Palestinian - Why Mahmoud Abbas’s U.N. statehood bid is great for Israel -- and the U

[petros]

Using the term Zionist shows where your opinion rests.

How so? Hamas is a far right orangization of extremists just as equal to the Ulra-Zionist Haredi. The army has to protect Christian Holy sites and pilgrams as if it they were airports. It's not to protect them from Muzzies, it's to protect them and the sites from the Haredi wingnuts. In another 20-30 years they will be the majority. They train their kids the same way Muzzie wingnuts and Christian wingnut survivalists do.

Keeping things on a level playing field is important.

 

[Goober]

How so? Hamas is a far right orangization of extremists just as equal to the Ulra-Zionist Haredi. The army has to protect Christian Holy sites and pilgrams as if it they were airports. It's not to protect them from Muzzies, it's to protect them and the sites from the Haredi wingnuts. In another 20-30 years they will be the majority. They train their kids the same way Muzzie wingnuts and Christian wingnut survivalists do.

Keeping things on a level playing field is important.

Not all Jews are Zionists.

 

[petros]

Not all Jews are Zionists.

The Christian Zionists make up the difference and then some and not all Muzzies in Palestine are Hamas. They call themselves Zionists because they are Zionists and not all Israelis are Zionists or Jews.

 

[MHz]

Give me level headed over your version of 'even handed'.

As to funding- When funds could have been diverted to Hamas – what would you expect- Other reasons it was witheld vary.

As I stated some of the settlements will close- not all- wait and see. The PA and the Israelis have settled the land issue to approx 96 %- Abbas has renounced the right of return – it would not be accepted by Israel-
So now it is Jerusalem. Where will it be divided.

So with-holding it from Hamas is with-holding it from a fairly elected Government, what Law supports that move and feel free to full expand on the other 'varied reason' because withholding electricity is most likely a war crime in the world's view.
Is Abbas speaking for all the current and past people the 'right to return' affects, if not he is acting as an Israeli stooge he should remember they really do kill people who commit treason. Is he going to rule from an Israeli protected enclave while living the life of the rich and famous?

 

[earth_as_one]

Not all Jews are Zionists.

and not all Zionists are Jews... Not all Zionists are Israelis. Obviously some are British, American and Canadian which explains our government's unshakable support for oppression and injustice.

If you like we could list all the attacks, killings and murders on both sides. But the root cause is Zionist ethnic cleansing which many Jews and Israelis don't support. I can point to many examples where Zionists have violently seized land to build Jewish only colonies from last week all the way back to 1947.

BTW, I could support Zionism if it was just a real estate transaction. I might even have donated money to the cause. But I can't support theft or murder. Which is why I don't support either side's war criminals...

How much more obvious does it have to get?

Dec 3, 2012
...populating E1 with Israelis would cut off East Jerusalem and carve up the West Bank, effectively thwarting any chance of viability for a Palestinian state and thereby extinguishing the Middle East peace process.

"This is not a routine settlement. This is the doomsday settlement," said Daniel Seidemann, the founder of Terrestrial Jerusalem, an Israeli non-governmental organisation that monitors urban development in and around the holy city.

"The message Israel should have learned from the U.N. vote is that we are on very thin ice," he added. "By threatening E1 you are standing on thin ice and jumping up and down."

That view is rejected by supporters of the project, who say construction is long overdue and represents natural expansion from the neighbouring Maale Adumim settlement - a city of red-roofed apartment blocks that is home to more than 30,000 people.

Over half a million Israelis now live on land taken in the 1967 Middle East war, claiming historical and biblical ties to territory that the Palestinians say belongs to them.

The E1 site covers only some 4.6 square miles (12 square km) but is geographically sensitive because it not only juts into the narrow "waist" of the West Bank, but also backs onto East Jerusalem, where Palestinians want to establish their capital...

