The UN Climate debate in Poland

[petros]

Time to post this again......
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/art...-cent-consensus-among-climate-scientists-many
Where did you get your degree Waldo? Macchu Picchu?
Plus you probably never read any of those paper because you wouldn't understand them...
You are just repeating what the bobbing heads say and call anyone who disagrees a white Natty!
Ad Nauseum!

Have you perused any of the papers in the 97% of 33% group?

Some of them are off the wall and not written by people in climate or earth sciences.

The topic could have been "the impact of AGW on hairstyles" and it would be included.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Re: The UN Climate debate in Polanu

Oh yes.............Hoid tells us: "its not just teachers, its every scientist on earth"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



By which Hoid means every person who is PAID to support the LIE-berals climate narrative!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As we have all seen- the LIE-beral climate initiatives will do a MUCH BETTER JOB of saving civil service union Hog seats on the gravy train than it will benefit the environment in any way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The LIE-beral carbon crap and trade scam will ONLY clean cash from wallets and leave the dirt in the air!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fifteen years of European crap and trade garbage CONFIRMS my statement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it not a sad thing that LIE-berals have solemnly assured us their carbon cap and trade garbage will be good for the environment and WON’T kill off our economy....and NOBODY believes a word of it!
I have some comments to make about federal Climate change initiatives and my comments appear in brackets beside quotes from our federal minister of carbon bullshit. And I am amazed how delusional LIE-berals are-and how much crap they expect US to swallow when it comes to climate issues? I am amazed that otherwise intelligent people will not laugh crap like this out of parliament! We are told this):
Federal Climate Change Minister Catherine McKenna has revealed the Liberal government’s targets for reducing Canada’s greenhouse gas emissions.
In saying that the Stephen Harper government’s targets are the “floor”, or minimum of what the Liberals will achieve, we now know the Liberal target is to reduce Canada’s emissions to at least 30% below 2005 levels by 2030.
From there, it’s easy to do the math.
Canada’s emissions in 2005 were 749 megatonnes and a megatonne, or Mt, is 1 million tonnes of industrial greenhouse gases.
A 30% reduction from 2005 would reduce our annual emissions to 524 Mt by 2030.
Given that Canada's current emissions are about 726 Mt annually, this means the Liberals want to reduce them, at a minimum, by 202 Mt annually by 2030.
(Yes-LIE-berals seriously PRETEND that they can shut down 30 percent of the Cdn economy in a few years without serious repercussions!)
To achieve this, the Liberals will have to shut down the equivalent of Canada’s entire oil and gas industry, which produces 179 Mt of emissions annually, within 15 years, plus find another 23 Mt of annual reductions in areas such as transportation, electricity and agriculture.
Given current emissions of 726 Mt annually, this means the Liberals intend to reduce our emissions, at a minimum, by 104 Mt annually by 2020.
So-104 MT gone by 2020 and another 100 MT in reductions between 2020 and 2030 to give the approximate 202 MT total.
To achieve this, the Liberals will have to shut down the equivalent of 58% of Canada’s oil and gas sector within five years-with the rest killed off in the next 10 years.
(LIE-berals have been spouting environmental garbage for years. Jean Chretien started the environmental manure spreader working with his Kyoto blather.)
Chretien pledged to reduce Canada’s emissions to an average of 6% below 1990 levels from 2008 to 2012, under the Kyoto accord.
That meant the Liberal target was an annual average of 576 Mt of emissions in the five years between 2008 and 2012.
When the Liberals lost power in 2006, Canada’s annual emissions were 740 Mt, or 164 Mt over Chretien’s Kyoto pledge.
(So much for LIE-beral plans-our carbon foot print ACTUALLY INCREASED by roughly the amount LIE-berals hoped to shrink it!)
To meet the Liberal target coming into office, Harper would have had to shut down the equivalent of almost all of Canada’s transportation sector (170 Mt) within two years, because the reductions required to achieve Chretien’s target of an average 6% reduction between 2008 and 2012 would have increased every year until 2012.
(Given current energy technology, the only way Trudeau could achieve the Liberal target would be to waste billions of taxpayer dollars buying fraud-ridden international carbon credits.)
(And its this international carbon credit scam that LIE-berals REALLY want to introduce-it’s a way of beating money out of the hides of Cdns and creating a HUGE LIE-beral slush fund and making tax ROBBERY LOOK virtuous because its for the environment-so they will say! Much of the cash raised will be sent overseas as foreign aid to messed up dictators in third world countries courtesy of our hard core socialist prime minster Justin Trudope who has inherited his fathers hatred for western democracy. Our PET-Pierre has been exposed as a hardcore communist who wanted to build a socialist utopia in Canada and his sons have inherited this mad dream.)
(One has only to read the `love letter to Castro` written by Sasha Trudeau-printed with serious intent in the Toronto (RED) Star newspaper and mocked in the National Post-or listen to our brainless prime minster babbling about finding the roots of terror and `engaging` with Isis to realize the Trudope world view is utterly delusional. The Trudeaus have an ultimate vision for a future Canada that makes Tyler Durgan and his Fight Club look mild by comparison!)
( This carbon crap/foreign aid/tax scam will not clean the air because LIE-berals will ensure that their pals-the most wealthy Cdns of the civil service will continue pumping out their jumbo carbon footprint while the rest of us struggle to manage our lives under the carbon credit tax burden. LIE-berals MUST BUY the votes of civil service or be swept out of office so there will be NO changes to civil service Hog lifestyle or of their ample carbon foot prints!)
(The carbon credit foreign aid will not end air pollution, it will simply move it around and allow people in other countries to take up the slack-LIE-beral carbon crap will cripple our industries and our economy with massive costs and transfer money to other people so THEY CAN drive cars and run dirty industries in our place.)
(Canadian Geographic magazine and some other media outlets give us the REAL CLUE how to clear the air-we have only to balance our govt books! Scientist were quoted in Cdn Geographic and other media outlets as saying “that in the 9 months after the 9/11 terror attack in New York-during which time 25 percent of the worlds airline fleet was grounded-there WAS MEASURABLE IMPROVEMENT in World air quality. Airplanes are the dirtiest form of transportation-WAY more FILTHY that ALL other forms of transportation combined!)
(Our environment is certainly at risk and we MUST make hard choices about what we can afford and what we really NEED! Goofing off in an airplane on holiday is NOT a NEED-especially since about a third of all Cdns cannot afford time off for any sort of holiday at all! Its mainly our WELL PAID civil service and their allies who are flying about-after all, they are paid ONE THIRD MORE for the same work as the rest of us-WITHOUT factoring in those solid gold pensions they get-the ones that are plunging into bankruptcy anyway as govt cannot shovel cash into them fast enough to cover all the entitlements-these pension plans are what most of this carbon crap and trade tax rip off will be used to prop up! This carbon crap is about foreign aid for Trudeau and about civil service pension aid to BUY LIE-beral votes-it is not and NEVER WAS about the environment.)
(Cutting back on Hog gravy will clear the air! They will be forced to do as we do-drive smaller cars, buy smaller houses, get their fat asses off costly/dirty airplanes, be more thoughtful about how often they run gas guzzling toys....and the environment WILL thank us!)
(Cut back on Hog gravy and they will stop doing insane things like running electric bubble systems to prevent the ice from forming around their docks in Muskoka-we wouldn’t want the winter ice to damage all that costly cedar would we? No matter what it does to the environment to run electric motors all winter-Hog docks are MORE IMPORTANT than clean air!)
(Cut back on gravy and they wont be running a huge motor boat up and down the Severn River so their teenagers can SURF on the huge waves! Cut back on frivolous gas guzzling toys and the world gets cleaner-and WE GET TO KEEP OUR JOBS and our HOMES!)

