There is the evidence.

[Dexter Sinister]

The eye is the miracle in fact, and none can do better; your suggestions are very wrong.

False on both counts. There's nothing miraculous about it, eyes have evolved at least several dozen times in the history of life, and some of them are much better than human eyes. Quoting Michael Shermer: "It is built upside down and backwards, requiring photons of light to travel through the cornea, lens, aqueous fluid, blood vessels, ganglion cells, amacrine cells, horizontal cells and bipolar cells before they reach the light sensitive rods and cones that transduce the light signal into neural impulses--which are then sent to the visual cortex at the back of the brain for processing into meaningful patterns... The eye shows the pathways of evolutionary history, not of intelligent design." Squids and cephalopods have better eyes, the rods and cones are at the front of the retina instead of the back behind all those layers of other things. What are we to make of that, that god likes squids and cephalopods better?

I could go on more or less indefinitely about the design flaws of the human body--too many teeth in too small a space, for instance, which can cause fatal septicemia, and all the cognitive and perceptual errors we're prone to--but as Tecumsehsbones pointed out elsewhere, you don't do evidence. Or logic, by all appearances, and I'm pretty sure you don't accept evolution as a fact of life either. But you could do a quick search for something like "design flaws in the human body" and immediately get a couple of pages of top ten lists.

You may have the right to say: life has not been discovered yet, but you have no right to say: there can never be life on the planets or their moons.

You have a strange idea of what rights are. I have the right to say pretty much anything I want, except for obvious limitations on free speech like falsely shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre or spreading the kind of anti-Semitic hatred you do, but free speech probably isn't a right where you live. I made no such claim as that there can never be life on the planets or their moons, in fact there HAS been life on our moon a few times as you must know, unless you don't believe that history either, but I'm within my rights to say it if I want to. All I've claimed is that human life cannot exist anywhere except on Earth without huge investments in technology, like all the stuff the Apollo astronauts needed to stay alive on their trips to the moon, that'll keep us alive in the hostile environments of other bodies in the solar system.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I read Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern series and in one of the books when the Geneticists are first discussing dragons, they're talking about the human body and she makes a comment about how poorly designed it is, and points out this exact thought.

Even fictional scientists know humans aren't exactly the best designed species.

I've read it too, years ago, that might be where that thought came from, though its obvious enough that anyone could have thought of it independently. I most recently heard it expressed by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I've read it too, years ago, that might be where that thought came from, though its obvious enough that anyone could have thought of it independently. I most recently heard it expressed by Neil deGrasse Tyson.

The appendix alone makes it clear. Plus the fact that among mammals, only humans can choke on water, and a number of other features that other species do better.

 

[Torch light]

You have a strange idea of what rights are. I have the right to say pretty much anything I want, except for obvious limitations on free speech like falsely shouting "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre or spreading the kind of anti-Semitic hatred you do, but free speech probably isn't a right where you live. I made no such claim as that there can never be life on the planets or their moons, in fact there HAS been life on our moon a few times as you must know, unless you don't believe that history either, but I'm within my rights to say it if I want to. All I've claimed is that human life cannot exist anywhere except on Earth without huge investments in technology, like all the stuff the Apollo astronauts needed to stay alive on their trips to the moon, that'll keep us alive in the hostile environments of other bodies in the solar system.

I mean you have right and no right according to truth and logic.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I mean you have right and no right according to truth and logic.

Logic dictates that the person making the statement must provide evidence.

You say there's some superbeing who created and controls every aspect of the universe.

I say there is a large, red-and-black dragon right outside your window.

Without evidence, both statements have equal truth value.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

I mean you have right and no right according to truth and logic.

I think you mean I have the right to say only what you think is true and logical. That's not going to fly either.

 

[Torch light]

False on both counts. There's nothing miraculous about it, eyes have evolved at least several dozen times in the history of life, and some of them are much better than human eyes. Quoting Michael Shermer: "It is b..uilt upside down and backwards, requiring photons of light to travel through the cornea, lens, aqueous fluid, blood vessels, ganglion cells, amacrine cells, horizontal cells and bipolar cells before they reach the light sensitive rods and cones that transduce the light signal into neural impulses--which are then sent to the visual cortex at the back of the brain for processing into meaningful patterns...

I surprise from you and your Shermer: instead of admiring the perfect creation; he objects with his ignorance to the complex structure: do you want man to see directly: how is that for I cannot imagine in fact the thinking of these atheists.. instead of thanking God for the precious eye, he says such words of ingratitude?

The eye shows the pathways of evolutionary history, not of intelligent design."

These are only the delusions of atheists who deny the creation by any means: while they did not witness the creation of every creature.

