2SLGBTQQIA+

Serryah

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 3, 2008
10,845
2,729
113
New Brunswick
6.3.2 seems clear enough. For record keeping (report cards, etc) to change the name for someone under 16 requires parental consent. They require student consent to ask for parental consent. Failing to get that, no official name change but they indicate they would try to use the preferred name in the learning environment (teacher calling out preferred name in class).

This seems like a fair policy. Not sure what the hoopla is.

The hoopla is, this is the 'old' policy, from the looks of it.

Department of Education and Early Childhood Development
Policy 713 Page 5 of 6

"6.3 Self-identification

6.3.1 School personnel will consult with a transgender or non-binary student to
determine their preferred first name and pronoun(s). The preferred first name and
pronoun(s) will be used consistently in ways that the student has requested.

6.3.2 Transgender or non-binary students under the age of 16 will require parental
consent in order for their preferred first name to be officially used for record-
keeping purposes and daily management (EECD, school district, and school
software applications, report cards, class lists, etc.).

Before contacting a parent, the principal must have the informed consent from the
student to discuss their preferred name with the parent. If it is not possible to
obtain parental consent for the use of the preferred first name, a plan will be put
in place to support the student in managing the use of the preferred name in the
learning environment.."


The policy now states.


"Self-identification


Section 6.3.1 and 6.3.2 will read as follows:


(6.3.1) School personnel will consult with a transgender or non-binary student who is 16 and over to determine their preferred first name and pronoun(s). The preferred first name and pronoun(s) will be used consistently in ways that the student has requested.


(6.3.2) Transgender or non-binary students under the age of 16 will require parental consent in order for their preferred first name to be officially used for recordkeeping purposes and daily management (EECD, school district, and school software applications, report cards, class lists, etc.). If it is not possible to obtain consent to talk to the parent, the student will be directed to the appropriate professional (i.e. school social worker, school psychologist) to work with them in the development of a plan to speak with their parents if and when they are ready to do so. If it is not in the best interest of the child or could cause harm to the student (physical or mental threat), the student will be directed to the appropriate school professional for support."


The problem is, it's left teachers/staff not sure what to do; do they use the name/pronouns a student wants, or don't they? Official stuff hasn't changed, it's just the 'everyday' that was affected and that's the issue.

Oh, and again, social workers/psychologists are non-existent and have been since he took office, despite his promising to hire more.
 
Last edited:

Taxslave2

Senate Member
Aug 13, 2022
5,029
2,833
113
U.S. Supreme Court rules for designer who doesn’t want to work with gay couples
Lorie Smith's opponents warned that a win for her would allow a range of businesses to discriminate

Author of the article:Associated Press
Associated Press
Jessica Gresko
Published Jun 30, 2023 • Last updated 2 days ago • 5 minute read

WASHINGTON — In a defeat for gay rights, the Supreme Court’s conservative majority ruled on Friday that a Christian graphic artist who wants to design wedding websites can refuse to work with same-sex couples. One of the court’s liberal justices wrote in a dissent that the decision’s effect is to “mark gays and lesbians for second-class status” and that the decision opens the door to other discrimination.


The court ruled 6-3 for designer Lorie Smith, saying that she can refuse to design websites for same-sex weddings despite a Colorado law that bars discrimination based on sexual orientation, race, gender and other characteristics. The court said forcing her to create the websites would violate her free speech rights under the Constitution’s First Amendment.


The decision suggests that artists, photographers, videographers and writers are among those who can refuse to offer what the court called expressive services if doing so would run contrary to their beliefs. But that’s different from other businesses not engaged in speech and therefore not covered by the First Amendment, such as restaurants and hotels.


Justice Neil Gorsuch wrote for the court’s six conservative justices that the First Amendment “envisions the United States as a rich and complex place where all persons are free to think and speak as they wish, not as the government demands.” Gorsuch said that the court has long held that “the opportunity to think for ourselves and to express those thoughts freely is among our most cherished liberties and part of what keeps our Republic strong.”

The decision is a win for religious rights and one in a series of cases in recent years in which the justices have sided with religious plaintiffs. Last year, for example, the court ruled along ideological lines for a football coach who prayed on the field at his public high school after games. And on Thursday the court in a unanimous decision used the case of a Christian mail carrier who did not want to deliver Amazon packages on Sundays to solidify protections for workers who ask for religious accommodations.


The decision is also a retreat on gay rights for the court. For nearly three decades, the court has expanded the rights of LGBTQ people, most notably giving same-sex couples the right to marry in 2015 and announcing five years later in a decision written by Gorsuch that a landmark civil rights law also protects gay, lesbian and transgender people from employment discrimination.

In the latest decision, however, Gorsuch said that a ruling against Smith would allow the government “to force all manner of artists, speechwriters, and others whose services involve speech to speak what they do not believe on pain of penalty.” For example, a gay website designer could be forced to design websites for an organization that advocates against same-sex marriage, he wrote. “Countless other creative professionals, too, could be forced to choose between remaining silent, producing speech that violates their beliefs, or speaking their minds and incurring sanctions for doing so.”


