Never argue with a religious fanatic or an atheist...
they are both stuck in a rut
they are both stuck in a rut
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The Chosen People of God!?
- Thread starter Torch light
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[Some idolaters said to some believers: "Should there be any life following death and should there be any reward for the good–doer, then we too will be rewarded; because we honor the guest, feed the hungry and dress the naked"; therefore this aya in the Quran 45: 21-22 was revealed, which mean:]
(21. [Do the idolaters and associaters think that they will be rewarded for their deeds?]
Or do those, who slam [the honor of people with their tongues] and work evil, expect that we will make them [prosper in the Next Life] as [will We give to] those who believe and do righteous deeds:
equal their life [in the World] and their afterlife [following death: so that We shall give them in the afterlife as have We given to them in the life of the World]?
[Nope, it will never be as do they say]; so how wrong they judge [for themselves!]
22. And God created the heavens and the earth [: the planets including the earth] with the true [promise: their destruction on Doomsday],
and that every soul may be rewarded [following death] for what [good or evil] it earned [in the life of the World];
and they will not be wronged [by increasing their punishment or decreasing their reward.])
The detailed explanation by Mohammed-Ali Hassan Al-Hilly
All of that is your faith, Torch, that is not the faith of all.
It's interesting that you bring in 'logical proofs' into your argument, because a lot of what you said, can be made to have 'logical proofs' with any other religion as well.
Which is why they've happened.
Your religion, YOUR faith, is yours.
That does not mean it is right for anyone else.
And your belief that God does not do certain things is fine.
Others believe other ways.
That doesn't make them wrong, or right.
Just means their faith is not yours.
I believe in "God" - call it God, call it Zeus, call it the Goddess, the Creator - it doesn't matter to me, I do believe in "God". I believe that God is not limited as you, or Christians, or those in the Jewish faith, limit it. I believe that because for me to put a limit on God, is to start dictating what God can and cannot do.
If God wants spirits, Angels, Demons or what have you to exist, that is for God to decide, not me.
If God doesn't want them to exist, that's also for God to decide.
And for me 'logical proof' sometimes does show that there ARE things - call them angels, spirits, Jinn, what have you - that can and do work with God, and for God, sometimes.
That is part of my faith.
It is no better, nor is it no worse, than yours.
It is faith. Belief.
And beyond yourself, you cannot control faith/belief, no matter how hard you, or religious leaders, try.
Based on Jewish biblical tradition and Ethiopian legend via Kebra Nagast, Rastas believe that Israel's King Solomon, together with Ethiopian Queen of Sheba, conceived a child which began the Solomonic line of kings in Ethiopia, rendering the Ethiopian people as the true children of Israel, and thereby chosen. Reinforcement of this belief occurred when Beta Israel, Ethiopia's ancient Israelite First Temple community, were rescued from Sudanese famine and brought to Israel during Operation Moses in 1985.
The traditional religion of the Maasai peoplefrom East Africa maintains that the Supreme God Ngai has chosen them to herd all cattle in the world, and this belief has been used to justify stealing from other tribes.
Sun Myung Moon taught that Korea is the chosen nation, selected to serve a divine mission and was "chosen by God to be the birthplace of the leading figure of the age and was the birthplace of "Heavenly Tradition", ushering in God's kingdom.
In Judaism, "chosenness" is the belief that the Jews, via descent from the ancient Israelites, are the chosen people, i.e. selected to be in a covenant with God. The idea of the Israelites being chosen by God is found most directly in the Book of Deuteronomy as the verb baḥar(בָּחַ֣ר (Hebrew)), and is alluded to elsewhere in the Hebrew Bible using other terms such as "holy people". Much is written about these topics in rabbinic literature. The three largest Jewish denominations—Orthodox Judaism, Conservative Judaism and Reform Judaism—maintain the belief that the Jews have been chosen by God for a purpose. Sometimes this choice is seen as charging the Jewish people with a specific mission—to be a light unto the nations, and to exemplify the covenant with God as described in the Torah.
This view does not preclude a belief that Godhas a relationship with other peoples—rather, Judaism held that God had entered into a covenant with all humankind, and that Jews and non-Jews alike have a relationship with God.
If gawd is real, bring her by my place for a cup of tea to prove it. Otherwise you are just blowing smoke.
Freewill doesn't get anymore benevolent.
If it's good it's nature that just happens and not God but if there is bad it's because God doesn't care?
No, if there was a god bad things wouldn't happen. At least not with a benevolent god.
Maybe a God had a different perspective & opinion as to what’s good or bad with respect to one species on on planet in the big scheme of things. We might be more or less irrelevant to a God, who sure as shit doesn’t need Islam to enforce their narrow narrative of their interpretation of Gods will upon the rest of us…..