If you follow the Lib. logic on this STB if you reduce Carbon by 10% and buy the remaining Credits you hit your target, but don't actually reduce Carbon

 

[Serryah]

So a question.

IF scientists are right and climate change is real, and IF people would reduce their imprint in carbon, for example, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?

Another question.

IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?

A final question.

IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

 

[Dixie Cup]

So a question.

IF scientists are right and climate change is real, and IF people would reduce their imprint in carbon, for example, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?



Since carbon is an essential part of life, why would we want to reduce it and if we did, how would it actually help the world and "give us a few more years?" I'm not sure I understand your query. Are you willing to stop breathing? The solution is to plant more trees, preserve and clean up our environment of actual pollutants (i.e. oceans & plastics, release of dangerous chemicals into the air, stop allowing the discharge of "poop" into our oceans especially since we have the technology to prevent that very thing so it's also about holding governments to account for not providing or not utilizing the resources that we give them to stop this from happening). Climate Change is real and has been for thousands of years; we've hat hot swings and cold swings so this is nothing new and nothing to be afraid of.

Another question.

IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?


There is NOTHING we can do to assuage mother nature. It is simply not in our power to do so despite what you may hear and/or read. What we CAN do is not pollute our air, water and soil and ensure that those who do pay a very high price for doing so.

A final question.

IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

See above.

 

[pgs]

So a question.

IF scientists are right and climate change is real, and IF people would reduce their imprint in carbon, for example, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?

Another question.

IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?

A final question.

IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

If climate change is real ? Climate is always changing and has since the creation of earth . If climate changes rapidly as scientists seem to be suggesting wouldn’t we be be smarter to spend monies to prepare for and mitigate its effects , rather then taxing consumers and putting the proceeds into general revenue ? And if carbon is the culprit, wouldn’t the priests of climate be rallying against air travel as it is one of the largest producers of carbon in the atmosphere? What I see is 1000’s of people yearly going to exotic locations to discuss the evils of climate change , always on someone else’s dime . Global tourism should be taboo if we want to reduce carbon .

 

[spilledthebeer]

So a question.

IF scientists are right and climate change is real, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?

Another question.

IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?

A final question.

IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

======================================================================================================



Oh Serrya!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The answers to your questions are oddly simple- once damned LIE-beals stop tinkering with the answers for SELFISH POLITICAL GAIN!!!!!!!!


Are we merely upsetting the weather balance................or destroying it?????????????????????


There is NOT a clear answer on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals point to the loss of snow cover on African Mount Kilimanjaro as proof of global warming.................


Author Michael Crichton in his book "State of Fear" ridicules this notion and points out - citing scholarly studies that indicate that re-planting the trees on the slopes of the mountain will restore the snow pack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Africans burn wood for cooking and any occasional heating needs- so deforestation is relentless problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Note- that it is deforestation and not cars that are the problem here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Inhabitants of some Polynesian islands claim that global warming and rising sea levels are threatening to drown their islands and this certainly sounds like a threat..............................


Our Ontari-owe broadcaster TVO has played a documentary called "Sand Wars" - describing how the global trade in sand for construction is destroying beaches and even whole islands........................


Why is sea sand so much better than sand from a desert???????????


Because desert sand is more rounded and does not fit so tightly together in a cement mixture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Cement made with sand from beaches and oceans makes a stronger cement mix.....................and is thus prized by builders!!!!!!!!!



Therefore huge dredgers are sucking up sand from ocean bottoms any place where the govt is weak or susceptible to bribery............


And sucking up all that sand changes water depths, changes ocean currents that had previously been blocked by sand bars............


and changes patterns of erosion that have been in place for centuries!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It has been over one hundred years since Ontari-owe banned the practice of "stone hooking" ....................


Ontarians in need of work could make a nice little living "hooking" stones off the lake bottom in the old days- and hauling the material to construction sites!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And just as with the Polynesian Islands- the loss of material near the shore altered the wave patterns and local currents- the Toronto Islands exist simply because of sediment deposited by local rivers- and so stone hooking was banned to prevent major shore line erosion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are Polynesian islands being eroded because of global warming or because of the Pacific equivalent of stone hooking?????????


There is debate on this and again Crichton cites various sources for this debate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If your island is being eroded and yet you never had any stone hooking near your shores- does this mean the sea level is in fact rising????????????????????


Or should you look farther afield to nearby islands where such destructive dredging HAS taken place- with resulting alterations to wave patterns, ocean currents and erosion?????????????????


The jury is out on this one- with Crichton again citing assorted studies to explain that sea level rise is being GREATLY EXAGGERATED - by LIE-berals who see personal profit in climate hysteria!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Are we affecting the climate to some degree?????????????????


I say yes- how could we not with all the industrial activity that goes on?????????????


But again- are we heating up the ENTIRE WORLD or only parts of it where we are most active?????????????


Again- Crichton supplies useful points- such as many of our weather stations were originally constructed many decades ago and a good many were put out in the countryside!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WE KNOW that forested areas are cooler than hay fields and that hay fields are cooler than parking lots!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yet many of our weather stations- that used to be in forests or hay fields are now- thanks to urban gorwth- now standing in the middle of concrete parking lots - with resulting HIGHER TEMPERATURE READINGS that deceitful LIE-berals refuse to compensate for!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So is our entire world heating up????????????????????????


Or just our parking lots????????????????????????



From personal experience I can tell you that the air temperature in my heavily treed back yard is a full 15 degrees Celsius COOLER than my full sun front yard on a hot August day.............................


Could we reduce "global warming" by planting more trees???????????????????????


Planting more trees apparently DOES WORK- to reduce heat absorbed by concrete- otherwise why is the city ordering that new buildings have roof top gardens to shield from sun and heat absorption???????????????????


LIE-beral climate hysteria is reaching fever pitch even as their carbon crap and trade TAX SCAM is being FULLY EXPOSED as nothing but a HUGE GRAVY GRAB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


One way to "save" our environment would be to cut back on gravy for our civil service union Hogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Not only are Hog wages and pension demands crippling our economy- the gravy they get is too often spent on GAS GUZZLING TOYS such as atv`s. sea doos, snowmobiles- and most dire of all -AIR PLANE TRIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We have the evidence and have had it for 20 years- that traveling by air plane is the MOST DIRTY way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


WE have ample evidence that the "contrails" - those milky white plumes of water vapour given off by high flying air planes have a MASSIVE effect on local weather!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We have ample evidence that breathing heavy concentrations of engine exhaust gas is not good for us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So why not CUT BACK ON GRAVY FOR HOGS??????????????????????????????


Since Hogs are the class of our society with the most money and BIGGEST carbon foot print!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Is it not a SIMPLE solution?????????????????????????


Hogs already get AT LEAST one third more pay than private sector workers doing the same work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And Hogs get pensions so rich they are not even available by LAW - to private sector workers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals talk so often about fairness- and then get into a series of dirty back room deals with Hogs- deals that are THE POLAR OPPOSITE of FAIR- to the general public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If global warming is as DIRE as LIE-berals claim then why are they not putting HEAVY FEES AND TAXES on FRIVOLOUS gas guzzling toys such as riding lawn mowers and sea doos?????????????