'Doomsday' hill may be one Israeli settlement too far | Reuters

 

[earth_as_one]

Canada plays down Israeli settlement criticism:


Officially: "Canada believes that both Israel and the Palestinian Authority must fully respect international human rights and humanitarian law which is key to ensuring the protection of civilians, and can contribute to the creation of a climate conducive to achieving a just, lasting and comprehensive peace settlement."

But:
The Canadian Press asked Baird's spokesman in an email whether the government still held that view. The response was: "Unilateral actions on either side do not advance the peace process."

The spokesman declined a request to elaborate.

The head of Amnesty International Canada called on the government to speak more forcefully against the new settlement plan, as other countries are now doing.

"It's unfortunate to simply characterize this as being a unilateral action. These are human rights violations. These are breaches of international humanitarian law. This isn't simply deciding to do something unilaterally," said Alex Neve.

Given that Israel is making a deliberately timed settlement announcement, Neve said: "I think the response from Canada should be equally clear and not left to implicit interpretation as to what Canada is or is not saying, or is or is not concerned about."


Canada plays down Israeli settlement criticism, while U.S., Europe condemn

 

[MHz]

Canada and a few other better start recognizing Hamas as an authority and you can bet the ranch that the 'right to return' will be right neat the very top of their list. Abbas might be looking to retire before he gets to sign anything on the behalf of the citizens. Referendums are the rule when Britain gives a colony sovereignty over themselves.

It's going to be justice when Herper loses power because of his blind support for a Nation that the citizens don't blindly support also.

 

[Goober]

EAO

You made a comment earlier about the legally elected Govt- Hamas- I asked when were elections free there.
How did Hamas secure power after the election in Gaza.

How does a 2 State finale come into pay if Hamas will not accept it. If it comes down to it should the PLO- Arab league use force to attain a peace treaty with Israel?

 

[MHz]

They won fair and square, that is why Israel declared them a terrorist organization, talk about showing your true colors as a non-democratic Government in the area when Gaza has a better and fairer election. Pot, kettle, black.

 

[Goober]

They won fair and square, that is why Israel declared them a terrorist organization, talk about showing your true colors as a non-democratic Government in the area when Gaza has a better and fairer election. Pot, kettle, black.

Then they purged Fatah- And of course you are aware of that.

I am not alone in believing Hamas to be a terrorist Org. Nor are you alone in thinking they are not.

 

[MHz]

You have to do something more than win an election before being a terrorist, especially in your own land. What a surprise when the list is looked at. The US is the biggest terrorist organization the planet has ever known, be happy to print the whole list if you have any doubts. School of Americas does only one thing, train death squads that are the hallmark of any brutal dictatorship.

Just what would you have liked them to do when the defeated party refused to recognize the wishes of the majority of the people. 1 1/2 years after they won before they could actually rule, that is the democracy that Israel and the West promotes.

Since June 2007 Hamas has governed the Gaza portion of the Palestinian Territories, after it won a majority of seats in the Palestinian Parliament in the January 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections[7] and then defeated the Fatah political organization in a series of violent clashes. Israel, the United States,[8] Canada,[9] the European Union,[10][11] and Japan classify Hamas as a terrorist organization,[12][13] while Arab nations, Iran, Russia,[14] and Turkey[15] do not.

 

[earth_as_one]

You got it wrong Goober. RE: Hamas purged Fatah. Read the Vanity Fair article.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

The US and Israel backed Abbas with arms and money in support of his efforts to maintain his grip on power after he was voted out of office. Hamas won the election fair and square and the will of Palestinians should have been respected no matter how unpalatable.

 

[Goober]

You got it wrong Goober. RE: Hamas purged Fatah. Read the Vanity Fair article.
The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair

The US and Israel backed Abbas with arms and money in support of his efforts to maintain his grip on power after he was voted out of office. Hamas won the election fair and square and the will of Palestinians should have been respected no matter how unpalatable.

Read my post- it was clear- Hamas purged Fatah. What are you reading.

