What would YOU want to hear at church?

[JLM]

What I might like to hear at church might be that religion and Christianity has just been cancelled, discontinued, declared invalid, due to the number of hypocrites and imposters that ravage it for power, self importance and other nefarious ulterior motives! :lol:

 

[MHz]

Jesus defined that ''sword'' as the Holy Spirit, not a weapon: See Ephesians 6:10-17

It was updated, before Jesus His the Governments have authority to have one, the whole justice part of society is part of the sword.

Ro:13:4:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good.
But if thou do that which is evil,
be afraid;
for he beareth not the sword in vain:
for he is the minister of God,
a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

 

[Cannuck]

What I might like to hear at church might be that religion and Christianity has just been cancelled, discontinued, declared invalid, due to the number of hypocrites and imposters that ravage it for power, self importance and other nefarious ulterior motives! :lol:

What if you used the same standard for Cancon?

 

[MHz]

What I might like to hear at church might be that religion and Christianity has just been cancelled, discontinued, declared invalid, due to the number of hypocrites and imposters that ravage it for power, self importance and other nefarious ulterior motives! :lol:

Too late, that happened about 1,000 hours ago. I wonder when FOXABCMSBCBC is going to get around to covering it?

 

[JLM]

What if you used the same standard for Cancon?

One thing at a time!

 

[Cannuck]

One thing at a time!

I forgot, some folks have a problem with multi-tasking.

 

[MHz]

Still catching up? I just posted that to be annoying. lol

Now you tell me. Better late than never isn't always true.

 

[JLM]

I forgot, some folks have a problem with multi-tasking.

And most of the ones who don't screw it up! :roll:

 

[Dexter Sinister]

• I remain an unashamed young-earth six-day creationist!

Didn't learn much science getting your B.Sc. I see. There's nothing quite like religion for making people proudly and willfully ignorant.

 

[MHz]

Hmm...

Okay, how about this for starters:

When I was young, Anglo-American Evangelical/Baptist/Pentecostal types harped against masturbation.

They justified their position by referring to the story of Onan in the Book of Genesis Chapter 38. .....

...... What in the world does that have to do with masturbation?!? What I know is that if I'm trying to study scripture and my mind keeps drifting off to images of sexual hotties, that it helps me to get re-focused by taking the 15 minutes required to get bodily concerns out of my head.

The law you are looking for should be with all the other morality laws. If you are going to read the OT better plan on a few breaks then, Sampson's girlfriend was apparently quite appealing, no idea how long you will be gone over Lot's daughters seduce him after getting him drunk and thinking they were the last humans on earth. (was booze part of the 'get-bag'?)

Did you know that some of the extreme branches of Essene-Judaism forbade having a bowel movement on the Sabbath, because that was considered to be work by some of their Gamma-level leaders? Maybe they had low-fibre diets, such that constipation was the norm for the time, in which case a bowel movement could be thought of as work, but if a person has the trots, isn't it more work to hold it in?

Probably started by somebody with a 'cure' for constipation.

Another question I would ask is this:

Why in the world do Evangelical/Baptist/Pentacostalites get hung up on strict interpretation of the Creation story of Genesis, when it's already heck of a lot more in-line with what really happened than any other myth.

If they started to agree on 'little things' the may find they can then begin to agree on the 'bigger things'. I don't think the time between 70AD and 3 1'2 years before the end time has to be full of war and misery just because they are mentioned. Agreeing on the 70 weeks of Daniel being fully completed in length would cause chaos in most Churches, but then no more bickering and a clear understanding that the planet is one community that can get along to a certain extent or bicker endlessly, both lead to the same place, the grave.

Pretend you're Moses talking to God, getting ready to write the Pentateuch.

Still reading, is there an animated version slated for production, if so. make cilffy's avatar one of the 'talking heads'? Not saying it has to be God's face but leave the that option on the table but pay him and get a receipt if he wants to do one of the voices.

Couple of questions, for the 'stuff' at the beginning of the 300,000 years, could 'all matter seen and unseen be equal to the amount of mud the otter brought up in relation to the amount the Holy Spirit moved over 'the waters of the void' as part of the process that created heaven and earth? We we able to travel to that 'void' would we find it to be a hole (empty and very wide) or would it be a wall (too thick to go any further)? Would it be colder there than what we call deep space is?

Still reading, lol. Call me stupid but I might have to read it twice before it is in the memory banks.

Well... no, the sequence of events isn't right either, and it leaves out a lot of stuff we know exists but they didn't, like bacteria, which is still the dominant life form on the planet. But I'm sure your post is way too deep for the theists in this thread.

Not one complaint that contains a specific argument? The Bible doesn't promote life in the seas before plants existed, Ge:1 has that 'being so' by the end of day 3, that would make plant like more important than sea-life in the 'Terra-forming' the earth went through. If we were to colonize a barren world such as described in Ge:2 would we create seas or water vapor for plants? That also points to plants being the ones to get moisture and then rivers happened and they would have eventually created the seas and the 'soup' was all the stuff 'forests have' that wash away over time.