The court’s dissenting liberal justices led by Justice Sonia Sotomayor warned that the decision will allow a range of businesses to discriminate.

“Today, the Court, for the first time in its history, grants a business open to the public a constitutional right to refuse to serve members of a protected class,” Sotomayor wrote in a dissent joined by Justice Elena Kagan and Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson.

Sotomayor, who read a summary of her dissent in court to underscore her disagreement, said that the decision’s logic “cannot be limited to discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.” A website designer could refuse to create a wedding website for an interracial couple, a stationer could refuse to sell a birth announcement for a disabled couple, and a large retail store could limit its portrait services to “traditional” families, she wrote.


President Joe Biden said in a statement that the ruling was “disappointing,” adding that it “weakens long-standing laws that protect all Americans against discrimination in public accommodations—including people of colour, people with disabilities, people of faith, and women.”

Sotomayor referenced the court’s history with the issue of gay rights in her dissent, writing: “The LGBT rights movement has made historic strides, and I am proud of the role this Court has recently played in that history. Today, however, we are taking steps backward.”

“Today is a sad day in American constitutional law and in the lives of LGBT people. … the immediate, symbolic effect of the decision is to mark gays and lesbians for second-class status,” she wrote at another point.


Even as it has expanded gay rights, however, the court has been careful to say those with differing religious views needed to be respected. The belief that marriage can only be between one man and one woman is an idea that “long has been held—and continues to be held—in good faith by reasonable and sincere people here and throughout the world,” Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in the court’s gay marriage decision.

The court returned to that idea five years ago when it was confronted with the case of a Christian baker who objected to designing a cake for a same-sex wedding. The court issued a limited ruling in favour of the baker, Jack Phillips, saying there had been impermissible hostility toward his religious views in the consideration of his case. Phillips’ lawyer, Kristen Waggoner, of the Alliance Defending Freedom, also brought the most recent case to the court. On Friday, she said the Supreme Court was right to reaffirm that the government cannot compel people to say things they do not believe.


“Disagreement isn’t discrimination, and the government can’t mislabel speech as discrimination to censor it,” she said in a statement.

Smith, who owns a Colorado design business called 303 Creative, does not currently create wedding websites. She has said that she wants to but that her Christian faith would prevent her from creating websites celebrating same-sex marriages. And that’s where she ran into conflict with state law.

Colorado, like most other states, has a law forbidding businesses open to the public from discriminating against customers. And about half of the states have laws explicitly prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity. Colorado said that under its so-called public accommodations law, if Smith offers wedding websites to the public, she must provide them to all customers, regardless of sexual orientation. Businesses that violate the law can be fined, among other things. Smith argued that applying the law to her violates her First Amendment rights, and the Supreme Court agreed.

The case is 303 Creative LLC v. Elenis, 21-476.
I recall a case from a number of years ago with a bakery that wouldn't make a cake for someone. As I recall he won, but it was worded rather odd.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
The hoopla is, this is the 'old' policy, from the looks of it.

Department of Education and Early Childhood Development
Policy 713 Page 5 of 6

"6.3 Self-identification

6.3.1 School personnel will consult with a transgender or non-binary student to
determine their preferred first name and pronoun(s). The preferred first name and
pronoun(s) will be used consistently in ways that the student has requested.

6.3.2 Transgender or non-binary students under the age of 16 will require parental
consent in order for their preferred first name to be officially used for record-
keeping purposes and daily management (EECD, school district, and school
software applications, report cards, class lists, etc.).

Before contacting a parent, the principal must have the informed consent from the
student to discuss their preferred name with the parent. If it is not possible to
obtain parental consent for the use of the preferred first name, a plan will be put
in place to support the student in managing the use of the preferred name in the
learning environment.."


The policy now states.


"Self-identification


Section 6.3.1 and 6.3.2 will read as follows:


(6.3.1) School personnel will consult with a transgender or non-binary student who is 16 and over to determine their preferred first name and pronoun(s). The preferred first name and pronoun(s) will be used consistently in ways that the student has requested.


(6.3.2) Transgender or non-binary students under the age of 16 will require parental consent in order for their preferred first name to be officially used for recordkeeping purposes and daily management (EECD, school district, and school software applications, report cards, class lists, etc.). If it is not possible to obtain consent to talk to the parent, the student will be directed to the appropriate professional (i.e. school social worker, school psychologist) to work with them in the development of a plan to speak with their parents if and when they are ready to do so. If it is not in the best interest of the child or could cause harm to the student (physical or mental threat), the student will be directed to the appropriate school professional for support."


The problem is, it's left teachers/staff not sure what to do; do they use the name/pronouns a student wants, or don't they? Official stuff hasn't changed, it's just the 'everyday' that was affected and that's the issue.

Oh, and again, social workers/psychologists are non-existent and have been since he took office, despite his promising to hire more.
That again isn't a bad policy (though not sure why make the change from original) assuming the required supports for the policy are in place -- social workers and school psychologists specifically). The real issue then is the governments not providing those supports which leaves a gap in the policy. And if they haven't provided the supports, why change the policy. They should have put the supports in place then changed the policy.

