Return to Me

[Motar]

Humans don't have the goodness of character of most other primates. All they have is intellect which may give them technological advantage but moral inferiority and lack of integrity.

According to Harvard Professor Howard Gardner, Cliffy, human intelligence is multidimensional:

"Social Intelligence (SI) is the ability to get along well with others, and to get them to cooperate with you ... SI is one of a cluster of "intelligences," according to the theory of multiple intelligences advanced by Professor Howard Gardner of Harvard University ... The old idea that a person's potential in life can be measured and predicted by a single number - his or her "IQ" score - has lost a great deal of credibility during the last decade or so."
https://www.karlalbrecht.com/siprofile/siprofiletheory.htm

Moral intelligence/integrity are heavily influenced by worldview and will.

If I believe that human beings are created in the image and potential of a Supreme Being, my respect for/expectations of/interactions with human beings improve accordingly.

If I believe that human beings are evolved pond scum, my attitudes toward/opinions of/experiences with human beings decline considerably.

 

[Cliffy]

According to Harvard Professor Howard Gardner, Cliffy, human intelligence is multidimensional:

"Social Intelligence (SI) is the ability to get along well with others, and to get them to cooperate with you ... SI is one of a cluster of "intelligences," according to the theory of multiple intelligences advanced by Professor Howard Gardner of Harvard University ... The old idea that a person's potential in life can be measured and predicted by a single number - his or her "IQ" score - has lost a great deal of credibility during the last decade or so."
https://www.karlalbrecht.com/siprofile/siprofiletheory.htm

Moral intelligence/integrity are heavily influenced by worldview and will.

If I believe that human beings are created in the image and potential of a Supreme Being, my respect for/expectations of/interactions with human beings improve accordingly.

If I believe that human beings are evolved pond scum, my attitudes toward/opinions of/experiences with human beings decline considerably.

BS. The belief in a supreme being has been the single biggest reason humans kill each other en mass. For ten thousand years humans have been killing each other over whose god is the greatest. Christians have been the worst offenders (possibly because they are 800 years older than Islam)

 

[MHz]

Neither, I'm referencing the entire species. The rest of your post is incoherent gibberish.

If there were a Supreme Being of the sort you're promoting it could magic up anything it wanted, but there isn't, there's just us, we're on our own here. And I have no "sustainable development" philosophy, there's no such thing as "sustainable development." The ultimate end for all species is extinction, over 90% of the species that have ever lived are extinct and eventually homo sapiens will be too. We've got a few years yet, most species last for at least a few million years and we've had only 100 to 200 thousand so far, but eventually we'll be gone.

So much for your ability to read and understand all things.
The whole planet will be uninhabitable at some point in the future due to outside forces.
Right now the question would be 'Does many people living in close quarters when food and shelter is plentiful end up living in anger all the time or do they learn to get along and make great strides in all areas of life and the theme, 'many hands make the task at hand light work' is the rule rather than the exception.

You are referenced forced extermination being an option in the table. Say perhaps using such parameters as wearing shoes. Ig you do you stay alive and if you are too poor to afford shoes you die. Something like that is already in the works, that doesn't make it the best plan available by a long shot.
If humans of today are the result of adaptation to local climates then what will the future bring if the current rate of change continued?? Here is one version.

[youtube]JJ4lj269BCo[/youtube]

 

[Dexter Sinister]

If I believe that human beings are created in the image and potential of a Supreme Being, my respect for/expectations of/interactions with human beings improve accordingly.

If I believe that human beings are evolved pond scum, my attitudes toward/opinions of/experiences with human beings decline considerably.

The evidence strongly indicates the latter belief is the correct one, there's no evidence at all for the former, but what possible difference could human origins make to your assessment of our current value? You're essentially just saying you believe what you believe because it makes you feel better, which is possibly the lamest of reasons to believe anything. The only justification for believing anything is the evidence for it.

You are referenced forced extermination being an option in the table. ]

Straw man fallacy, I made no such reference.

 

[Motar]

If I believe that human beings are created in the image and potential of a Supreme Being, my respect for/expectations of/interactions with human beings improve accordingly. If I believe that human beings are evolved pond scum, my attitudes toward/opinions of/experiences with human beings decline considerably.

Cliffy and Dex,

Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you. If you or someone else regards you as evolved pond scum with corresponding self-respect and self-motivation, who has the higher opinion of you?

 

[MHz]

Straw man fallacy, I made no such reference.

If I took this out of context forgive me. "there's no such thing as "sustainable development."" as I take it to mean the whole society is treated as being worthy of living a 'comfortable life'. There is a philosophy that exists today that promote 4B could die and the rest would live as if nothing had changed. At some point a society could cause it's own demise through their own fault, with or without intention.

In this example let's keep the current population alive and move winter into the north and south regions so that people are forced to move into areas where there are larger and larger groups who are all getting the basics of life without any struggle involved. Would they co-op on things so that 10,000 years later there was one language and that would be the beginning of progression to some unknown end. You seem to promote that we would extinct ourselves and I don't see it that way if food and shelter are not an issue for the whole group. That could be explored using current events. Baffin Correctional Center was know for overcrowding and violence and anger issues with the inmates.
If that was caused by overcrowding then other places with overcrowding and no mold issues would support that summation. If the opposite is true and the places that best mimicked BFC were places with mould problems but no overcrowding.

 

[darkbeaver]

Neither, I'm referencing the entire species. The rest of your post is incoherent gibberish.