Adam got to name certain things and the Bible covers other things but nobody is claiming it is a complete list of all things created. God even lets us 'decide' if the creepy crawly things that inhabit the forests were in the forests helping with the 'reproduction' of trees just as they do in some cases today. If that is the case then the order is out when you look at what is mentioned before then which is all the great herds of 'beasts of the field' first being created. That seems to fit our 'scientific timeline' fairly closely so the mention of the creepy crawly things is based on them being the least important to the summation of creation. That would hold true for all the stars in heaven for the day time was created and the 5th day when birds and fish were the most important whales are also mentioned, the least important of the creatures named in the Bible on that specific day, yet whales are part of one story that helps to understand the very ending.

Under the old earth creation theory all life was fully covering the planet by the end of day 6 and it defined an area that can be called the 'inhabitable parts of His world'. If water was in liquid and vapor form at the end of day 2 at some point in the world, then it covered the globe to the extent it does today by the end of the 6th day, that covers from 40,000BC to 400M BC if I got the zero's right. I'm quite willing to admit there were some creepy-crawly things around when day 2 ended and some 'forests' existed and the very first birds were there and the first rivers would have been home to fish before the seas were. You complain that God didn't give enough information in Ge: 1 and 2 (to be believable), yet if I give you a page on the web that shows Ezekiel's temple is connected to the size of New Jerusalem and the cubit to give the circumference of the earth you say that is too much information (to be believable)

Having a pov like that is hardly a reason to be called a heretic but it is enough to on some 'Christian only' boards, being inconsistent is the only consistent thing about your approach to the Bible, lol

Actually, if you guys want to get hot about Christianity, answer me this...

I think the Holy Spirit (aka Holy Ghost) is a Female entity.

She didn't come along until some time after Her Son died in order to prove something about how She was something special that Jesus had died for in order to be introduced to humans... (day of Pentecost...)

Heavenly Father was a total bully-dad beating up all his kids until they got enough behavior and self-discipline before then...

One prays to the Holy Ghost, and She is the one to tell us how to pray to the Heavenly Father, like a Mother telling us how to talk to Dad when he's in a bad mood.

Anyway... I was trying to apologize to the Almighty for everything I've done wrong, and I ran out of numbers.

She and God had a Son named Christ before heaven and earth were created as an inheritance for him as it is from Adam and Eve's seed that Christ will choose a wife from. He did that while on the cross.
He made His own mother the mother of the Beloved Disciple, Mary sister of Martha and Lazarus

Numbers, nobody said anything about numbers, now I have to start over from, .... ****, great now's there's one more.

Truth be told there is also a short version should the 'sword' be close-by. Just sayin ....

Lu:18:13:
And the publican,
standing afar off,
would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven,
but smote upon his breast,
saying,
God be merciful to me a sinner.

 

[lone wolf]

:lol: I haven't even seen your reply to my challenge yet! I've been going back and forth between old and recent posts and haven't seen it. You were going to show me where it says in the bible Jesus is not God. I'm willing to bet whatever you've come up with is a misconception or is not viewed in light of proper context.

Try Matt 10:32, 33. Why would one threat with "acknowledge before my Father"?

...you know ... the passages just before your cherry picked version (Matt 10:34-36) of some spiteful control freak who splits up families to get his way (thought that was a Yoho thing)

...or are you just Google searching keywords to find ammunition for your fakery and hocus-pocus?

...but, then again, you've already admitted it you're only going to read it to your advantage. Typical crazy-making behaviour of the narcissist

 

[Dexter Sinister]

Not one complaint that contains a specific argument?

We've been over that before and you just weaseled and denied and made up stuff to explain why the Bible doesn't say what it plainly does say about the order of creation. I don't propose to do it again, because you'll just do the same thing again, and remain proudly sunk in your willful ignorance.

 

[Cliffy]

What journey?

Continue to read the thread garsshopper, it has been laid out.

You're right that "Christ" is a title -- it is a title that belongs to One Person, and that person is Jesus of Nazareth; that is why I use the title to refer to the person.

Jesus was not the only person to reach Christhood.

Your religion of works is not new in this world, and certainly not new to me. I was raised in a cult as a zealous Arminian Christian -- these sorts you might call the "Remonstrants." It sounds really noble and righteous, but it boils down to pride that says, "I can do such-and-such, and then God will be obliged to reward me."

The "empty-handed leap" you speak of has been for me an emptying of my pride-- my belief that I can twist God's arm. I observe the true meaning of Sabbath rest when I say, "Jesus Christ finished the work, for He said, 'It is finished,' and now I will repent of my so-called good works and will engage this Sabbath rest." If I work for my salvation, then I am breaking the Sabbath, and God hates Sabbath-breakers. Such work violates the rest that He sanctified; it represents a lack of faith in who Christ is and what Christ has done.