Why not put up airport fees and taxes to discourage flying??????????????????


Why no completely BAN the bubble systems that have become so popular among Hogs with recreational properties in Muskoka- I



refer to the electrically powered air compressors that run for 6 months each year- to blow compressed air into the lakes around the



valuable cedar docks of our privileged class so they will not have to bother with the kind of winter ice damage that their parents and



grand parents dealt with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If our world is in such dire condition WHY NOT take direct and honest action- to CUT OUT FRIVOLOUS USE OF FOSSIL FUEL!!!!!!!!!


Did you know that our federal Environment Minster- the Infamous Climate Barbie McKenna FLIES MORE IN AIR PLANES than any other LIE-beral minister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes- Climate Barbie flies MORE and farther than the Minster for Foreign Affairs- and that minister holds a portfolio that REQUIRES some international travel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



If the climate condition is so dire should Climate Barbie be setting an example and taking a train????????????????


The actions of Climate Barbie demonstrate most graphically how SERIOUS LIE-berals really think our environment really is!!!!!!!!!!!!



In a society where obesity is a major plague- why not discourage use of sea doos with suitable taxes and registration fees so the people will get into a canoe or rowboat instead and get some exercise?????????????????????????????/


Why are LIE-berals so WELDED TO THEIR CARBON CRAP AND TRADE GARBAGE??????????????????


The answer is absolutely simple: LIE-berals CANNOT SURVIVE UNLESS they can buy Hog votes with gobs of gravy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our environment will remain under threat as long as LIE-berals are in charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And LIE-berals will continue spreading their climate hysteria as long as they THINK it can buy them votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Twin_Moose]

So a question.
IF scientists are right and climate change is real, and IF people would reduce their imprint in carbon, for example, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?
Another question.
IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?
A final question.
IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

Your question has been answered over and over in this thread, here is questions to you

1) How does money collected from mainly upper middle class and higher returned at, was 100% now 90% amount in the future who knows? To the poor helping GW aka climate change?

2) How does money skimmed from a Carbon tax sent to third world countries to buy Carbon credits and to fulfill UN $10 Billion a year obligation to help third world economies helping combat Climate change?

A huge part of our economy is Carbon based from Oil, Mining down through to farming what impact will the tax have on our economy?

Finally why are real world solutions being introduced by provinces without a Carbon tax being rejected because of the no tax solution by the Lib. Gov.?

 

[spilledthebeer]

Your question has been answered over and over in this thread, here is questions to you

1) How does money collected from mainly upper middle class and higher returned at, was 100% now 90% amount in the future who knows? To the poor helping GW aka climate change?

2) How does money skimmed from a Carbon tax sent to third world countries to buy Carbon credits and to fulfill UN $10 Billion a year obligation to help third world economies helping combat Climate change?

A huge part of our economy is Carbon based from Oil, Mining down through to farming what impact will the tax have on our economy?

Finally why are real world solutions being introduced by provinces without a Carbon tax being rejected because of the no tax solution by the Lib. Gov.?

Some good questions there Moose- but here are a couple more:


How does giving third world countries OUR CASH so they can increase their carbon foot print, help the global environment???????????


Or does it just buy votes for Hogs???????????????????


How does buying $2 billion dollars per year of carbon "credits" from Viet Nam help the environment, as our federal LIE-berals are CLAIMING they are doing - just so Viet Nam can buy more cars and motorbikes and air conditioners???????????????


Would we not get a bigger bang for our bucks if we used that 2 billion- which has grown to over SIX BILLION- by simply counting up the 3 years worth of LIE-beral carbon credit purchases- and using that cash to build subways around major cities so people will not use cars so often??????????????????????


How does impoverishing generations of Cdns with massive debt and carbon crap and trade scams produce clean the air since every penny that LIE-berals rip from our pockets or BORROW from bankers ends up in the pockets of Hogs with their already HUGE CARBON FOOT PRINT- that LIE-beral gravy helps them maintain??????????????


NO LIE-beral has ever explained how encouraging a greedy gang of Hogs to maintain their LARGE Carbon FOOT PRINT - while poor people have their lives deliberately destroyed by carbon taxes that only clean cash from wallets and leaves the dirt in the air?????????



If our global climate is in such DIRE CONDITION then why dont LIE-beral govt ministers STOP FLYING in filthy air planes which we KNOW are the dirtiest way to travel - and instead start taking the much more fuel efficient TRAINS???????????????


If our climate situation is a DIRE as LIE-berals claim then WHY is Toronto Silly Hall handing out HUNDREDS OF FREE PARKING PASSES to its pals??????



And of course these free passes are being given BOTH to current and RETIRED HOGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And there is NOTHING to prevent the Hogs from using the passes on a Saturday night when going for a meal or to a sports event!!!!!!!!!


If LIE-berals truly want to save the environment and force us out of our cars to take public transit then WHY are these freebie parking passes being handed out to Hogs??????????????????


