of videos of me being tasered and you can see that i am completely incapacitated during.. but laugh immediately once it is finished. (I laugh because everyone is laughing at me- not because I am super tough).
The taser is probably the best tool ever invented to deal with (potentially or actually) dangerous persons. The tasering at the Vancouver airport was completely justified. Airports are secure areas. If he was in any other country he would have been shot. It's tragic that he died though. But when you think of the small number of persons who died as a result of its deployment compared to its hundreds of thousands of uses it is a good weapon.
My friend has been tasered 35 times. He has even been tasered with 2 tasers at once. The taser is the best!
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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Halifax, NS & Melbourne, VIC
RCMP e-mails throw Dziekanski Taser probe into question, critics say



RCMP head, premier offered support to officers after immigrant's death, according to e-mails among force's top brass
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2008/07/16/bc-rcmp-emails-taser.html

Documents obtained by CBC News cast doubt on the RCMP's sincerity in vows to get to the bottom of the Taser-related death of Robert Dziekanski, according to a civil rights group and the lawyer for Dziekanski's family.

The case that ignited international debate and led to a number of probes into the use of stun guns by police forces, including an inquiry called by the B.C. government, an internal investigation by the RCMP and an investigation by the RCMP public complaints commissioner.

Dziekanski died after being zapped with a stun gun at the Vancouver International Airport on Oct. 14, 2007, by RCMP officers who were called to help deal with the Polish immigrant, who apparently became agitated from spending 10 hours at the airport. From that day, RCMP e-mail exchanges obtained by access to information requests suggest the force moved quickly to create a strategy.

The strategy involved all answers being vetted in Ottawa, including ones described by RCMP Commissioner William Elliott as "tough or dirty questions" from the media.

But the e-mail exchange between the RCMP in British Columbia and the force's headquarters in Ottawa have prompted questions from the B.C. Civil Liberties Association and Walter Kosteckyj, a lawyer representing Dziekanski's mother. They say the e-mails call into question the RCMP's public vows for transparency and accountability in the case.

A day after the release of an eyewitness video of the events leading up to Dziekanski's death, the RCMP commissioner called the four officers involved in the incident and expressed his support, according to the partially redacted e-mails.

"I have just now placed calls to all four members. I spoke to three of the four," Elliott wrote in an e-mail dated Nov. 15 to Gary Bass, the RCMP deputy commissioner for the Pacific region.

"I know this is tough on you and all our folks in E Division. Please be assured of my ongoing support," Elliott wrote.
Commissioner's calls a 'big hit'

Bass responds the next day, writing that the commissioner's calls "were a big hit" at the Richmond detachment where the four officers work.

In another e-mail from Bass, dated Nov. 24, he describes bumping into B.C. Premier Gordon Campbell at the airport, saying the premier also expressed support for the officers and the continued use of Tasers. Campbell said Wednesday that he offered support out of compassion for the officers, not as a signal he was siding with them.

The e-mails also suggest that a number of senior RCMP officers were worried about being crucified in the media but felt the four officers at the airport had acted properly.
'Pat on the back' not appropriate, critic says

The B.C. Civil Liberties Association and Kosteckyj — who represents Dziekanski's mother, Zofia Cisowski — say they're worried about the comments.

Kosteckyj said that given multiple investigations into the officers' actions, the commissioner should not have picked up the phone to reassure members they were on "safe ground."

"[Cisowski] took everybody at their word that there would be a full and frank investigation. And it appears that from the get-go there was at least some indication that this was more about monitoring the press rather than jumping into that investigation in an independent way," Kosteckyj told CBC News on Thursday morning.

Robert Holmes, president of the B.C. Civil Liberties Association, said Elliott's personal calls to the four RCMP officers were inappropriate.

"I don't know how many other people in this country who were under investigation for the use of force that they applied in whatever the circumstance might be, get a phone call from the head of the RCMP giving them a pat on the back," Holmes said Wednesday.

The RCMP did not respond to questions from CBC News on Wednesday about the e-mails.
Premier 'complimentary' of officers: Bass

The e-mail written by Bass on Nov. 24 indicates that Campbell was "highly complimentary" of the police force despite the fact Dziekanski's death was still under investigation.

The e-mail was addressed to Elliott and Bill Sweeney, an RCMP deputy commissioner and special adviser to the commissioner.

