"Identify the Beast"

look3467

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That's one of the points that's always given me pause, essentially because it means god cannot have the characteristics usually ascribed to him. He got it wrong when he set things up the first time, or else it was a deliberate setup, and he expresses considerable chagrin and surprise when he discovers his creatures have eaten from the tree he forbade them. Like he couldn't see that coming? Either way, he's neither omnipotent nor omniscient and is thus, assuming he exists at all, not worthy of unconditional worship.

"It was a deliberate set up", that's a good observation because that is exactly what transpired.
The tree of knowledge is just a way of giving us the story that caused our down fall.
If a baby is born, it is already condemned to die. When? Who knows.
But if that baby never receives no knowledge of any kind,it will be much like an animal.
Intelligence than is a gift disguised as a curse of which only God himself could take away. Of which He did.
He knew exactly what He was doing and what the ramifications all of His creation would bring.
He fooled us intentionally so that we may have the right to challenge Him, and of course, that is very well demonstrated on these forums.
I have posted extensively with hints here and there about that (Deliberate delusion) and hopefully some may pick up on it.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.

Peace>>>AJ
 

Sal

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That is a popular notion. But he is no different than you or I, for he is covered by the blood of the lamb too.

Peace>>>AJ
Thanks look, for taking the time to explain why you do not believe it to be the pope.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I have posted extensively with hints here and there about that (Deliberate delusion) and hopefully some may pick up on it.
But, to Gods credit, He also provided a way to amend the perceived deception, by offering up His Son on our behalf.
Yeah, I've picked up on it, and I don't believe a word of it. That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically--at least according to some so-called Christian groups--that if we don't buy his solution we get to fry forever in the fires of Hell. If when I die I find out that any of this is actually true, I'll tell god to his face that I think he's a liar, a cheat, and a bully. I'll be headed for Hell anyway, there's nothing he could do to make it any worse at that point. What's he going to do, condemn me for eternity plus a day? Might give me a little reputation in Hell though. "Don't mess with that guy, he told god to his face that he's an a$$hole." Maybe the Beelzebubbas will think twice about trying to sodomize me in the sulfur pits.

I simply cannot believe any just, loving, and rational god would behave that way. If there is a god with the characteristics usually attributed to him (which I don't believe), the possibility of redemption must always be open. And if there isn't, this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it. That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. I don't believe Jesus was divine, but he was a smart and perceptive guy who's reported as having said some very sensible things, and a lot of mystical nonsense designed to serve Paul The Tentmaker's political agenda.
 

Walter

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My union keeps telling me that Mike Harris is the beast. I thought it was PET and his son, Cretin.
 

darkbeaver

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Identifying the Beast as Jesus him/it/herself is novel, but I maintain that it,s me. It,s always been me or you or every living human, and it's never been hidden from us, every phillosophy or method has identified the self as the beast and no other.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.:smile:
 

look3467

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That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically-->>>Dexter

How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
He had to subject us with those qualities into an in-perfect world of the flesh in order that those qualities may be exercised as a matter of choice.
Given a set of standards which are inherent in all souls by which all souls have for self governing are what you have described as having the same qualities of that master quote: "That's the core of my ethics, simple humanism, and what I understand to be the heart of Jesus' message. and "...this is all irrelevant, this life is all there is, so make the best you can of it. Love and care for each other, be kind to each other, try to make a positive difference, leave the world a better place than you found it"...
The bible speaks of just that view :
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves.

Which means, that all souls have an inner element of God in them.

You have a right to explicitly judge God unfavorably, but to my knowledge He is greater than that, and would still find room to love you regardless.
As for Christianities view on hell, well that has always been a scare tactic of sorts in order to scare people to come to God.
When in reality, it should be the opposite; as God with open arms sees and understands our travails and will wait for us to seek Him out in and during our adversities to reach down and comfort us, much as a parent does to their children.

Part of our travail in this world is to shift through all the confusion and find the truth as best as we can, for the effort expanded will not go unnoticed.

Peace>>>AJ
 

look3467

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Identifying the Beast as Jesus him/it/herself is novel, but I maintain that it,s me. It,s always been me or you or every living human, and it's never been hidden from us, every phillosophy or method has identified the self as the beast and no other.
Lay off the other animals 3467, we are animals, flesh and blood, of the one for the one and by the one.:smile:
Yes, in a way we are our own enemy, because we can self destruct if left to this world without the help of God for the inner man in us.
Anti-Christ can be said of each one of us if we resist His love for us as been anti-Him.
Look, God made it very simple, but mankind has convoluted the whole message to it's own self interests.
If we but follow this simple message:
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Doing that, nobody can go wrong.