LIE-beral greed and hypocrisy is a STAGGERING MONSTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MHz]

What are you willing to offer me?

Make his nuts 2x the size they are at the moment. Should we make you get your posts verified by Dex first?

 

[MHz]

1:45 Greenland without the ice, the center is a hole 1.5km deep. 3km of ice cannot bend 50km of granite. The 2nd vid show the age of the ice. The newest ice is there since the end of the last ice-age so the ice is growing. Only the ice at the edges is moving and it is being replaced faster than it is being lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=60&v=u0VbPE0TOtQ
1:45 3 layers of ice

 

[spilledthebeer]

Re: The UN Climate debate in Polanu

If you follow the Lib. logic on this STB if you reduce Carbon by 10% and buy the remaining Credits you hit your target, but don't actually reduce Carbon

Oh come now Moose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


We expect better of you than this latest comment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You CANNOT HIT ANY CARBON TARGET by expending huge sums of money to simply move the jobs and pollution around to different locations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you want to hit real targets then you must restrict NON ESSENTIAL use of fossil fuel and the quickest way to do that is to cut back on Hog gravy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The so called AVERAGE civil service union Hog gets pay that is at least one third higher than that of ordinary people engaged in the "same work"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


With the usual LIE-beral "FIX" being in those numbers since private sector workers try to keep their jobs by actually making themselves USEFUL to an employer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Our over fed govt Hogs spend their days plotting ways to do as little as possible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Comparing Hog wages to ordinary people is apples and oranges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It is a classic LIE-beral LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[petros]

So a question.
IF scientists are right and climate change is real, and IF people would reduce their imprint in carbon, for example, it'd help the world overall and maybe give us a few more years leeway to try and think of a solution that works better, why is it a bad idea?
Another question.
IF carbon reduction/carbon tax is NOT the way to go, then what do you, those who oppose such measures, suggest we do to help settle the climate down to a more reasonable measure?
A final question.
IF you don't believe in climate change what so ever, then what's the REAL issue you have if there are a large portion of people who do want to see the earth better protected? Do you really hate the world that much that it doesn't matter to you at all what happens to it?

Would it be fair for us to burn coal and oil leaving none for making steel, plastic, chemicals, medicines etc in the future?

Without the boogie man/aramagedon scenarios would you being willing to subsidize the conversion of coal and oil powerplants to burn super cheap, super abundant and somewhat renewable natural gas?

Would you do the same to convert trucks, trains and ships to natural gas?

Natural gas doesn't require any processing beyond drying if any and you've already paid for the extensive distribution system that comes right into your home. In fact it's possible for you to contribute to the NG grid just like with power.

Human, animal and food waste can easily be turned into 3 valuable products that we absolutely need for the future. Drinking water, NG and most importantly soil. The energy we waste from waste is mind boggling.

Your morning dump could be used to cook your next meal, supply clean water for a cup of coffee and fertilize enough grain for a loaf of bread. Without a boogie man/apocalypse scenario would you be willing to fork out the cash for your own needs like the UN expects you to pay for this technology for someone else?

I dont believe in the boogie man.

I have absolutely no issues with being energy efficient however I do have issues with being lied too and taxed by a fledgling Global unelected Government.

How will limiting energy benefit developing nations in creating industry to pull themselves out of poverty? I want no part of a global dictatorship that uses my money to keep billions of humaNS impoverished.

Yes it's great that we can give them mechanical equipment capable of turning human and animal shit into a sustainable source of drinking water, rich soil for a garden and gas to cook their meals with instead of deforestation.

Yes it's awesome this will reduce starvation/malnutrition, water shortages,denudation and disease but it does nothing in the way of creating jobs which in turn creates a revenue stream for govts to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure.

I don't know about you but I have no problem giving cash or of myself but I do have problems in being lied to in order to establish a global government under the guise of doomsday scenarios.

It'll undoubtedly give equality. We'll be living under a dictatorship.

 

[Serryah]

Since carbon is an essential part of life, why would we want to reduce it and if we did, how would it actually help the world and "give us a few more years?" I'm not sure I understand your query. Are you willing to stop breathing? The solution is to plant more trees, preserve and clean up our environment of actual pollutants (i.e. oceans & plastics, release of dangerous chemicals into the air, stop allowing the discharge of "poop" into our oceans especially since we have the technology to prevent that very thing so it's also about holding governments to account for not providing or not utilizing the resources that we give them to stop this from happening). Climate Change is real and has been for thousands of years; we've hat hot swings and cold swings so this is nothing new and nothing to be afraid of.

Water is an essential part of life but too much of it can kill you.

IF carbon - and just carbon - is the culprit, then I would think it's obvious why it should be reduced. I personally think it's more than that though, it's carbon, plus the release of stored carbon, plus the retreat of ice, plus changes in the environment in general and while yes, we go through changes all the time - have before and will again - I also think we, humans, do have an impact on what's happened. I mean, how can we not? The biggest thing about the whole issue is the unknown and people arguing about it.