"I just ran into our premier at the airport and we had a great 20-minute discussion on this issue generally.… He was highly complimentary of the force, disappointed over the degree of criticism and wants to support the members involved somehow," Bass wrote.

"He [Campbell] asked me to think about what he could do in this regard.… He supports the continued use of Taser and any other tools which support and protect our members."

"He said the inquiry will not be a negative attack on the force but a focused examination of all the issues," Bass wrote.

The B.C. Taser inquiry, headed by retired B.C. Court of Appeal justice Thomas Braidwood, was called after Dziekanski's death.

This first phase of the inquiry, which ended in May, focused on Taser use, as well as deaths and injuries associated with the weapon. Numerous medical experts expressed concerns about the risks, while police officers testified Tasers save lives.

The second phase of the inquiry, which will begin in October, will focus on Dziekanski's death. Crown prosecutors have not made a decision about whether charges will be laid in the incident at the Vancouver airport.
An offer of personal support only: premier

Holmes said the premier's private comments are troubling because they are at odds with his public condolences to the Dziekanski family.

"In the background we have him talking with someone inside the RCMP in a fashion that would suggest it's all a masquerade," Holmes said.

Kosteckyj said Campbell's conversation with Bass raises questions about his objectivity as the premier.

"I would have serious questions about those comments in those circumstances," Kosteckyj said.

Campbell responded to criticism by saying some of the details of the meeting are unclear, but he intended only to offer a private statement of support.

"I would be, you know, it would be nice to offer them personal support. It had nothing to do with whether we were getting to the bottom of the situation. That's why we were having the inquiry," Campbell said.

As for his support for Tasers, Campbell said if the inquiry recommends the weapons be abandoned, it's something his government will consider.
 

Scott Free

House Member
May 9, 2007
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Police taser injured boy 19 times

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Missouri Police taser injured boy 19 times

[/FONT]Sara Sheffield reports on an injured teen from Ozark, Missouri who was tasered up to 19 times by police. Passing motorists called Ozark police out of concern for the teen as he walked along the busy overpass. When the police arrived, the young man was lying on the shoulder of the highway directly underneath the 30 foot high overpass with a broken back and foot.
Doctors believe 16-year-old Mace Hutchinson broke his back and heel after falling, as his injuries are consistent with such a fall. The boy's family does not understand why police would have tasered the the teen 19 times after he was so seriously injured.

The teen's father said that the use of the taser caused Mace to develop an elevated white blood cell count, leading to a fever that delayed the young man's otherwise immediate surgery by two days.
Ozark Police Capt. Thomas Rousset attempted to explain why the taser was used:
"He refused to comply with the officers and so the officers had to deploy their Tasers in order to subdue him. He is making incoherent statements; he's also making statements such as, 'Shoot cops, kill cops,' things like that. So there was cause for concern to the officers."

Ozark police say that while there remains unanswered questions in the case, the reason for the use of the Taser is not one of them.

This video is from KY3 News, broadcast July 24, 2008.

Source and video

Unbelievable! :angryfire:
 

Outta here

Senate Member
Jul 8, 2005
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I'm struck speechless. Again. Every time I read one of these stories of taser abuse, I think "well now I've heard the worst"... and then along comes a story that's worse. WTF. :angryfire::angryfire::angryfire:
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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Wow. All I can think is how incoherent I was with a relatively minor head injury after a roll over. When some guys took a t-shirt and started trying to bandage my shredded hand before the drive to the hospital, I freaked out and tried to get away from them, thinking for some reason that these guys, who I went to school with every day, were trying to tie me up. Ludicrous looking back since we were standing on the side of a road, surrounded by people. But I was convinced of it at the time. I can only imagine who incoherent and out of it that young man would be. Why would they think it could possibly warrant taser use? The one comment the officer made on the video that they left out of the written article was 'to keep him out of traffic.', but seriously, how can you not be able to subdue someone who just fell off a bridge?
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Missouri Police taser injured boy 19 times[/FONT]Sara Sheffield reports on an injured teen from Ozark, Missouri who was tasered up to 19 times by police. Passing motorists called Ozark police out of concern for the teen as he walked along the busy overpass. When the police arrived, the young man was lying on the shoulder of the highway directly underneath the 30 foot high overpass with a broken back and foot.
Doctors believe 16-year-old Mace Hutchinson broke his back and heel after falling, as his injuries are consistent with such a fall. The boy's family does not understand why police would have tasered the the teen 19 times after he was so seriously injured.