Peace>>>AJ
 

look3467

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My union keeps telling me that Mike Harris is the beast. I thought it was PET and his son, Cretin.

Well..............I would certainly look into that if I were you! Always question things in order so that you may be at peace in your mind about what you believe in.

Peace>>>AJ
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
This is a challenge to all believers and non believers alike, have you wisdom?
I know who it is, and I dare say if I were to reveal it in this thread I will become an outcast.
So, I will give you all a chance to tell me if I am wrong, but first, lets hear it from you all, and at some point I will reveal it.

Peace>>>AJ





Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

OK ,as you think one of the beasts creating the sufferring of Man is a person, I'll go along with your "idol worship", who is it???? ( I'm expecting you to say me, so if you want, go ahead)


Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...

I've already got him locked up....
 

look3467

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OK ,as you think one of the beasts creating the sufferring of Man is a person, I'll go along with your "idol worship", who is it???? ( I'm expecting you to say me, so if you want, go ahead)


Oh, and ple-e-e-ase don't hit me with some of that old "Away Satan" mythology...

I've already got him locked up....

Jesus is a beast of beasts, meaning that He has become sin for all of us.
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.

If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.

Peace>>>AJ
 

Dexter Sinister

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That's a rotten trick, to deliberately set up a situation he knows we'll perceive incorrectly, then cause his own son to die horribly in order to show us a way out of it, while adding parenthetically-->>>Dexter

How else could God give us the same qualities that He has and expect us to exercises them in a pure and perfect world?
If he really had given us the same qualities he has we wouldn't have perceived the situation incorrectly.
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
Jesus is a beast of beasts, meaning that He has become sin for all of us.
In order for Him to take away the sins of the world, He has to become the worlds beasts of beasts, above all the greatest if He is to exclude no one.

If you have him locked up, then I applaud you, for you must know who it is then.

Peace>>>AJ

This is an easy one, once you understand the code of the Book...

All names/things are "Angelspeak" metaphors and do not relate to a specific individual, yet individuals can be ruled by them....

666 "The Beast" = what would be called the spirit of gold, but more accurately today= GDP...

Materialism, Andy Materialism is how it manifested itself....

By the way, Andy, you have been a great spiritual guide and you deserve your place in Grace....

Sing, Andy, Sing, to your heart's content....

You'll find me here anytime you want to talk
 

look3467

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If he really had given us the same qualities he has we wouldn't have perceived the situation incorrectly.
Quote:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
That indicates that the Lord knew what He was doing by keeping the tree of life away from us until a predetermined time when that tree should be made available to us.
Now, understand that there have been billions of people who lived and died without ever so much as heard about God, much less about Jesus, that could not re enter the presence of God.
Those souls were being held temporary in a prison called hell, until that time in which Jesus was to come. When He came, and was put to death, He went to that same place where these souls were kept and visited them.
He in then broke open the bars that held them as prisoners and liberated all souls to where there is no longer a holding place.
All this is described in the bible.

Peace>>>AJ
 

Northboy

Electoral Member
The battle of Armageddon is what Jesus has to battle going to the cross. The book of Revelation is written about Jesus' travail and how He conquered the consequence of all sin in order to win salvation, not just for the righteous, but for the unrighteous still.
That the part where humanity is hung up, they can't believe that God would rescue the unrighteous as if they were righteous. Mankind's ways wouldn't have nothing to do with such a thought.

Fortunately, some are beginning to see it as well, but not so easy to see, considering that religion has dogmatically set the par for that what is thought of today.

There are bits and pieces amongst the different religions that give my view certain credibility.
I believe that a time has come were information INTERNET is bringing the world much closer together and with some very interesting Revelations along the lines of religious beliefs, and are been shown to be quite opposite of what has been the norm.

All of course is my own opinions, and they hold no weight.

Peace>>>AJ


I love your music!!!!
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Plancks Constant, PI and Picasso.

When does a sculptor or a painter know when the product of their efforts is “finished”?

They don’t!

While the anatomical accuracy of Michelangelo’s ‘David’ is astounding and precise, there continues to be some debate regarding particular almost esoteric anomalies evident in this astounding piece of art. There is a curious irregularity amid the musculature of ‘David’s’ back, and perspective affords the sculpted subject a curious bi-focal and bi-planer gaze that has been the subject of discussion among anatomists for decades. In the same way that Tom Tompson or Paul Cézanne or any other artist for that matter accepts the fact that no human perception can flawlessly and with absolute accuracy mirror the apprehension of nature or anything else in this experience of existence, artists do the best they can with what they’re given in an imperfect and constantly changing reality.