I was just wondering why it's such a bad thing to care that it's happening, regardless of *how*?

There is NOTHING we can do to assuage mother nature. It is simply not in our power to do so despite what you may hear and/or read. What we CAN do is not pollute our air, water and soil and ensure that those who do pay a very high price for doing so.

Agreed but as mentioned, this is more than just "Mother Nature". It's what we, people, the over 7 Billion of us, have added TO the world that's pushing the change. That then turns the problem and arguments of having to "pay" in some way to boil down to "Why should I?" and "it's weather/climate and always changes so why should I care?". THAT is the point.

See above.

I see your See and raise you my own.

And also point out, again, what's so wrong with wanting to preserve the climate better than what we are now?

 

[Serryah]

Would it be fair for us to burn coal and oil leaving none for making steel, plastic, chemicals, medicines etc in the future?

I'd rather see coal and oil left in the ground as tech advances show us being able to replace their off-products with natural, healthier or at least more environmentally friendly alternatives. Some things we can't replace, I know that, but what's wrong with replacing what we can with the better alternative?

Without the boogie man/aramagedon scenarios would you being willing to subsidize the conversion of coal and oil powerplants to burn super cheap, super abundant and somewhat renewable natural gas?

Would you do the same to convert trucks, trains and ships to natural gas?

I'd rather not burn natural gas either but that's my personal preference. That said, why not?

Natural gas doesn't require any processing beyond drying if any and you've already paid for the extensive distribution system that comes right into your home. In fact it's possible for you to contribute to the NG grid just like with power.

Human, animal and food waste can easily be turned into 3 valuable products that we absolutely need for the future. Drinking water, NG and most importantly soil. The energy we waste from waste is mind boggling.

Your morning dump could be used to cook your next meal, supply clean water for a cup of coffee and fertilize enough grain for a loaf of bread.

Okay, again, beyond my dislike for NG personally, I don't see the issue.

Without a boogie man/apocalypse scenario would you be willing to fork out the cash for your own needs like the UN expects you to pay for this technology for someone else?

I don't see...

Wait.

What's the UN got to do with this?

I dont believe in the boogie man.

Okay, good, neither do I.

I have absolutely no issues with being energy efficient however I do have issues with being lied too and taxed by a fledgling Global unelected Government.

Whotothewhatnow? What Fledgling Global Unelected Government???

How will limiting energy benefit developing nations in creating industry to pull themselves out of poverty? I want no part of a global dictatorship that uses my money to keep billions of humaNS impoverished.

I... what?

Yes it's great that we can give them mechanical equipment capable of turning human and animal shit into a sustainable source of drinking water, rich soil for a garden and gas to cook their meals with instead of deforestation.

Yes it's awesome this will reduce starvation/malnutrition, water shortages,denudation and disease but it does nothing in the way of creating jobs which in turn creates a revenue stream for govts to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure.

... okay, the train swerves and weaves on the track...

I don't know about you but I have no problem giving cash or of myself but I do have problems in being lied to in order to establish a global government under the guise of doomsday scenarios.

Before leaping off the cliff and crashing into the ravine below.

It'll undoubtedly give equality. We'll be living under a dictatorship.

So in essence then, you're all for better climate and all that jazz, but you think some boogie man (despite not believing in such) World Government exists and is trying to skrew you over thus you're against anything that might help the climate and the world in general?


Uh... huh.

Least you answered the last question I guess? o_o

 

[petros]

IF carbon - and just carbon - is the culprit, then I would think it's obvious why it should be reduced.

Here's the thing. Carbon is harmless and a completely different molecule than C02.

So no, there is no point in reducing carbon.

By calling it a carbon tax rather than a CO2 tax it leaves the door open to tax CO2.

Doublespeak.

 

[spilledthebeer]

Would it be fair for us to burn coal and oil leaving none for making steel, plastic, chemicals, medicines etc in the future?

Without the boogie man/aramagedon scenarios would you being willing to subsidize the conversion of coal and oil powerplants to burn super cheap, super abundant and somewhat renewable natural gas?

Would you do the same to convert trucks, trains and ships to natural gas?

Natural gas doesn't require any processing beyond drying if any and you've already paid for the extensive distribution system that comes right into your home. In fact it's possible for you to contribute to the NG grid just like with power.

Human, animal and food waste can easily be turned into 3 valuable products that we absolutely need for the future. Drinking water, NG and most importantly soil. The energy we waste from waste is mind boggling.

Your morning dump could be used to cook your next meal, supply clean water for a cup of coffee and fertilize enough grain for a loaf of bread. Without a boogie man/apocalypse scenario would you be willing to fork out the cash for your own needs like the UN expects you to pay for this technology for someone else?

I dont believe in the boogie man.

I have absolutely no issues with being energy efficient however I do have issues with being lied too and taxed by a fledgling Global unelected Government.

How will limiting energy benefit developing nations in creating industry to pull themselves out of poverty? I want no part of a global dictatorship that uses my money to keep billions of humaNS impoverished.