No god should be choosing one group of people over another. That is racism, discrimination, and a pile of bullshit. I have asked many Christians as to how they know that there is a god? All I ever get from them is "well, I just know that there is a god". Oh, okay. LOL.
Looks like he's having trouble making up his mind.
Weather is natural as is disease. Mother Nature is a psychopath trying to kill you 24-7-365.
War and greed is Freewill.
What is stopping you from growing a few bushels of grain to help feed the planet through donation?
You have never seen my fields. If you were very lucky you might get a bushel off the entire 6 acres.
A bushel goes a long way. It's 55lbs of food. Lets do some math. According to statistics and averages, if every atheist (1.9M) in Canada grew a bushel of wheat it ends up like so: 1,900,000 x55 = 104,000,000lbs of wheat. 104,000,000 ÷ 365 = 284,931.5 people having a meal a day for a year.
Freewill
Glory be to God! Glory be to God!
I ask God's forgiveness.
God's way of dealing with disbelievers and wrong-doers:
This is called God's way of dealing, which is constant and unchangeable: When people change their belief and their conduct, God too changes His dealing with them from blessing to punishing them.
Therefore, when they start to wrong each other, and fall into the idolatry and they do not show gratitude to His blessings, God will change His blessings that He bestowed on them into ways of punishment.
This is explained in the Quran in many ayat, like:
Quran 33: 61-62, which mean:
(61. [The hypocrites and wrong-doers were] driven away with curse, wherever they were found, were overtaken [with torment] and slain [without mercy.]
62. [As such was] God's way [of dealing] with those [wrong-doers] who passed away before f; you can never find any changing in [such] God's way [of dealing. g])
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................
f It means: As such was God’s way of dealing with the past nations, by setting on the hypocrites and wrong-doers, others more than them in doing wrong, so that they took revenge on them, tortured and captured them, plundered their women and enslaved their progeny.
g It means: God’s way of dealing does not change in the present and in the future; so that as was it in the past, it is the same at present and will also be the same in the future.
In the Torah of Moses, you may find something similar to this in the Book of Leviticus, chapter 26: 14-33
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 26 - American Standard Version
Ye shall make you no idols, neither shall ye rear you up a graven image, or a pillar, neither shall ye place any figured stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am Jehovah your God. Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am Jehovah. If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my...
This about God's way of dealing with the disbelievers and wrong-dores as in the Bible, Book of Leviticus, chapter 26: 14-33:
"14 But if you do not heed me and do not keep all these commandments, 15 if you reject my statutes and loathe my decrees, refusing to obey all my commandments and breaking my covenant, 16 then I, in turn, will do this to you:
I will bring terror upon you—with consumption and fever to dim the eyes and sap the life. You will sow your seed in vain, for your enemies will consume the crop. 17 I will turn against you, and you will be beaten down before your enemies and your foes will lord it over you. You will flee though no one pursues you.
18 If even after this you do not obey me, I will increase the chastisement for your sins sevenfold, 19 to break your proud strength. I will make the sky above you as hard as iron, and your soil as hard as bronze, 20 so that your strength will be spent in vain; your land will bear no crops, and its trees no fruit.
21 If then you continue hostile, unwilling to obey me, I will multiply my blows sevenfold, as your sins deserve. 22 I will unleash wild beasts against you, to rob you of your children and wipe out your livestock, till your population dwindles away and your roads become deserted.
23 If, with all this, you still do not accept my discipline and continue hostile to me, 24 I, too, will continue to be hostile to you and I, for my part, will smite you for your sins sevenfold. 25 I will bring against you the sword, the avenger of my covenant. Though you then huddle together in your cities, I will send pestilence among you, till you are delivered to the enemy. 26 When I break your staff of bread, ten women will need but one oven for baking your bread, and they shall dole it out to you by weight; and though you eat, you shall not be satisfied.
27 If, despite all this, you disobey and continue hostile to me, 28 I will continue in my hostile rage toward you, and I myself will discipline you for your sins sevenfold, 29 till you begin to eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters. 30 I will demolish your high places, overthrow your incense stands, and cast your corpses upon the corpses of your idols. In my loathing of you, 31 I will lay waste your cities and desolate your sanctuaries, refusing your sweet-smelling offerings. 32 So devastated will I leave the land that your enemies who come to live there will stand aghast at the sight of it. 33 And you I will scatter among the nations at the point of my drawn sword, leaving your countryside desolate and your cities deserted."
www.biblegateway.com
"14 But if you do not heed me and do not keep all these commandments, 15 if you reject my statutes and loathe my decrees, refusing to obey all my commandments and breaking my covenant, 16 then I, in turn, will do this to you:
I will bring terror upon you—with consumption and fever to dim the eyes and sap the life. You will sow your seed in vain, for your enemies will consume the crop. 17 I will turn against you, and you will be beaten down before your enemies and your foes will lord it over you. You will flee though no one pursues you.