Our physics relies on acceptable limitations imposed by, or if one prefers, dictated to, our awareness of and facility with everything that exists in the realms of not only physics but all science by the unique-ness of our, human perception of “reality”. We employ constants like Planck’s and PI to express the fact that our relationship with this experience of existence is by circumstance and necessity non-absolute and vulnerable to relational dynamics. Bacteria and viral structures redefine themselves, adapt to conditions and change constantly imposing both a conundrum and often a threat to many other life forms including of course, of the human variety of life form.

While every leaf in any artist’s arboreal panorama contributes to human perception of the notion “forest”, the fact is that the discrete individual beauty of every cell and fiber of every leaf isn’t necessarily critical to an understanding of or appreciation for the beauty of the whole. Similarly, just as quantum mechanics relies on declared “constants” like Planck’s, when you visit the hardware store to purchase enough paint to give that propane tank a lasting rust-resistant coat of paint, the calculation of the area of that cylinder is by circumstance indefinite thanks in part to PI….

Now, while it’s not necessary to calculate the surface area of a cylinder or a sphere or many other objects to some precise absolute metric, a liter or a quart of paint with such-and-such ‘coverage’ will suffice and if there’s a little left over in the bottom of the can….well that’s just life!

Pity that so robust an effort is made by religion to declare an absolute morality and so many exhausting dissertations are offered by high-priests and “holy-men” implying an ‘understanding’ of the declared absolutism of the nature of “god”.

While we accept that our interrelationship with our ‘local’ space-time/reality is replete with non-absolutes and we can successfully interact with the substance of our existence to yield survival and for many, a comfortable productive and satisfying experience, the high-priests and the assorted “wise” promulgators of mystical nonsense insist that their particular vision, their particular notions of “god” and of course the “nature of god’s will” is the definitive and absolute knowledge of a species of animals that demonstrates failure after failure to find peace both within itself and among its fellows. Despite thousands of years of hymns, chants, cannibalism (in some cases), poems songs and “scriptures” attested to by these great learned-men as the ultimate wisdom available to the enlightened.

The believer “gets” something for his/her investment. What the believer “gets” is of course unique to a particular individual believer, but ranges from rationalizations that permit bigotry and murder, to popularity and wealth delivered to the “soothsayer” by adoring adherents and the ambitiously hopeful.

Swell. I can understand that “life” can be a scary kind of experience and many “need” some absolute rock some unmoving and immoveable constant reference point in the universe upon which their prejudices and bigotry can depend as their license to replicate intolerance hatred and of course moral “superiority”….

Canadian Content provides “believers” with a canvas, a platform, a vehicle, and if we grant that the believer is performing some altruistic duty to his or her “beliefs”, if absolutely nothing were amiss in the world that became disjointed or cockeyed at the hands of “belief”, despite a plethora of evidence to the contrary, while merely a supercilious waste of time and energy, for the contributor and an imposition on the surfing habits of the reader demanding one skip the syrupy pap in the effort to get to something more substantive….well no harm no foul.

But it certainly does get tired quickly.









 

look3467

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Thanks, MikeyDB

That was quite a post! I have to give it to you, very articulate and very intelligently written.
Now come I, a long shot from being close to your intelligence, but bring something sort of what you explained in this paragraph.
Quote: "The believer “gets” something for his/her investment. What the believer “gets” is of course unique to a particular individual believer, but ranges from rationalizations that permit bigotry and murder, to popularity and wealth delivered to the “soothsayer” by adoring adherents and the ambitiously hopeful."

All of the above are true as written on the one side, but on the other side there is peace of mind, contentment in hard times, strength in faith to preserver, kindness, compassion, and forgiveness for evil done.

That is what is great about the gift of choice.

Without that gift, there would be nothing of contrast to make a choice with.

And as you said, "The believer “gets” something for his/her investment"and I add, either for the good or for the evil.

My investment has been a determined effort to learn all I can about the God who deals with mankind in the many ways as there are religions.

Now if, the rest of Christianity were to see it the same way, you won't have much to contend with.

Peace>>>AJ
 

MikeyDB

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Happily my existence isn't about discovering and understanding the nature of "god".

You believe; "My investment has been a determined effort to learn all I can about the God who deals with mankind in the many ways as there are religions." If we subscribe to this idea that we have an innate predisposition to learn all I can about god....isn't there a game of some kind being played here? In the spirit of this belief, as beings created in the image of god, is it reasonable or unreasonable to consider that "god-ness" must by the logic of this interrelatinship exist within each and every individual? What would lead you to believe that your particular idea or "construct" of "god" is any more correct/valuable/accurate than anyone else's?

