Return to Me

Dexter Sinister

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Logic has it flaws, DS. Chief among them being the origin of logic, which is flawed human beings.
Yes, logic is a human invention. So is your faith, but that's another issue. If you can't put your trust in logic, what *can* you put your trust in? One answer is faith, the answer you've apparently chosen, but faith in what? There's no general agreement in the world on matters of faith, there are many different faiths and the arguments used to sustain and justify them simply aren't compelling, otherwise there would be general agreement. Why, for instance, should I think you're right and selfsame is wrong, or vice versa? You both produce exactly the same arguments all the time, which really amount to no more than "My book is right." You can have your faith, I can have mine, and there's no way I can transfer mine to you or you can transfer yours to me. In matters of logic there *is* a method of transfer, and it *is* compelling.

The skeptic's mantra, one of the few bits of good advice in the Bible:

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."
-1 Thessalonians 5:21

I've always felt much empathy for Doubting Thomas, I think he had it right, and the multiple admonitions in scripture to trust the unseen over the seen and the blessings promised to those who believe without seeing are preposterous nonsense, that's not the way to understand anything. The only justification for accepting any claim as true is the evidence for it, and as Christopher Hitchens remarked long ago, what is claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
 
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Ludlow

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Logic has it flaws, DS. Chief among them being the origin of logic, which is flawed human beings.

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty." (Zechariah 1:3 NIV)
You believe in the principle of total depravity Motar? That is to say, are all humans born flawed?
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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darkbeaver

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Like Charles Finney Said, the Pulpit is to Blame for America's Fall ? Charisma News

The message above authored by Shane Idleman, lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Lancaster, California begins:

"I looked throughout America to find where her greatness originated. I looked for it in her harbors and on her shorelines, in her fertile fields and boundless prairies, and in her gold mines and vast world commerce, but it was not there. It was not until I went to the churches of America and heard her pulpits aflame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her success. America is great because she is good, and if America ceases to be good, America will cease to be great." (Alexis de Tocqueville, 1805-1859)

Revival in the body of Christ requires pastors to return to God in prayer, holiness, worship and preaching. Idelman's message:

"Therefore tell the people: This is what the Lord Almighty says: ‘Return to me,’ declares the Lord Almighty, ‘and I will return to you,’ says the Lord Almighty." (Zechariah 1:3 NIV)

Are you a Christian? Does this exhortation apply to you?

Yes the message applies to me cuz I'm christian.

I never ate a chimp. Do they taste like chicken?

Yes, Animals Think And Feel. Here's How We Know

Do animals feel empathy? Does an elephant have consciousness? Can a dog plan ahead? These are some of the questions that award-winning environmental writer Carl Safina teases out in his new book, Beyond Words: How Animals Think and Feel.


Yes, Animals Think And Feel. Here's How We Know

I'm a slave to cat's chickens and crows. If it weren't for them I would have no life at all.
 

bluebyrd35

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Maybe! (I'd like some proof)
LOL, read your bible Then research those passages that claim it is a sin. I cannot think an Almighty Spirit would allow all the lower animals to practice homosexuality and not man.

Just look at some of the declarations the men of the bible declared as God's statements and commands. The one that gets me the most:--- Man was created perfect in God's eyes. I really think He needs to pluck the wood out of His eyes. Perfection seems to be the goal, either set for us or which we have set ourselves. On the whole we are below average compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. We still battle our own species!!
 

Cliffy

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Maybe! (I'd like some proof)
First off, Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rabbinical laws. There is no claim by the original authors that they were divinely inspired. Secondly, they are the source of this homophobia. This is the only one of those rabbinical laws that Christian site as they ignore all the others. There are 600 rabbinical laws. Jesus brought a new covenant with god, nullifying the old testament except for the ten commandments and there is no mention of homosexuality in those. Besides, it has been shown by biblical scholars that there are thousands of mistranslated, misinterpreted,added and omitted passages in the bible. The book is not what it is claimed to be.
 

Tecumsehsbones

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Leviticus was written in Greek? Wow, that's a new one on me.

Or just another one of mini-Ward's lies.

NB for everybody but the liar: Leviticus was written in Hebrew.

First off, Leviticus and Deuteronomy are rabbinical laws. There is no claim by the original authors that they were divinely inspired. Secondly, they are the source of this homophobia. This is the only one of those rabbinical laws that Christian site as they ignore all the others. There are 600 rabbinical laws. Jesus brought a new covenant with god, nullifying the old testament except for the ten commandments and there is no mention of homosexuality in those. Besides, it has been shown by biblical scholars that there are thousands of mistranslated, misinterpreted,added and omitted passages in the bible. The book is not what it is claimed to be.
Rabbinical laws written in Greek.

I can't tell if you're lying or just plain stupid.
 

JLM

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LOL, read your bible Then research those passages that claim it is a sin. I cannot think an Almighty Spirit would allow all the lower animals to practice homosexuality and not man.

Just look at some of the declarations the men of the bible declared as God's statements and commands. The one that gets me the most:--- Man was created perfect in God's eyes. I really think He needs to pluck the wood out of His eyes. Perfection seems to be the goal, either set for us or which we have set ourselves. On the whole we are below average compared to the rest of the animal kingdom. We still battle our own species!!


I'm not convinced that the Almighty Spirit does ANY allowing!
 

bluebyrd35

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I'm not convinced that the Almighty Spirit does ANY allowing!
Well, why not continue as that Spirit supposedly began?? Stuck the first couple of humans on earth with one demand.....Do not eat of a certain tree, then left. Why put that darn tree there to begin with??

I still lean towards that "All the world's a stage and we merely the players" that the Bard came up with in one of his plays.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Well, why not continue as that Spirit supposedly began?? Stuck the first couple of humans on earth with one demand.....Do not eat of a certain tree, then left. Why put that darn tree there to begin with??

I still lean towards that "All the world's a stage and we merely the players" that the Bard came up with in one of his plays.


As You Like It, Act II, Scene VII
 

bluebyrd35

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Yup that's the one. JLM What I have noticed over the years is that while many events and happenings seem to be accidental, there are those surprises that were implied through different means. In other words, the event or happening was not a surprise!! Anyway, in my world very few really horrid happenings were unexpected. Whereas, many of the lovely ones were. Denial or disbelief on my part?? Who knows. I am rarely surprised by the disasters, and only mildly surprised by the good ones.

That is how I feel today at this moment in time. Tomorrow who knows??
 

Motar

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Jun 18, 2013
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Well, why not continue as that Spirit supposedly began??

"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." (Genesis 1:2 NIV)
 

Cliffy

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"Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." (Genesis 1:2 NIV)
This is an impossibility as the Earth and the water had not been created yet and there he is floating over non-existent waters. One of the more silly quotes in the bible.