The teen's father said that the use of the taser caused Mace to develop an elevated white blood cell count, leading to a fever that delayed the young man's otherwise immediate surgery by two days.
Ozark Police Capt. Thomas Rousset attempted to explain why the taser was used:
"He refused to comply with the officers and so the officers had to deploy their Tasers in order to subdue him. He is making incoherent statements; he's also making statements such as, 'Shoot cops, kill cops,' things like that. So there was cause for concern to the officers."

Ozark police say that while there remains unanswered questions in the case, the reason for the use of the Taser is not one of them.

This video is from KY3 News, broadcast July 24, 2008.

Source and video

Unbelievable! :angryfire:

You're right on that one....beyond belief!
 

Lithp

Electoral Member
Mar 16, 2005
114
1
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The taser is used in two modes: touch stun and probes. I wasn't there but I would speculate that the taser was used in touch stun mode accounting for most if not all of the contacts. When you read that the subject was tasered 19 times it most likely does not mean 19 seperate incidents. In touch stun mode if a person thrashes about the taser may leave several marks where it made contact with a person. Sort of like if you were to try to write on somebody with a pen and they kept moving- you would see several pen marks eventhough you may have only made one attempt to write on someone. The cycle lasts for 5 seconds so several visible inpact points would be left behind on a person thrashing about.
Why do I assume that he was thrashing about when they say he had a broken back and was lying on the ground? The pain of being tasered is greater than that of breaking your back. Anyone who is not paralyzed would attempt to avoid the taser once deployed. They mention that he was in danger of going into traffic so he must have had some mobility anyways.
Have I experienced the pain of breaking my back? No and I would not want to. Have I ever been tasered? Yes. 5 times. In both modes. After the first time I vowed never to be tasered again. I said that after the second too :smile:
My post is not a comment on the conduct of the police or the subject. Just on what can potentially happen in that type of situarion.
 

Zzarchov

House Member
Aug 28, 2006
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Lithp,

he doesn't need to have mobility, they didn't say he moved, as he didn't prior to them arriving.

They said they tasered him because he was incoherent (he fell of a bridge) and wouldn't comply with commands.

Which considering he was incoherent and paralyzed probably mean the commands were "who are you" and "what is your name"

so they tazed him, realised, uh oh, this is an injured victim and then made up crap about

"kill cops, shoot cops, stuff like that" , which is quite a load of bunk if they can't even remember what he said.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
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Toronto
Excuse me?

Do you EVER think before you post?

The kid had a BROKEN BACK!!!!!

Fer Christ's sake man!
"Ozark Police Capt. Thomas Rousset attempted to explain why the taser was used:
"He refused to comply with the officers and so the officers had to deploy their Tasers in order to subdue him."
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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"Ozark Police Capt. Thomas Rousset attempted to explain why the taser was used:
"He refused to comply with the officers and so the officers had to deploy their Tasers in order to subdue him."


A taser shouldn't be used in any way except as a gun. Now explain to me why you would possibly need to shoot someone who'd just fallen 30 ft and broken their back? How much 'disobeying' could he be doing at that point? How much 'obeying' do you think you could possibly pull off while writhing on the ground after a 30ft fall?

The whole thing stinks of sheer idiocy on the part of the police.
 

Risus

Genius
May 24, 2006
5,373
25
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Toronto
A taser shouldn't be used in any way except as a gun. Now explain to me why you would possibly need to shoot someone who'd just fallen 30 ft and broken their back? How much 'disobeying' could he be doing at that point? How much 'obeying' do you think you could possibly pull off while writhing on the ground after a 30ft fall?

The whole thing stinks of sheer idiocy on the part of the police.
Maybe sheer idiocy, but don't blame racism.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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This whole thing is strange. I would ask how he happened to fall off the overpath. I would also ask why a sixteen year old was saying "Kill cops, shoot cops", after he fell 30 feet and broke his back.....And if he did, why did he require to be tasered? I think the police have more involvement in this event than they are letting on. The current story sounds like BS.
 

scratch

Senate Member
May 20, 2008
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This whole thing is strange. I would ask how he happened to fall off the overpath. I would also ask why a sixteen year old was saying "Kill cops, shoot cops", after he fell 30 feet and broke his back.....And if he did, why did he require to be tasered? I think the police have more involvement in this event than they are letting on. The current story sounds like BS.

I think that the beat cops/patrolers are p-ode at all the extra security that is now around and this is a way of getting attention. Just an idea.