Squids and cephalopods have better eyes, the rods and cones are at the front of the retina instead of the back behind all those layers of other things. What are we to make of that, that god likes squids and cephalopods better?

too many teeth in too small a space, for instance, which can cause fatal septicemia

What's this? Unless you said you are educated, I would not believe it comes from a learned man:
Ask the dentist, and he will tell you about the marvels of teeth and their types to be used in dealing with various kinds of food that man eats.
And you said Septicemia: if one tooth or 32 teeth, or if no tooth, septicemia might occur.
Moreover, the disease: any disease is the malfunction of that organ, which may happen in every organ and in every organism ... and tells about the marvels of the normal physiology of the organs, that is exposed when that organ is diseased.

, and all the cognitive and perceptual errors we're prone to--but as Tecumsehsbones pointed out elsewhere, you don't do evidence. Or logic, by all appearances, and I'm pretty sure you don't accept evolution as a fact of life either.

God created man as a creature, not as a god. God is only One: the Creator.
God created every created being to suit its environment: we cannot see in darkness, but many beasts can see in darkness and go by night to find their provision, like the owl also, and the bat.
So all these creatures have been created in the most perfect way to suit their environment and ways of living.

But you could do a quick search for something like "design flaws in the human body" and immediately get a couple of pages of top ten lists.

Why should I search this, and should you not search the marvels of God's creation: perfect creation?
Quran 31: 11, which means:
(Such is God's creation; show me then, [O associaters], what others [to which you pray], apart from Him, have created.
But actually, the wrong-doers are in error [away from the truth], so obvious [to every intelligent and thinking one.])

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/31.htm#a31_11

 

[Dexter Sinister]

...instead of thanking God for the precious eye, he says such words of ingratitude?

It's ingratitude to describe something accurately? Somehow that doesn't surprise me coming from you.

And you said Septicemia

Yes, There's not enough room in most people's mouths for the third molars most of us have, they often erupt badly and become impacted and have to be removed or they can lead to a fatal septicemia. And just for your edification, I have spoken to my dentist about these matters, several of them in fact, and they all agree it's a poor piece of design, but they're happy about it because it keeps them in business. People used to die from bad teeth. A perfect creation wouldn't require dentists, but god apparently made human teeth pretty weak and also made the bacteria that can destroy them. What could he have been thinking?

Why should I search this, and should you not search the marvels of God's creation: perfect creation?

You should search it because you might learn something interesting and useful that the people who wrote the Quran didn't know. And I have searched what you call the marvels of god's creation, I've spent most of my professional life doing some version of that in various ways, that's science's main business. It's very far from perfect.

 

[Torch light]

Atheists, you are ignorant about your outcome in the Hereafter:

Atheist, you are so foolish in fact; how dare you speak about God's marvels in the creation of the wonderful structure: the eye in this way?

In fact, man should be grateful to God Most Gracious, for that He formed for him the eye-sight, the hearing and the heart of his spirit or soul.
Quran 23: 78, which means:
(It is [God] Who has formed for you[r souls] the hearing, the sight and [spiritual] hearts: [but] small number of you who thank [God.])

The appendix alone makes it clear. Plus the fact that among mammals, only humans can choke on water, and a number of other features that other species do better.

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/23.htm#a23_78

Aren't you afraid that God might remove your sight and render you blind? You will know your Lord then.. I seek refuge in God from every evil!

Don't you know that every layer of the eye has its diseases which are the malfunction of that layer in disease: this demonstrates its wonderful physiology in health and we see things around us rapidly like the speed of light!?
God said in the Quran 54: 50, which means:
(And Our commandment [to anything We want to destroy] is but one [word], as the twinkle of an eye [in its speed.])

Aren't you afraid that God may cripple you, and you will know the marvels of the knee joint?

Therefore, every wise man should thank God for His bounties and do not cling to the words of atheists who are misguided, and anyone who follows them will be misguided and they will lead him to the punishment of the Blaze in Hell.

Moreover, what provokes you to be against God your Generous Lord who created you in perfect creation: with symmetrical organs like equal hands and equal legs? And you disbelieve and you are not aware that there are angels who record your words and your acts, and you will be requited of all that.
Quran 82: 6-8, which mean:
(6. [The angels will then say to the disbeliever:] "O man! What has made you careless concerning your Bountiful Lord"
7. "The One Who created you [from scanty seminal fluid], then made you [a man: hearing and seeing], then proportioned you[r organs] symmetrically?"
8. "And He composed you into whatever form [of the four human race] He constituted."
9. Nay! But in fact, you [disbelievers] give the lie to the ‘Judgment and Requital’,
10. Yet, there are [some] recording [angels] in charge of you.
11. [That are] honorable [before God], and writers [of your deeds and words.]
12. They are aware of all that you do.)

http://quran-ayat.com/pret/82.htm#a82_6

 

[Torch light]

The appendix alone makes it clear. Plus the fact that among mammals, only humans can choke on water, and a number of other features that other species do better.

