The Official Canadian Electoral Reform Thread

[Tonington]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

Given the massive amounts of poverty, pollution and oppression there I'd hardly call China a success in that department.

If you follow the conversation, it goes back to socialism and Italy hanging onto a thread economically. I don't think anyone could doubt the economic clout that China has built in the last couple decades.

As to the equality of opportunities, pollution, and human rights abuses, absolutely, China is awful and I wouldn't want to be in the unfortunate circumstances that some are in.

I don't really want to derail this thread any further though, it's supposed to be about electoral reform. I'd be OK with proportional. Might even make the politicians act more like adults, when it becomes much more difficult for one party to rule outright.

 

[taxslave]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

If you follow the conversation, it goes back to socialism and Italy hanging onto a thread economically. I don't think anyone could doubt the economic clout that China has built in the last couple decades.

As to the equality of opportunities, pollution, and human rights abuses, absolutely, China is awful and I wouldn't want to be in the unfortunate circumstances that some are in.

I don't really want to derail this thread any further though, it's supposed to be about electoral reform. I'd be OK with proportional. Might even make the politicians act more like adults, when it becomes much more difficult for one party to rule outright.

Or it could just cause gridlock and nothing of importance gets done. Politicians are not known to play well with others unless there is personal gain. WHat's good for the country is not on their top ten list.

 

[captain morgan]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

Or it could just cause gridlock and nothing of importance gets done. Politicians are not known to play well with others unless there is personal gain. WHat's good for the country is not on their top ten list.

Absolutely.

None of the politicos will take a chance on offending their voter-base, thereby getting the boot. Nothing of consequence (excepting the vote on giving the MPs raises) will ever get accomplished.

This is the same logic of the old safety joke: 'No one works, no one gets hurt'

 

[Tonington]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

Or it could just cause gridlock and nothing of importance gets done.

Lots of other countries manage. I don't think we would be particularly special.

 

[Colpy]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

China.

Yeah right....if you don't mind 50 to 70 million dead, and absolutely no individual rights.

 

[taxslave]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

Lots of other countries manage. I don't think we would be particularly special.

When BC was having the discussions on a different voting system I was fairly involved in the process. Lots of systems were looked at. All have pros and cons. Can't remember now why the STV was chosen by the committee but it was rejected by the electorate.FPP has certain advantages in that it is fair and easy to see who got what. And perhaps more important to a lot of people they know who represents their area.
After that rather lengthy and somewhat expensive process I sort of lost interest in changing the system in part because the losers will always say it is't fair.
N'

 

[JLM]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

From Fair Vote Canada






NDP Democratic Reform Critic Craig Scott will introduce the following motion for PR to the House of Commons tomorrow afternoon (Wednesday December 3).
That, in the opinion of the House: (a) the next federal election should be the last conducted under the current first-past-the-post electoral system which has repeatedly delivered a majority of seats to parties supported by a minority of voters, or under any other winner-take-all electoral system; and (b) a form of mixed-member proportional representation would be the best electoral system for Canada."
There will be a two-hour debate 3:15 to 5:30 EST. The vote will occur at 6:45 PM EST

We need you to contact your MP now! Find your MP's phone number and email here. (link is external)


The NDP has committed to implementing Mixed Member Proportional Representation if elected in 2015, with an all-party and citizen task force to create the best design. MMP with open, regional lists (meaning, all MPs are elected by voters and all MPs are local) is the model recommended in 2004 by the Law Commission of Canada (link is external). Eight provincial commissions have also recommended MMP.

The Green Party also supports implementing proportional representation before 2019.
The Liberal Party of Canada is calling for an all-party process involving citizens and experts to look at all electoral reform options - including other winner-take-all systems and proportional systems - in the first 12 months following the 2015 election.

Background:


There are two major families of voting systems in the world: Proportional, and Winner-take-all ("majoritarian/plurality"). All evidence indicates that to replace one winner-take-all voting system with another is simply to replicate almost every problem we face now with first-past-the-post. 10 commissions, 14 years of polls, and decades of research says Canada needs a more proportional solution.


Proportional representation is based on a couple of key principles:


a) Voter equality - your vote should count towards electing a representative you want, and

b) if a party earns 30% of the popular vote, they should earn roughly 30% of the seats.

There are a variety of ways proportional representation could be designed for Canada. Fair Vote Canada does not endorse only one proportional system.Regardless of whether your MP supports Mixed Member Proportional in particular, please urge them to vote YES to this motion if they support the premise that every vote should count. Amendments to motions are possible and a yes vote to this motion will open the door for a process to design the best electoral system for Canada, consistent with Fair Vote Canada's 2015 campaign. Achieving PR will require parties working together in an all party process.

This motion is a reflection of the momentum that is building across the country for votes that count. We need as many MPs to speak in favour of proportional representation as possible to move this issue forward now.Please take a moment to let your MP (link is external) know that you want him or her to be a strong voice for proportional representation.