18 If even after this you do not obey me, I will increase the chastisement for your sins sevenfold, 19 to break your proud strength. I will make the sky above you as hard as iron, and your soil as hard as bronze, 20 so that your strength will be spent in vain; your land will bear no crops, and its trees no fruit.
21 If then you continue hostile, unwilling to obey me, I will multiply my blows sevenfold, as your sins deserve. 22 I will unleash wild beasts against you, to rob you of your children and wipe out your livestock, till your population dwindles away and your roads become deserted.
23 If, with all this, you still do not accept my discipline and continue hostile to me, 24 I, too, will continue to be hostile to you and I, for my part, will smite you for your sins sevenfold. 25 I will bring against you the sword, the avenger of my covenant. Though you then huddle together in your cities, I will send pestilence among you, till you are delivered to the enemy. 26 When I break your staff of bread, ten women will need but one oven for baking your bread, and they shall dole it out to you by weight; and though you eat, you shall not be satisfied.
27 If, despite all this, you disobey and continue hostile to me, 28 I will continue in my hostile rage toward you, and I myself will discipline you for your sins sevenfold, 29 till you begin to eat the flesh of your own sons and daughters. 30 I will demolish your high places, overthrow your incense stands, and cast your corpses upon the corpses of your idols. In my loathing of you, 31 I will lay waste your cities and desolate your sanctuaries, refusing your sweet-smelling offerings. 32 So devastated will I leave the land that your enemies who come to live there will stand aghast at the sight of it. 33 And you I will scatter among the nations at the point of my drawn sword, leaving your countryside desolate and your cities deserted."
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 26 - New American Bible (Revised Edition)
Chapter 26 - The Reward of Obedience. Do not make idols for yourselves. You shall not erect a carved image or a sacred stone for yourselves, nor shall you set up a carved stone for worship in your land; for I, the LORD, am your God. Keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary. I am the LORD. If...
This is in the Quran, about how God dealt with the idolaters and wrong-dores of the past nations:
Quran 53: 50-55, which mean:
50. And that He destroyed the past [tribe of] Aad [when they denied their messenger.]
51. And [the tribe of] Thamood: He spared not [when they denied their messenger.]
52. And [We destroyed] the people of Noah before; surely they were more unjust and more rebellious [than ‘Aad and Thamood.]
53. And the ‘demolished and overturned’ [cities of Lot's people] were even more at going down [into Hell.]
54. And there covered them t [the wreckage] that did cover the [city because of the earthquake.]
55. [O unbelieving man,] which is it then of the bounties of your Lord, that you deny?)
And here is the recitation of these great ayat of the Quran:
These destroyed people were before Prophet Abraham, while after him, there were too many peoples destroyed when they insisted on their blasphemy and they wronged each other: like people of Midian, and Pharaoh's people.
And this way of God's dealing keeps to the present time without changing: the examples of that are the wars, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods and epidemics.
The recent Coronavirus or Covid 19 epidemic caused one million fatalities in addition to the disease that afflicted about 50 million (this is roughly speaking and I do not remember the exact numbers.)
And a more recent example is the Ukraine war were a complete nation has been shaken vigorously: thousand died and millions fled their homes with consequences to the entire world.
Quran 53: 50-55, which mean:
50. And that He destroyed the past [tribe of] Aad [when they denied their messenger.]
51. And [the tribe of] Thamood: He spared not [when they denied their messenger.]
52. And [We destroyed] the people of Noah before; surely they were more unjust and more rebellious [than ‘Aad and Thamood.]
53. And the ‘demolished and overturned’ [cities of Lot's people] were even more at going down [into Hell.]
54. And there covered them t [the wreckage] that did cover the [city because of the earthquake.]
55. [O unbelieving man,] which is it then of the bounties of your Lord, that you deny?)
And here is the recitation of these great ayat of the Quran:
And this way of God's dealing keeps to the present time without changing: the examples of that are the wars, earthquakes, hurricanes, floods and epidemics.
The recent Coronavirus or Covid 19 epidemic caused one million fatalities in addition to the disease that afflicted about 50 million (this is roughly speaking and I do not remember the exact numbers.)
And a more recent example is the Ukraine war were a complete nation has been shaken vigorously: thousand died and millions fled their homes with consequences to the entire world.
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