JustinTrudeau says abortion rights are guaranteed by the Charter — he's dead wrong

DaSleeper

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May 27, 2007
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The "courts" don't make law, nor should they be allowed to. This one line shows your ignorance in a nut shell.
They have a book for that....





And there is also an app that would work well......for him...... "Arguing with myself"
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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The Conservatives would open the topic if it could win them elections, but it usually hurts Conservatives. Maybe Trudeau is banking on that fact. I don't see it getting much traction. I think the electorate is tired of hearing about it, no matter who brings it up.



The difference being the US second amendment is unequivocal. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. The Charter, on the other hand, is dithering. All rights and freedoms are guaranteed within "reasonable* limits".

*reason to be determined as politically expedient

Dead on.
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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I can see the value in it.

We don't allow racists or pedophiles, so why should we allow prolifers?

Let Harper deal with them.

So those Liberals that are Pro Life vote for Harper. That would give him another majority.
Are you in favor of late term abortion past 6 months?
Abortion based upon sex selection?
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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The "courts" don't make law, nor should they be allowed to. This one line shows your ignorance in a nut shell.

Duh no Sh*t

my point was that if they won't do their job then somebody needs to.

If the politicians don't want to do their job, you honestly can't expect the public to do it for them without it turning into one big cluster fk of a mess where one group will continually disagree with the other.

While the courts would be the more logical step.

And they do make laws in a way by looking at certain cases that are thrown to them, reviewing existing laws and current charter or constitutional rights and making final decisions that the nation generally adhere to.

This is exactly one of those times where before they addressed the abortion issue, women had to deal with a certain process.... and now they don't.

Then you will also have situations where politicians will try and pass a new law (make them as you say) but then the courts can and will inform them that they can't make that law due to specific infringements (either done on their own or by someone in the public using the courts to challenge.

So depending on how you look at it, they kind of do.

The supreme court made the decisions in the original abortion case we're all using for our arguments, which since then, everyone has adhered to.... Then they left the other section to the politicians which didn't want to touch it.

..... Or we can go ask the Queen.

So go shove your ignorance in a nutshell.

Justin is such a loser.

Any culture that sacrifices its own children to some corrupt ideological proposition.. is a culture without a future. We've become a civilization that is based on blood sacrifice.. and like the Aztecs and will become a hollow shell, unsustainable and ripe for conquest.

Pfft.... Drama Queen much?

You dismissing half the SCC's rulling with a "but" and grabbing onto the other half as if it had come down from on high shows YOUR bias. The SCC only hears challenges of existing laws. Therefore no "prolifer" could go to the courts and challenge a law that does not exist. Again, your ignorance is being shouted from the mountain peaks.

As Colpy has already pointed out, we have not had a politician, and it is more like a group of politicians, with the cojones to introduce the legislation and then have it passed into law.

As for your "facts", if there are no "facts" supporting the "prolife" position on when "life" begins, then there is also no support for the abortionists view.

As for me, I have no problem being blunt.

The support for an abortionist's view is called an encyclopaedia and a dictionary.... Google either.

The support for a pro-lifers view is called a Bible and cultist web sites that base their arguments on emotional jibber jabber.... Google that too while you're at it.

They have a book for that....





And there is also an app that would work well......for him...... "Arguing with myself"

Oh wonderful, let's use Glen Beck of all people for our arguments.

Yes it's all about Big Government controlling our lives here.... Let's keep the government out of the abortion debate and let the public settle it on their own terms.... That will go wonderfully with all the rioting, shootings and bombings.

Yeah, it's all about my ignorance for speaking my own opinion, while we all ignore the flaws in arguments from people who use a lunatic US pundit to make their final case for them.

*clal clap* bravo.
 

Praxius

Mass'Debater
Dec 18, 2007
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I has only been decriminalized. How does decriminalization amount to a right?

Ah so the courts "decriminalised" abortion.... Yet you guys will say that the courts don't make laws.

Decriminalization is not a right.... What's being discussed are the basic human Rights of a human being being infringed upon, which have already been clearly explained in this thread.

I have the right to determine what happens to my body, i have the right to refuse treatments, and i have a bunch of other rights too. If you try to make something law that infringes upon those rights, then that's where the problem lies.

Nobody said anything about something being legal or not is equal to being a human right.

ffs keep up.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Decriminalization is not a right.... What's being discussed are the basic human Rights of a human being being infringed upon, which have already been clearly explained in this thread.

.


I see you need to revisit the SCC ruling already.
 

Praxius

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Dec 18, 2007
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Human being | Define Human being at Dictionary.com

Human Being

— n
a member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child

^ No mention of Fetus, Embryo or Egg.


Human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They are "commonly understood as inalienable fundamental rights to which a person is inherently entitled simply because she or he is a human being."

For Human Being, refer back to the first link.