Thank you for helping us Make 2015 the Last Unfair Election!

That system was investigated and discussed years ago and it was found that first past the post is the best system all around, too bad the N.D.P. didn't get the message.

Looks like Cannuck is stupider than the N.D.P. but I already knew that! .............Putzish!

 

[JamesBondo]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

I don't trust them. They claim to represent the working class family, but they sure as hell aren't representing them when they go after law abiding duck hunters for the sins of inner city street gangs.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

I see proportional representation as a Special Olympic Gold Medal for parties (like Green) who will never hold power. Because of this, the people who vote for these splinter parties think its unfair and that the majority should bend to their will. It makes voting simple, because you won't really need to anymore, because your agenda (the one you voted for) will be anchored by a perpetual minority style government.

 

[JamesBondo]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

I see proportional representation as a Special Olympic Gold Medal for parties (like Green) who will never hold power. Because of this, the people who vote for these splinter parties think its unfair and that the majority should bend to their will. It makes voting simple, because you won't really need to anymore, because your agenda (the one you voted for) will be anchored by a perpetual minority style government.

I couldn't agree more. What doesnt impress me, is the notion that splinter groups that are a mere fraction to the green party could also be taking up space in parliment. What a calosal waste of tax payer money. Im am all for special interest think tank groups, but they should not be expecting to form government.

 

[whitedog]

Re: NDP has committed to Proportional Representation if elected in 2015

I couldn't agree more. What doesnt impress me, is the notion that splinter groups that are a mere fraction to the green party could also be taking up space in parliment. What a calosal waste of tax payer money. Im am all for special interest think tank groups, but they should not be expecting to form government.

The unfortunate situation we face is the party line, as if to say, "my party's shat don't stink, never, ever". It would be alot less expensive, if we only elected 3 or 4 folk to lead. Just think of the savings. The way things are now, we've elected over 300, but only 3 or folk lead (their party) and one leads both party and country. Our system precludes folk acting in the best interests of the country as a whole, in favour of the party's interest.

The notion that over 300 individuals can't act collectively in the best interests of the country comes from the party system, not from any fact. Honest education of the masses (starting from childhood) would be a better approach to cooperative government, as opposed to ignorance, innuendo and short term bribery.

 

[Locutus]

Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

another story spiked by media party until after the election natch.








Globe Politics Verified account ‏@globepolitics

Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish, experts say https://t.co/g8gzzOh93s #cdnpoli


Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, fresh off a commanding election win, has promised that Monday’s vote will be the last under Canada’s first-past-the-post electoral system.

After the election of a second-consecutive majority government with less than 40 per cent of the popular vote, calls for democratic reform seem to be gaining momentum. But some observers have suggested the idea may stall over public opinion and disagreement among those pushing for change.


more reality here


Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish, experts say - The Globe and Mail

 

[DaSleeper]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

 

[PoliticalNick]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Any major and worthwhile reform requires constitutional ammendment....ain't gonna happen. Besides that our current system protects and favors the big 3 parties and I just don't see them cutting their own throats.

 

[Jinentonix]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

Any major and worthwhile reform requires constitutional ammendment....ain't gonna happen. Besides that our current system protects and favors the big 3 parties and I just don't see them cutting their own throats.

Of course not. And neither will their supporters whine about it either. I mean it's going to be REAL interesting to see just how many libtard commenters who had a problem with the math in 2009 will kvetch about Trudeau's govt not being a true majority and he therefore doesn't speak for the majority of Canadians.

 

[taxslave]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

THe simplest solution is to just go back to the two party system. Always have a majority that way.

 

[tay]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

another story spiked by media party until after the election natch.



Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau, fresh off a commanding election win, has promised that Monday’s vote will be the last under Canada’s first-past-the-post electoral system.

After the election of a second-consecutive majority government with less than 40 per cent of the popular vote, calls for democratic reform seem to be gaining momentum. But some observers have suggested the idea may stall over public opinion and disagreement among those pushing for change.


more reality here


Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish, experts say - The Globe and Mail

I guess you could say that 'the media spiked' this subject in favour of the 'niqab' issue but we must ask, who fed the media the bylines and why wouldn't they go with the more outrageous blurps from those who uttered them than the stimulating subject of FPTP....

 

[mentalfloss]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

It's only as difficult as the Liberals want to make it.

If they try to put it to a vote or through a referendum then it may not pass.

But they don't need to do either.

They were given a majority mandate and this was part of the platform so they can just research the one they think is best and go with it. The only thing stopping them is their desire to hold on to power after the next election and even that may not be at risk after this decision.

 

[Cliffy]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

 

[Curious Cdn]

Re: Trudeau’s electoral-reform pledge will be hard to accomplish

... how about impossible to accomplish.

Anyway, his taste for messing with the system that brought him to power out of nowhere so decisively may be fading as we post.