 

[earth_as_one]

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f.../04/gaza200804

 

[Goober]

You got it wrong Goober. RE: Hamas purged Fatah. Read the Vanity Fair article.
The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair

The US and Israel backed Abbas with arms and money in support of his efforts to maintain his grip on power after he was voted out of office. Hamas won the election fair and square and the will of Palestinians should have been respected no matter how unpalatable.

And any country including Israel can refuse to deal with them. Can isolate them. Cut all aid. Is that also not correct.

 

[earth_as_one]

That's true G, but when you ship arms to the election looser in order for them to maintain their grip on power by force, you can't claim to be a supporter of the democratic process. Israel and the US knew their actions would trigger a Palestinian civil war.

 

[Goober]

That's true G, but when you ship arms to the election looser in order for them to maintain their grip on power by force, you can't claim to be a supporter of the democratic process.

Since when did they have free elections In Palestine.

 

[earth_as_one]

In January 2006 the Palestinian Authority held legislative elections which international observers agreed to be free and fair with a turn-out of over 75% – higher than the turn-out in the last elections in the US or the UK. International observers’ only criticisms were on Israeli military travel restrictions and their refusal to allow voting in East Jerusalem. Hamas won 45 % of the vote and a majority of the seats in the legislative assembly compared to Fatah’s 42%. The victory for Hamas was partly due to corruption among Fatah officials who are accused of diverting government funds and aid into their own pockets. (1), (2), (3), (4),(5)....

(1) = Associated Press 26 Jan 2006 , ‘Hamas Wins Landslide 76 Seats’, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...26/international/i094327S41.DTL&feed=rss.news
(article cites corruption as mean reason Fatah lost) (2) = House of Commons Library Research Paper 06/17 ; 15 Mar 2006 , ‘The Palestinian Parliamentary Election and the rise of Hamas’, http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2006/rp06-017.pdf (see Section C, page 12 ‘Conduct of the Elections’ – also note the paper mistakenly gives the date of the elections as January 2005 – this must be a typo – the parliamentary elections were a year later)
(3) = Washington Post 27 Jan 2006, ‘Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast’, Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast
(4) = Palestinian legislative election, 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(5) = New York Times 25 Nov 2005 , ‘EU critical of Israelis on East Jerusalem’, The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

 

[Goober]

In January 2006 the Palestinian Authority held legislative elections which international observers agreed to be free and fair with a turn-out of over 75% – higher than the turn-out in the last elections in the US or the UK. International observers’ only criticisms were on Israeli military travel restrictions and their refusal to allow voting in East Jerusalem. Hamas won 45 % of the vote and a majority of the seats in the legislative assembly compared to Fatah’s 42%. The victory for Hamas was partly due to corruption among Fatah officials who are accused of diverting government funds and aid into their own pockets. (1), (2), (3), (4),(5)....

(1) = Associated Press 26 Jan 2006 , ‘Hamas Wins Landslide 76 Seats’, http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...26/international/i094327S41.DTL&feed=rss.news
(article cites corruption as mean reason Fatah lost) (2) = House of Commons Library Research Paper 06/17 ; 15 Mar 2006 , ‘The Palestinian Parliamentary Election and the rise of Hamas’, http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2006/rp06-017.pdf (see Section C, page 12 ‘Conduct of the Elections’ – also note the paper mistakenly gives the date of the elections as January 2005 – this must be a typo – the parliamentary elections were a year later)
(3) = Washington Post 27 Jan 2006, ‘Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast’, Hamas Sweeps Palestinian Elections, Complicating Peace Efforts in Mideast
(4) = Palestinian legislative election, 2006 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(5) = New York Times 25 Nov 2005 , ‘EU critical of Israelis on East Jerusalem’, The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia

Does that answer my question.

 

[MHz]

Yes it does, how many decades before you accept it?
"26 Jan 2006 , ‘Hamas Wins Landslide 76 Seats’"

Nor are you alone in thinking they are not.

Are you saying I support the nations listed below over Canada?
,,,,Arab nations, Iran, Russia, and Turkey,,,,,