The term "Life" applies to just about everything that isn't an inanimate object.... Human Rights are applied to Human Beings.

Case closed.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Human being | Define Human being at Dictionary.com

Human Being

— n
a member of any of the races of Homo sapiens; person; man, woman, or child

^ No mention of Fetus, Embryo or Egg.


Human rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



For Human Being, refer back to the first link.

The term "Life" applies to just about everything that isn't an inanimate object.... Human Rights are applied to Human Beings.

Case closed.


Cool, you quote an online dictionary and wikipedia, obviously your sources are so much better than mine. After all, I just linked to Princeton University and Medical Doctors. Why didn't I think of a dictionary and wikipedia? :roll:
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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We don't need any science for this one, it only makes common sense. As I've said before there is nothing alive that was ever dead. Don't know why people would have a problem with that! -:)

No, they rule on laws that our Parliament and legislators pass. The SCC can not "make" new laws.

Supreme Court of Canada: Role, History, and Operation | Mapleleafweb.com

And for good reason- avoid conflict of interest! (No rocket science there, either) -:)
 

Corduroy

Senate Member
Feb 9, 2011
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So those Liberals that are Pro Life vote for Harper. That would give him another majority.

Unlikely. Most people don't make their voting choices on this issue. Abortion is not really a policy debate in Canada like it is in the United States. There's very little question about introducing abortion law. It's used primarily as a rhetorical point, and a rhetorical point that's almost exclusively used against Conservatives. If Pro-life Liberals would vote Conservative because the Liberals became exclusively pro-choice, they'd probably be voting Conservative already. Everybody knows that the Liberal party will never introduce abortion restrictions. If it's such an important issue to them, they'd vote for the party most likely to do anything about. As it is, even the Conservative party, though pro-life in the public eye, is unlikely to touch it. Their strategists stay the hell away from abortion as much as possible because they know it will only hurt them.
 

JLM

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Nov 27, 2008
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Unlikely. Most people don't make their voting choices on this issue. Abortion is not really a policy debate in Canada like it is in the United States. There's very little question about introducing abortion law. It's used primarily as a rhetorical point, and a rhetorical point that's almost exclusively used against Conservatives. If Pro-life Liberals would vote Conservative because the Liberals became exclusively pro-choice, they'd probably be voting Conservative already. Everybody knows that the Liberal party will never introduce abortion restrictions. If it's such an important issue to them, they'd vote for the party most likely to do anything about. As it is, even the Conservative party, though pro-life in the public eye, is unlikely to touch it. Their strategists stay the hell away from abortion as much as possible because they know it will only hurt them.

With the birth rate way down and the population of seniors way up and the fact that seniors are the demographic with the biggest representation at the polls, it would make sense that the abortion issue is "small potatoes" come election day. It's the seniors that the politicians want to avoid pissing off. -:)
 

Colpy

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Nov 5, 2005
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Unlikely. Most people don't make their voting choices on this issue. Abortion is not really a policy debate in Canada like it is in the United States. There's very little question about introducing abortion law. It's used primarily as a rhetorical point, and a rhetorical point that's almost exclusively used against Conservatives. If Pro-life Liberals would vote Conservative because the Liberals became exclusively pro-choice, they'd probably be voting Conservative already. Everybody knows that the Liberal party will never introduce abortion restrictions. If it's such an important issue to them, they'd vote for the party most likely to do anything about. As it is, even the Conservative party, though pro-life in the public eye, is unlikely to touch it. Their strategists stay the hell away from abortion as much as possible because they know it will only hurt them.

Once again, dead on.

Although it is possible that with other options unavailable, those that are driven by the issue could drift to the Conservatives, influencing the nomination of candidates, and slowly the abortion issue could become more prominent in Conservative politics.....but that will not happen immediately, or before the next election, or while Harper is leader.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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You might want to rethink that ideal.

There is a reason - huge one - why the leaders of many/most Western democracies avoid this issue like the plague, and it has everything to do with electoral support


To rethink, she would need to be able to think in the first place.


Unlikely. Most people don't make their voting choices on this issue. Abortion is not really a policy debate in Canada like it is in the United States. There's very little question about introducing abortion law. It's used primarily as a rhetorical point, and a rhetorical point that's almost exclusively used against Conservatives. If Pro-life Liberals would vote Conservative because the Liberals became exclusively pro-choice, they'd probably be voting Conservative already. Everybody knows that the Liberal party will never introduce abortion restrictions. If it's such an important issue to them, they'd vote for the party most likely to do anything about. As it is, even the Conservative party, though pro-life in the public eye, is unlikely to touch it. Their strategists stay the hell away from abortion as much as possible because they know it will only hurt them.


If people don't make their voting choice based on abortion, then why would the strategist stay away from the issue? Maybe, because, people make their voting choices based on this issue. dumb-a$$.