The appendix is not appendix in fact; it is full of lymphatic tissue and a source of hormones. This is what we know till now; we don't know what else of its benefits maybe, therefore it is not useless as do atheists imagine.
So what if man chokes with water; this is his creation mode; he also dies if he is strangled without air for 3 minutes.

 

[Torch light]

You should search it because you might learn something interesting and useful that the people who wrote the Quran didn't know. And I have searched what you call the marvels of god's creation, I've spent most of my professional life doing some version of that in various ways, that's science's main business. It's very far from perfect.

I quit myself completely from your words and your way of atheism.

 

[Torch light]

To me, I say: Glory to God! Praise be to God! Thanks to God my Provider and my Master; of Him, I hope for every blessing and I fear His punishment for my sins unless, with His forgiveness and mercy, He saves me.

I say to every wise man: The disbeliever is hopeless and misguided; so beware of devils like Dawkins and others like him: they are losers and if one follows them they will lead him to Hell in the Hereafter.

Quran 22, 3-4, which mean:
(3. Among people is he who disputes about God without knowledge, and follows every corrupt impostor.
4. It is decreed that whoever ‘follows and likes’ that [devilish impostor], he will misguide him [away from the truth] and will lead him to the torment of the Blaze [: in Hell.])
quran-ayat.com/pret/22.htm#a22_3

 

[Serryah]

I quit myself completely from your words and your way of atheism.

So you quit from 'atheism'; most people on this board are that, or not of your faith.

So why do you stay?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

I quit myself completely from your words and your way of atheism.

Adios.

 

[55Mercury]

Torchy reminds me of the black knight in that monty python 'none shall pass' scene, even though he believes he's the rabbit in the killer-bunny scene.

*makes more popcorn*

:?)

 

[Torch light]

So you quit from 'atheism'; most people on this board are that, or not of your faith.

So why do you stay?

I stay for the few that are not of the 'most'.

 

[Serryah]

I stay for the few that are not of the 'most'.

And who are they, then, Torchy?

Me? TB?

It's not Dex nor Jin, nor likely anyone else...

So who then?

I said "most" because if they're not atheist, as you said, they are Christian, which means they won't be of your faith anyway.

"Most people on this board are that, OR not of your faith."

Again, you are cherry picking parts you like, ignoring parts you don't. That's why you have no credibility at all even as a representative of Islam.

So...

 

[Torch light]

The Mental Capability:
It is narrated that Prophet Mohammed said: "Think and contemplate God's work and creation, but do not think about the essence of God."

That is because they cannot comprehend His essence whatever they think and squeeze their brains because they are created, and the created cannot comprehend the Creator.

The child has a limited mental capability, which is less than the adult, and the young man has less mental capability than the mature man, say in his forties: i.e. the mental capability of a child is less than his capability when becomes an adult and the adult is less than when he becomes a 40 years old man.
So man has a limited mental capability or wit.

Moreover, man has limited knowledge, and whatever he studies and learns, he will never reach infinite knowledge and cannot know everything.
Therefore, one cannot imagine the starting of time nor the end of the lasting time..
This is about God's creation: man cannot comprehend all about it, and the atheist rushes to say there is a defect! Glory be to God the Best Creator: Can anyone
create better than His creation? Never.
So an ignorant man said when he saw the airplane flying: This is marvelous more than the camel! he pointed to His saying - be glorified - in the Quran 88: 17, which means: (Do they not consider how the camel is [wisely] created!?) a
................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

a They move in the desert, grazing on the thorn instead of the grass, and can forbear being without water for ten days in summer and for forty days in winter. And they carry loads and walk on the sand.

quran-ayat.com/pret/88.htm#a88_17

Moreover, God inspired and taught man how to manufacture the ship and the airplane. Had He not inspired man to do this, man could have not invented the airplane.
If the disbeliever claims man can do anything as he likes and whenever he wants, let him know that man can never create one cell or one hair of the camel.

Quran 43: 12, which means:
(And Who created all the pairs, and appointed for you [: people] ships and cattle [: camels] whereupon you ride.)

quran-ayat.com/pret/43.htm#a43_12

 

[Torch light]

So who then?

This is the net... for everyone to read.

 

[Serryah]

This is the net... for everyone to read.

Sure, but in THIS place, it's limited to a handful who are here constantly. No one already a member is here to look at what you're posting, or leaving comments.

So you're not posting for them.

Again, who are you posting for?

Or is this one of your "Everyone who reads anything of the Quran must now follow the Quran or they will go to Hell" things? Liked others in Christianity who force their religion on others?

My opinion is that you're also only here because the higher ups can't be arsed to ban you, or they love poking/picking on the "Towel head".

Cause they for damn sure aren't of your faith.

So is this self-torture then?

Are you trying to be like those long ago priests who forced conversion on anyone not Christian?

What's the real reason you stick around?