But they are following the pattern of every government ever elected in any province or federally, Making up shit as they go along without any real road map.
 

Serryah

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 3, 2008
10,845
2,729
113
New Brunswick
That again isn't a bad policy (though not sure why make the change from original) assuming the required supports for the policy are in place -- social workers and school psychologists specifically). The real issue then is the governments not providing those supports which leaves a gap in the policy. And if they haven't provided the supports, why change the policy. They should have put the supports in place then changed the policy.

But they are following the pattern of every government ever elected in any province or federally, Making up shit as they go along without any real road map.

People didn't have issue with the policy as it was. It's mostly now the confusion over WTF to do and that it seems like - from what Higgs has said - that parents have to told of changes in name/pronouns regardless of what the kids want.

So yeah, it's the confusion that's the issue. And the lack of the supports.

And the difference is?

One is about a business open to the public and the person using religious bias to exempt people.

The other is safety and protection of kids in lieu of a bad family situation where they can't come out to parents.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
One is about a business open to the public and the person using religious bias to exempt people.

The other is safety and protection of kids in lieu of a bad family situation where they can't come out to parents.
I think he was talking about the web designer for the gay couple and the cake person not the NB thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Serryah

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 3, 2008
10,845
2,729
113
New Brunswick
I think he was talking about the web designer for the gay couple and the cake person not the NB thing.

Well, that was a totally made up case that never happened at all so there's no leg to stand on even moreso if that's the case.


I mean, the guy isn't even GAY FFS.
 

55Mercury

rigid member
May 31, 2007
4,388
1,065
113
Well, that was a totally made up case that never happened at all so there's no leg to stand on even moreso if that's the case.


I mean, the guy isn't even GAY FFS.
so she lied about the whole situation.

I suppose at some point that will be grounds to rule the ruling baseless and then be struck down.

meantime bitchface should be charged with supreme perjury and given some cell time to think about it, as well as making reparations to the taxpayer for wasting their time and money.

geez
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Satelitte Radio Addict
May 28, 2007
15,248
2,879
113
Toronto, ON
so she lied about the whole situation.

I suppose at some point that will be grounds to rule the ruling baseless and then be struck down.

meantime bitchface should be charged with supreme perjury and given some cell time to think about it, as well as making reparations to the taxpayer for wasting their time and money.

geez
Her claim is she never checked the guys name that was given to her. Not sure there is enough evidence to actually accuse her of making it up.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,201
14,247
113
Low Earth Orbit
Well, that was a totally made up case that never happened at all so there's no leg to stand on even moreso if that's the case.


I mean, the guy isn't even GAY FFS.
Here is a newsflash for you. In order for your rights to exist, you need to STFU then uphold and respect everyone else's rights.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Taxslave2

Serryah

Hall of Fame Member
Dec 3, 2008
10,845
2,729
113
New Brunswick
Her claim is she never checked the guys name that was given to her. Not sure there is enough evidence to actually accuse her of making it up.
so she lied about the whole situation.

I suppose at some point that will be grounds to rule the ruling baseless and then be struck down.

meantime bitchface should be charged with supreme perjury and given some cell time to think about it, as well as making reparations to the taxpayer for wasting their time and money.

geez


If it wasn't her, it was her lawyers that should have checked during discovery.

But as stated - you can't sue the government for "hypotheticals".

I'm wondering if Colorado will do something more 'bout it.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,201
14,247
113
Low Earth Orbit

Taxslave2

Senate Member
Aug 13, 2022
5,029
2,833
113
People didn't have issue with the policy as it was. It's mostly now the confusion over WTF to do and that it seems like - from what Higgs has said - that parents have to told of changes in name/pronouns regardless of what the kids want.

So yeah, it's the confusion that's the issue. And the lack of the supports.



One is about a business open to the public and the person using religious bias to exempt people.

The other is safety and protection of kids in lieu of a bad family situation where they can't come out to parents.
So you didn't read the article. Figures.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Serryah

Dixie Cup

Senate Member
Sep 16, 2006
6,283
4,000
113
Edmonton
6.3.2 seems clear enough. For record keeping (report cards, etc) to change the name for someone under 16 requires parental consent. They require student consent to ask for parental consent. Failing to get that, no official name change but they indicate they would try to use the preferred name in the learning environment (teacher calling out preferred name in class).

This seems like a fair policy. Not sure what the hoopla is.
The whole thing sucks & should NEVER have become an issue. These kids need to decide when they're capable & mature enough to decide for themselves AFTER UNDERSTANDING the consequences of their choice. If they truly understand that, then go for it! I just HATE that they're PUSHING this onto our kids who are naïve about this whole issue.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
117,201
14,247
113
Low Earth Orbit
The whole thing sucks & should NEVER have become an issue. These kids need to decide when they're capable & mature enough to decide for themselves AFTER UNDERSTANDING the consequences of their choice. If they truly understand that, then go for it! I just HATE that they're PUSHING this onto our kids who are naïve about this whole issue.
That's why Sask asks for a full psych review before anything.
 
  • Love
Reactions: Dixie Cup