Yes it's great that we can give them mechanical equipment capable of turning human and animal shit into a sustainable source of drinking water, rich soil for a garden and gas to cook their meals with instead of deforestation.

Yes it's awesome this will reduce starvation/malnutrition, water shortages,denudation and disease but it does nothing in the way of creating jobs which in turn creates a revenue stream for govts to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure.

I don't know about you but I have no problem giving cash or of myself but I do have problems in being lied to in order to establish a global government under the guise of doomsday scenarios.

It'll undoubtedly give equality. We'll be living under a dictatorship.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FUEL FROM WASTE???????????????????????????????


LIE-BERALS discussed that a decade or more ago and decided to go with CORN instead to make ethanol to mix with gas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


It made western grain farmers happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


After all- during the LIE-beral Chretien era- Cdn farmers were so broke that they were SMUGGLING CDN grain across the borders to United States where they got better prices!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So using corn for ethanol put up the cost of your meat but earned some western votes for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Of course putting ethanol in regular gas means that you will break your lawn mower or other gas powered device unless you use premium gas- without ethanol in it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Ethanol is hdroscopic- if I recall the word properly- it is alcohol based and readily absorbs water from the air- and that water rusts out fuel systems!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So your cheapie lawn mower gets wrecked and your car needs elaborate protection against water in the fuel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



But using corn for ethanol pissed off Hog farmers in other parts if the country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hog farmers use corn for part of their feed as well so your bacon costs more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But the REAL BIG DEAL for Hog producers was the proposal to make biofuel out of Hog waste!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hog farmers SPEND HUGE MONEY paying to dispose of immense amounts of Hog waste product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


A single pregnant 900 pound sow makes a BIG PILE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Being able to truck that Hog waste off to a local biofuel producer FOR FREE would make your food bill go down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



But LIE-berals have been at all this stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


So in true LIE-beral fashion- the most wasteful and costly solutions are always PREFERRED BY LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And sometimes some dim bulb LIE-beral will talk about burning garbage for generating heat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


To see how BAD that idea is one has only to read old issues of Whitby This Week and Oshawa This Week from a few years back to get a feel for HOW BAD a political black eye local politicians got for building the incinerator on Courtice Road- south of highway 401!!!!!!!!


And the worst of it is how many Durham committee meeting were "in camera" -meaning NO PUBLIC ADMITTED while the latest emission failure of the incinerator was discussed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Is the incinerator burning clean now?



Politicians offer assurances but really Who KNOWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



And NO minutes of meetings discussing the incinerator were ever published either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Or we could discuss the LIE-berals converting a coal generating plant in Thunder Bay to burn biosolids- meaning pellets formed from garbage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There is NO North American supplier of suitable pellets -so they are shipped in from Europe to the west end of Lake Superior!!!!!!!!!!!


The plant now burns biosolids- but the electricity it produces COSTS TWENTY FIVE TIMES MORE than other forms of generation!!!!!!!



But LIE-berals DID SAVE about 60 civil service union Hog jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And would we in Ontri-owe pay to convert generating plants from burning coal to natural gas?????????????????



WE ALREADY HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And Wynne-bag LIE-berals made such a mess of it all that their fomerly dominant party position has been so savagely chopped by enraged voters that Wynne-bag and company went form 80 plus seats down to 7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


LIE-berals will NOT be forming a majority govt in Ontari-owe any time soon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[petros]

I'd rather see coal and oil left in the ground as tech advances show us being able to replace their off-products with natural, healthier or at least more environmentally friendly alternatives. Some things we can't replace, I know that, but what's wrong with replacing what we can with the better alternative?
I'd rather not burn natural gas either but that's my personal preference. That said, why not?
Okay, again, beyond my dislike for NG personally, I don't see the issue.
I don't see...
Wait.
What's the UN got to do with this?
Okay, good, neither do I.
Whotothewhatnow? What Fledgling Global Unelected Government???
I... what?
... okay, the train swerves and weaves on the track...
Before leaping off the cliff and crashing into the ravine below.
So in essence then, you're all for better climate and all that jazz, but you think some boogie man (despite not believing in such) World Government exists and is trying to skrew you over thus you're against anything that might help the climate and the world in general?
Uh... huh.
Least you answered the last question I guess? o_o

I'm all for reducing real pollution and energy-efficiency.

As for "climate". It's bullshit. We live in the most stable climate in 125,000 years.

If you feel good about a global government that takes the foot off the head of a drowning man but still leaves him miles from shore, then their 30 year brainwashing campaign has worked on you.

 

[petros]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FUEL FROM WASTE???????????????????????????????

What did you think oil and gas was composed of? It came from space?

 

[MHz]

Since you are a troll it is worth taking your post apart to see of it is helpful pt you are trying to create chaos.

Would it be fair for us to burn coal and oil leaving none for making steel, plastic, chemicals, medicines etc in the future?

