Christianity and Religion

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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I don't believe that. And I can assure you I am just as certain of what I believe to be true as you are, and I believe you are exactly as wrong as you believe I am. If he exists, which I don't believe, he knows where to find me if he wants to tell me something. I grew up in a Christian household, I spent a good part of my early life looking, and never found anything, and now I am apostate and prefer to stay that way.
Luke 18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up. 2 He said: “In a certain town there was a judge who neither feared God nor cared what people thought. 3 And there was a widow in that town who kept coming to him with the plea, ‘Grant me justice against my adversary.’
4 “For some time he refused. But finally he said to himself, ‘Even though I don’t fear God or care what people think, 5 yet because this widow keeps bothering me, I will see that she gets justice, so that she won’t eventually come and attack me!’”
6 And the Lord said, “Listen to what the unjust judge says. 7 And will not God bring about justice for his chosen ones, who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off? 8 I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?”

The only sin is the sin of self hatred. Guilt is a form of self hatred. If you believe you are capable of sinning, the fault lies with the designer.
Cliffy,
Do you really mean the ONLY sin is self hatred? What about murder, theft, hatred, envy, and the sins of omission (walking by a homeless person and not helping, not searching out those in need to meet their needs, etc.) I would think guilt (conscience) makes for a nice gauge. I think I should "hate" myself if I march through life passing by the less fortunate. That would be a proper thought. What kind of a jerk would see an old lady fall down and not help her up? Is child abuse not sin? Is ripping off taxpayers not sin?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Cliffy,
Do you really mean the ONLY sin is self hatred? What about murder, theft, hatred, envy, and the sins of omission (walking by a homeless person and not helping, not searching out those in need to meet their needs, etc.) I would think guilt (conscience) makes for a nice gauge. I think I should "hate" myself if I march through life passing by the less fortunate. That would be a proper thought. What kind of a jerk would see an old lady fall down and not help her up? Is child abuse not sin? Is ripping off taxpayers not sin?
Those that commit crimes don't feel guilt. They are missing a few chromosomes or something. It is not your concern to worry about stuff that is outside your realm of influence. So sometimes you are so self absorbed that you neglect to do what, in hind sight, you should have done (helped the old lady up off the sidewalk). You can't carry the burden of the world on your shoulders every waking minute. You deel with others with compassion but you still have to feed yourself and your family.

Why feel guilty is you are doing your best. If you know right from wrong and you try to do right, what do you need to feel guilty about. You help out when you can and don't worry about other people's karma.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Luke 18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up...
Okay, as long as you think it's legitimate to cite texts from a superstitious, pre-literate, pre-scientific age in support of your position, try 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

If you follow that advice, and understand the rules of evidence and logic, and have the critical thinking tools some of our brightest minds have worked out over the last few centuries for testing the truth content of claims, and you reason honestly, being mindful of the many well known ways human perception and cognition can go astray, you will arrive at the atheist position.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
113,577
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Low Earth Orbit
Pre-scientific? Superstitious?

Do you really believe people were stupid back then?

1 in 5 are expecting an alien invasion. Are you one of them?

What's your take on alchemy?
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
740
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Okay, as long as you think it's legitimate to cite texts from a superstitious, pre-literate, pre-scientific age in support of your position, try 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

If you follow that advice, and understand the rules of evidence and logic, and have the critical thinking tools some of our brightest minds have worked out over the last few centuries for testing the truth content of claims, and you reason honestly, being mindful of the many well known ways human perception and cognition can go astray, you will arrive at the atheist position.
Dexter,
Instead of quoting from as you say a "preliterate, pre-sceintific" text I will only speak from what is in my brain. Things my get ugly. :)
I mean no disrespect to you. Thought we were just chatting.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
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bliss
Okay, as long as you think it's legitimate to cite texts from a superstitious, pre-literate, pre-scientific age in support of your position, try 1 Thessalonians 5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

If you follow that advice, and understand the rules of evidence and logic, and have the critical thinking tools some of our brightest minds have worked out over the last few centuries for testing the truth content of claims, and you reason honestly, being mindful of the many well known ways human perception and cognition can go astray, you will arrive at the atheist position.



hmmm.... so anyone who doesn't arrive at the same conclusion s you is just doing it wrong?
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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hmmm.... so anyone who doesn't arrive at the same conclusion s you is just doing it wrong?
All my life I've been told by believers, including several in this thread, that if I do this and that and thus and so I'll end up in the same place they're at, why shouldn't I take the same attitude?
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
27,780
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All my life I've been told by believers, including several in this thread, that if I do this and that and thus and so I'll end up in the same place they're at, why shouldn't I take the same attitude?

Yeah, fair enough. It's just unusual for you to take that tact rather than actually mean what you're writing. Carry on :)
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Well, a process like I described *will* be pretty corrosive to a lot of religious claims, which is more or less what's happened in the western world over the last few centuries as the church has been forced to retreat from making certain claims in the face of the scientific revolution. I'm also inclined to think it's responsible for the loss of much of the church's secular power. But it won't resolve the ultimate questions, they're not really amenable to the process, and I don't know any method that could resolve them.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Well, a process like I described *will* be pretty corrosive to a lot of religious claims, which is more or less what's happened in the western world over the last few centuries as the church has been forced to retreat from making certain claims in the face of the scientific revolution. I'm also inclined to think it's responsible for the loss of much of the church's secular power. But it won't resolve the ultimate questions, they're not really amenable to the process, and I don't know any method that could resolve them.


No it won't. I believe in God, I believe in Jesus Christ and I believe in the Holy Ghost. I also believe in the Big Bang, and evolution. I believe the world is Billions of years old and I know that none of that takes away from my belief and Faith in God.

The physical world is separate from the "spiritual" world. Just because you can't understand, or reconcile "God", doesn't mean there are some that can't. It doesn't mean that he isn't real. It just means you can't understand it at this time.
 

cj44

Electoral Member
Sep 18, 2013
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Well, a process like I described *will* be pretty corrosive to a lot of religious claims, which is more or less what's happened in the western world over the last few centuries as the church has been forced to retreat from making certain claims in the face of the scientific revolution. I'm also inclined to think it's responsible for the loss of much of the church's secular power. But it won't resolve the ultimate questions, they're not really amenable to the process, and I don't know any method that could resolve them.
Dexter, Did your perspective come about because nothing is logical about any religion or specifically Christianity? Do you find any religion to be more plausable over the others?
 

Motar

Council Member
Jun 18, 2013
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The need of the hour is to distinguish and differentiate between "religion" and Christianity. Christianity is NOT Religion What is religion? Was Jesus Christ religious? Is Christianity a religion?

Religion:
"Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 'Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” (Matthew 15:1-2 NIV)

Christianity:
"Jesus replied, 'And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition." (Matthew 15:3-6 NIV)

The gospel of Matthew was written for the religious Jews. Here is one more example of religion bumping up against Christianity. Religion such as this rejects Christ and seeks to discredit Christianity.