If there were a Supreme Being of the sort you're promoting it could magic up anything it wanted, but there isn't, there's just us, we're on our own here. And I have no "sustainable development" philosophy, there's no such thing as "sustainable development." The ultimate end for all species is extinction, over 90% of the species that have ever lived are extinct and eventually homo sapiens will be too. We've got a few years yet, most species last for at least a few million years and we've had only 100 to 200 thousand so far, but eventually we'll be gone.

We,ve always been here, right from the beginning. Every bit of us except perhaps the power of reasoning, the practice of which is Being Supreme.

I never ate a chimp. Do they taste like chicken?

Never ate chimp either,don't think I could unless there was no choice. Like eating a relative, exactly like it. Some of my relatives bear a striking resemblance. The hairy ones with odd thumbs.

 

[MHz]

French in other words eh?

 

[darkbeaver]

French in other words eh?

SSSHHHHHHHHHHHH don't start anything.

 

[bluebyrd35]

Cliffy and Dex,

Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you. If you or someone else regards you as evolved pond scum with corresponding self-respect and self-motivation, who has the higher opinion of you?

Hmmm.....so your notion of a supreme being can be a bald, wrinkled, fat, male or female ape type critter, with no control over it's appetites, feelings or behavior much of the time. It can be a wrinkled babe with no control over it's body or an aged wrinkle person also with no control over it's body!!

Sorry but that is darned hard to accept and gives neither the supreme being nor the human being much to look forward to really, now does it?

 

[Motar]

Hmmm.....so your notion of a supreme being can be a bald, wrinkled, fat, male or female ape type critter, with no control over it's appetites, feelings or behavior much of the time. It can be a wrinkled babe with no control over it's body or an aged wrinkle person also with no control over it's body!!

Sorry but that is darned hard to accept and gives neither the supreme being nor the human being much to look forward to really, now does it?

No, those are your notions, BB. You painted the picture above and signed my name to it.

 

[bluebyrd35]

No, those are your notions, BB. You painted the picture above and signed my name to it.

Do you or do you not believe we are made in the image of God?? I quote you:-"Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you.'' There is no IF before your statement. You signed your own name to that statement. I simply followed the idea through to it's logical conclusion.
'
Myself, I believe we developed from a series of evolutionary steps over a long period of time. This is how all species on earth have developed and are continuing to do so.

 

[Ludlow]

Do you or do you not believe we are made in the image of God?? I quote you:-"Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you.'' There is no IF before your statement. You signed your own name to that statement. I simply followed the idea through to it's logical conclusion.
'
Myself, I believe we developed from a series of evolutionary steps over a long period of time. This is how all species on earth have developed and are continuing to do so.

We all have our beliefs. But the truth is concerning all these beliefs is that all of them are theories in our minds. Fact is none of us know anything one way or the other.

 

[Motar]

Do you or do you not believe we are made in the image of God?? I quote you:-"Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you.'' There is no IF before your statement. You signed your own name to that statement. I simply followed the idea through to it's logical conclusion.
'
Myself, I believe we developed from a series of evolutionary steps over a long period of time. This is how all species on earth have developed and are continuing to do so.

Logic had its flaws, BB.

 

[bluebyrd35]

Logic had its flaws, BB.

Really?? I would say logic has a heck of a lot less flaws than beliefs brewed in the imagination of barely civilized tribal priests.. At least logic is based on facts one has observed or deducted for themselves.

Ludlow, of course we all have our beliefs that is exactly the point. Using those beliefs in a discussion as truth or without a smidgen of logic, loses the debate.

 

[Motar]

Really??I would say logic has a heck of a lot less flaws than beliefs brewed in the imagination of barely civilized tribal priests. At least logic is based on facts one has observed or deducted for themselves.

A partial list of recognized logical fallacies:

Master List of Logical Fallacies

Logic has its flaws, bb.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Cliffy and Dex,

Continuing Cliffy's morality discussion, I believe that you are both created in the image of the Supreme Being and I have corresponding respect for and expectations of you. If you or someone else regards you as evolved pond scum with corresponding self-respect and self-motivation, who has the higher opinion of you?

Being evolved from pond scum doesn't imply I have the self-respect and self-motivation corresponding to pond scum, that's a senseless argument. Your or anyone else's opinion of me should be based on who and what I am now, not where I came from, that's the root of many kinds of prejudicial judgments. Or I could argue the other way. It's a long, hard, and complex, road from pond scum to a human being, you should hold me in higher regard for having made it than if I were just magicked up by the Supreme Being out of nothing.

Logic has its flaws, bb.

Chief among them being that you can't use logic to argue with someone who's abandoned the use of logic.

 

[darkbeaver]

I come away from the preceding bit curious about the self motivation of pond scum. Certainly there shoulld be some studies to look at. What makes it get up in the morning?

 

[Ludlow]

I come away from the preceding bit curious about the self motivation of pond scum. Certainly there shoulld be some studies to look at. What makes it get up in the morning?

Pond scum can be fried with okra and eggs and wrapped in a tortilla.

 

[darkbeaver]

Pond scum can be fried with okra and eggs and wrapped in a tortilla.

I'am not a bit surprized. Ducks like it. Why has got got such a bad name? I'll google for recipes later. I can't wait to taste it. It's probably a super food. Already digested and everything. When the best time to skim your pond? When is the preferred havest particulars? I've made a note to persue this subject to it's logical conclusion.

Returning to the religious flavour of the thread.lat Re ligio (sp) return to beginning, let the circle be unbroken, life in the spiritual world death in the material, we are the dead