Coal can be used to out hearts content and the cost is as low as it could possibly be. Oil is not going to run out but a serious reduction could be made by using hemp for plastics and preventing illness is better than curing it, which never happens. Running out of raw iron ore is more likely than having ways of melting the iron out of it.
Your fake concern is toted an rejected or you would be referencing the national debt instead of trying to make life as expensive as possible when the next generation is already destined to be sitting on the couch if the current people are left in charge. Run the debt up and make sure you don't rely on food that is imported.

Without the boogie man/aramagedon scenarios would you being willing to subsidize the conversion of coal and oil powerplants to burn super cheap, super abundant and somewhat renewable natural gas?

Of course not, as long as you can do it when the last load of coal is burned. Doing it a minute soon is robbing the people that foot the bills, the least important citizens. Coal fired plants have CO2 and ash as waste by-products. CO2 can be fed into greenhouses and the produce be used by the locals as a free benefit or exported as a 'product'. Ash and water makes an acid, almost the same as wood ash so it could be used for weed control and when the acid is gone it is 'plant friendly'. NG can replace gasoline as soon as the kits include a fill up from home. Low mileage rides should be electric and when coal tuns out that replacement already has some parts on the shelves. If their expenses are lower than our it is because we planned out work so they had less to do rather than more or have a problem that is impossible to fix.

Would you do the same to convert trucks, trains and ships to natural gas?

Of course not, I would change it so the nations whose oil was best suited to those needs are the ones who get the contracts. Turbines can run on a variety of fuels and ships do not shift gears very often and running completely below the waves would make them more efficient and by them small N-plants would make more sense.

Natural gas doesn't require any processing beyond drying if any and you've already paid for the extensive distribution system that comes right into your home. In fact it's possible for you to contribute to the NG grid just like with power.

That can still be used, it doesn't mean coal and gas should be abandoned asap. It means the 100 years we don't use it is 100 years the last generation will have. Your whole method screams fuk everybody else, we deserve the best and if that fuks up the future too fuking bad. That get bad because you think you should be the 'leader of the pack'.

Human, animal and food waste can easily be turned into 3 valuable products that we absolutely need for the future. Drinking water, NG and most importantly soil. The energy we waste from waste is mind boggling.

Pitting them in landfills means easy access to stockpiles should some real disaster make each community fully responsible for their own survival. As long as you have the locations it can stay buried until needed. BTW, there is no shortage of peat in the world, there is a lack of means of moving it to where it is needed.

Your morning dump could be used to cook your next meal, supply clean water for a cup of coffee and fertilize enough grain for a loaf of bread. Without a boogie man/apocalypse scenario would you be willing to fork out the cash for your own needs like the UN expects you to pay for this technology for someone else?

Engineer shacks already use that same system, you don't use it yet so why should anybody else as it isn't cheap, it is effective, that is what it was designed for.

I dont believe in the boogie man.

You and the rest of the collective left here are the creepiest fuks in here and probably most of the net. You are also becoming extinct.

I have absolutely no issues with being energy efficient however I do have issues with being lied too and taxed by a fledgling Global unelected Government.

The Global warming hoax is a World Bank scam, the Canadian Govt just forks the money over as it is demanded. The alternative is to become Cuba in 1950. You didn't mention that you don't lie to anybody and if you do you correct it at the first opportunity. JT keeps the slips for the donations made to the Clinton Foundation.

How will limiting energy benefit developing nations in creating industry to pull themselves out of poverty? I want no part of a global dictatorship that uses my money to keep billions of humaNS impoverished.

The goods that they receive are manufactured elsewhere and they are the consumers. What you basically said that they can go fuk themselves as the manufacturing would go to them rather than the countries already set up to do that. We export oil and grain, we would be getting no contracts anyway The EU and US would love to get all the Mid-East contracts, they will get none yer all those countries will surpass us in their standard of living, simply by taking better care of the poorest.

Yes it's great that we can give them mechanical equipment capable of turning human and animal shit into a sustainable source of drinking water, rich soil for a garden and gas to cook their meals with instead of deforestation.

Why would we not just send them grain and they can sit on the porch an play with the smartphone and watch the sun rise and set without breaking a sweat??

Yes it's awesome this will reduce starvation/malnutrition, water shortages,denudation and disease but it does nothing in the way of creating jobs which in turn creates a revenue stream for govts to build schools, hospitals and infrastructure.

When a country need less than 5% unemployment just to survive when no disasters are happening it is already a failed nation.
You can educate everybody to university level, that doesn't mean more than 15% of them are needed to run the country. If the West fired the needless workers there would be a long lineup of people waiting to jump from high places

I don't know about you but I have no problem giving cash or of myself but I do have problems in being lied to in order to establish a global government under the guise of doomsday scenarios.

Fuk you, you cheer the lame attempt being done today to create that very thing.

It'll undoubtedly give equality. We'll be living under a dictatorship.

You are already owned by the World Bank, denial makes you a liar or an idiot or both.

 

[MHz]

Seems like Antarctica is also sitting above magma that is going down. What are the odds eh??