Not that it matters of course and I suppose you could say that it's god's contribution to the "mystery of life"....

Or

Maybe you've missed the imporance of embracing reality in favor of clinging desperately to fantasy...but in the end it's only something important to you so carry on...
 

look3467

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Happily my existence isn't about discovering and understanding the nature of "god".

You believe; "My investment has been a determined effort to learn all I can about the God who deals with mankind in the many ways as there are religions." If we subscribe to this idea that we have an innate predisposition to learn all I can about god....isn't there a game of some kind being played here? In the spirit of this belief, as beings created in the image of god, is it reasonable or unreasonable to consider that "god-ness" must by the logic of this interrelatinship exist within each and every individual? What would lead you to believe that your particular idea or "construct" of "god" is any more correct/valuable/accurate than anyone else's?

Not that it matters of course and I suppose you could say that it's god's contribution to the "mystery of life"....

Or

Maybe you've missed the imporance of embracing reality in favor of clinging desperately to fantasy...but in the end it's only something important to you so carry on...

That's an honest question. I am not saying that my Conner on belief is the correct one above all others.
What I am saying is that my belief in the way I understand it takes in the whole of mankind's beliefs and unites them into one body, whether a believer or an unbeliever, still yet one body, and that God takes that one body as payment for the redemption of all mankind.
That body of which I speak was prepared especially for that purpose and for accomplishing that which God already knew and planed from the very first human being to accomplish.
Both Adams where created for that purpose.
The first to give life to the flesh and the second to give life to our spirits.

What would lead you to believe that your particular idea or "construct" of "god" is any more correct/valuable/accurate than anyone else's?>>>

With respect to including all religious beliefs, believers and unbelievers, Yes, I believe that my understanding of God's love covers the whole gambit of people for all generations and for all time.

I believe this understanding tops them all because it excludes no one, where others do.
My understanding, no ones goes to hell as believed, but rather that a hell can be made of this earth and for many, would need rescuing.

God is an all consuming fire which burns (Purifies)not the material but the spiritual as gold is refined to it's purest form.

If we can know and understand that, then we above many can have compassion for those who don't.

Love, is God, and God is love, without it, life is absolutely of no worth.

Peace>>>AJ
 

MikeyDB

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And what does an omniponent all powerful all seeing entity have invested in "worth"?

What possible "worth" can life have, given that it was according to your personal philosophy and beliefs created by an entity that created the sin for which a death at the hands of humanity was an apriori necessity? If an entity had the capacity and means to "create" perfection..(mankind created in the image of a perfect creator god..) isn't it more likely that "life" is an amusement given to inanimate matter? Perhaps you can clarify for the interested what perfection looks like....

Not the "idea" of perfection, but give us an example of a universal absolute perfection that each living sentient being can apprehend without scrolls of dogma and tomes of rhetoric...

What "purpose" is served by generating a self-replicating biological system that is fundamentally flawed at the onset? If one must "learn" about "god" and that "learning-about-god" yields sufficient perfection to elicit the creators "forgiveness"....

Isn't the "purpose" of your beliefs and philosophy to find a rationale, a "meaning" to your existence that "fits" the construct you've voluntarily subscribed-to as your "belief"?

There is no "meaning" to life AJ, particularly when you can consider an alternative existence to that experienced by humanity (and all "life" for that matter) if in fact creation is the exercise of a perfect being....

What purpose would a perfect creator being have in creating a circumstance wherein the "flaw" of "knowledge" contaminated otherwise perfect copies of it/her/himself...

What purpose is served by "learning" all about something you have absolutely no means of "understanding"?

You believe (perhaps) that the evil of death is overcome by the sacrifice predicated on the "flaw" innate to the creation of a perfect creator being....

Isn't all this rather circular....
 

look3467

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And what does an omnipotent all powerful all seeing entity have invested in "worth"?>>>MikeyDB

You know, that is a very interesting word, worth.
There are two distinct values to worth in humanity as I see it.
There is Godly worth and personal human worth.

The Godly worth is in His creation, and He will make of it a completion of perfection.
The ability to reason, and make choices is God given with a consequence.
The consequence is that we must negotiate earth’s obstacle course with or without Him.
As we are made flesh we are separated from God and are dead to His relationship in order to give us mastery of our own lives, as if we were gods.

The second worth is our own personal worth. How much respect do we owe ourselves?
We first must be able to love ourselves before trying to love someone else.
If our lives are felt worthy, then we want to maximize it in efforts to help others.
We find worth in others worth helping, saving and loving.

Jesus was asked of which one was the greatest of commandments, and He replied: there are two: Love God as He sees our worth, and love our neighbor as we see their worth.
The first takes in the first 5 commandments and the second takes in the next five commandments.
The first five are heavenly and the second five are earthly.

What possible "worth" can life have, given that it was according to your personal philosophy and beliefs created by an entity that created the sin for which a death at the hands of humanity was an apriori necessity? If an entity had the capacity and means to "create" perfection..(mankind created in the image of a perfect creator god..) isn't it more likely that "life" is an amusement given to inanimate matter? >>>MikeyDB
If you can see worth in helping, loving, others regardless of religious beliefs, you have self worth.

Perhaps you can clarify for the interested what perfection looks like....>>>MikeyDB

Perfection is God. And we can only be perfect in Him. When we die, we leave this imperfect body and gain a perfect heavenly body, fine tuned and purified, tried in the furnace of His love.

Not the "idea" of perfection, but give us an example of a universal absolute perfection that each living sentient being can apprehend without scrolls of dogma and tomes of rhetoric...MikeyDB
First, nobody can physically attain heavenly perfection while on earth, for the flesh is corruptible.
But, our spirits can! What goes on to live is our spirits after we die.

But here is the beauty of this whole thing, in that we are given to experience hell and yet not being sacrificed to the eternal abyss without God.

The best thing one can do first as an unbeliever is to live life loving life, our neighbor.
Doing what we deem right, being honest and truthful in all things.

For the believer, is to adhere to those same terms with gratitude, for the life given to experience trials and tribulations in joy.

Unfortunately, because of the human element of worldliness, there are those who would take advantage of God goodness to further their own agendas.

What "purpose" is served by generating a self-replicating biological system that is fundamentally flawed at the onset? If one must "learn" about "god" and that "learning-about-god" yields sufficient perfection to elicit the creators "forgiveness"....MikeyDB

Intelligence is a gift to an earthly vessel. A matter of choice to be one’s own self, to exercise whatever we choose whether it be good or evil.
That is allowable but not without consequence.

To learn about God, which I believe is an instinct like thing in all of us, is there, so that we may rely on Him who created us as strength through our trials and tribulations.
Many sacrificed to gods of their own makings in order to appease some bad misfortune.
They had no idea what they were doing and are credited with salvation as you and I are by the one sacrifice of Jesus.

Isn't the "purpose" of your beliefs and philosophy to find a rationale, a "meaning" to your existence that "fits" the construct you've voluntarily subscribed-to as your "belief"? >>>MikeyDB
Yes, and that is why I questioned my beliefs as I was experiencing all the various beliefs, so that I would in my mind heart and soul, be correct as I could in understanding my creator.
You pretty much read allot of my posts and you have witnessed that I don’t fit the typical Christian standards?
It is because I believe I have found the correct understanding which I believe includes every soul that ever lived into one body, and loved by the creator.

There is no "meaning" to life AJ, particularly when you can consider an alternative existence to that experienced by humanity (and all "life" for that matter) if in fact creation is the exercise of a perfect being....MikeyDB
Life is not in trying to be perfect, because we never could! But life is in experiencing imperfection so that we may learn to understand the perfect, which is God only.

What purpose would a perfect creator being have in creating a circumstance wherein the "flaw" of "knowledge" contaminated otherwise perfect copies of it/her/himself...MikeyDB

To begin with, the story of Adam’s fall is attributed to Adams fault, but I see it as God’s fault. He is the one who gave us the ability to gain intelligence, so He is responsible for what you consider a flaw.
But instead it was an intended design and no fault of humanity.
But that did not free us from our own misdeeds, for we are solely accountable yet while we are alive.

What purpose is served by "learning" all about something you have absolutely no means of "understanding"? >>>MikeyDB

But there is means of understanding.
First it comes from hearing the good news, then we go on to learn more about it.
Allot of folk have no time or patience to hear about God while things are going good, but many either through a devastating injury, or closeness to death, suddenly, as though instinctively, call out to God.
And God never turns anybody away, ever!

You believe (perhaps) that the evil of death is overcome by the sacrifice predicated on the "flaw" innate to the creation of a perfect creator being....MikeyDB

Two deaths are within all of us. First: the death of the physical then of the spirit.

The latter part is what was taken care for us, but the first, we must all taste of.


Isn't all this rather circular....MikeyDB

I believe that there is one existence of a physical life, once and no more.
Once we’ve existed, never again will we taste of death.

If a believer can not love and unbeliever for it souls worth, then that believer’s belief is in error.

Peace>>>AJ