You miss the point altogether. It has nothing to do with works. The journey is a lifelong one. You must seek the truth with humility and integrity. You did not rid yourself of pride, you are constantly bragging about the only truth you have found and that all that do not see it as you do are doomed. That is arrogance and pride. You have not even started the journey. You have not gone into the wilderness and you have barely acknowledged your demons, let alone wrestled with them. I know this by your words.

 

[MHz]

... and remain proudly sunk in your willful ignorance.

Well there you go. I guess I just prefer to view our 20% oxygen atmosphere to be here because of plants rather than it being jelly-fish farts. Yes we have been over in it in some detail and I assume we both have memories. Do you still contend that earths rotation around itself and around the sun is exactly the same as it was on the end of day 1 (4B years ago) until the end of day 4 (the same weight she is today)? Let alone somebody knowing about it in 600BC.

 

[darkbeaver]

Didn't learn much science getting your B.Sc. I see. There's nothing quite like religion for making people proudly and willfully ignorant.

You're getting sloppy Sinister, you invoke science in the first utterance and religion in the second but fail to mention that even gardening can be misused by the willfully proud. People are already doomed by their acumulated tendencies and only seek a convienient vehicle for expression. In that respect there is not a gram of difference between the mistaken scientist and the mistaken theist.

 

[Spade]

Sorry I missed the most recent flurry. I was busy lighting candles for Grasshopper's and Adopted's souls, lest they continue in the darkness. Besides, can those who don't condemn slavery or genocide be all bad?

 

[talloola]

If you walked into a Christian church off the street, what question would you like to hear answered?

How much money they have hoarded away, just like any other corporation
skimming money for themselves, at others expense.

 

[adopted]

Continue to read the thread garsshopper, it has been laid out.



Jesus was not the only person to reach Christhood.


You miss the point altogether. It has nothing to do with works. The journey is a lifelong one. You must seek the truth with humility and integrity. You did not rid yourself of pride, you are constantly bragging about the only truth you have found and that all that do not see it as you do are doomed. That is arrogance and pride. You have not even started the journey. You have not gone into the wilderness and you have barely acknowledged your demons, let alone wrestled with them. I know this by your words.

Cliffy: I perceive that you are religious/spiritual. You do believe in something supernatural, God or gods? My question is, what is your foundation, who is your teacher, where is your religion defined, who are the "clergy" and "laity" of your church, if I may put it that way? Is it a one-man religion?

How much money they have hoarded away, just like any other corporation
skimming money for themselves, at others expense.

That sure has happened at various times in various ways. It is documented that one of the twelve apostles of Jesus regularly "helped himself" to the money bag, of which he was in charge. Woe to those who commit crimes in the name of Christ. Money and sex scandals give occasion for unbelievers to blaspheme the name of God.

A church denomination with a structure of authority can minimize troubles like this. In the New Testament, for example, when a delivery of money was made to the poor in Jerusalem, it wasn't left in the hands of one man, for it would be unfair to tempt him that way. The New Testament church established a hierarchy of authority with elders and deacons.

In our church, money for the church administration/minister/etc is never collected, but donated anonymously into a locked box, to which the minister does not have a key.

(The minister, incidentally, is not the chief authority in Reformed or Presbyterian churches -- the authority is with the nominated/elected elders, of which he may be one, but he is always subject to them. If he is preaching a false message, they have the authority to give him the boot. He's the only member of the elder's council that isn't allowed to vote when they make decisions.) There is no perfection in any human organization. But the idea is that Christ is the head of the church, and the elders are charged with a delegation of this authority.

The "collection" is for the poor and needy within our church and outside our church. This is handled by the deacons. The money bag is never left alone with one man. These men are nominated and elected by members of the church. After each service, the men together count and record the money total -- this will be accounted for to the last penny.

Once a year, the budget/numbers from the deacons and others are all presented to the entire congregation. Each group and committee is audited. Nothing is hidden.

In summary, there is a system of accountability, because we recognize that we are all fallen humans, subject to temptation at every turn.

 

[Cliffy]

Cliffy: I perceive that you are religious/spiritual. You do believe in something supernatural, God or gods? My question is, what is your foundation, who is your teacher, where is your religion defined, who are the "clergy" and "laity" of your church, if I may put it that way? Is it a one-man religion?

How does one lay out 40+ years of studying religious and spiritual systems, psychology, philosophy, quantum physics and mechanics, metaphysics, etc,? My teachers have been many and diverse, I have read hundreds of books and engaged hundreds of people from many schools of thought in conversation, but mostly, I went into the wilderness, like Jesus is supposed to have done, for ten years. There I established a very personal relationship with my Creator. What I have been talking about here is a synthesis of what I have learned in those 40+ years. Yes, I have been a very serious student and one of the most profound realizations I had many years ago was that you cannot possibly reach enlightenment by being serious. Enlightenment is not just about wisdom. It is about a lightness of spirit, about seeing the humour in your own beliefs and thoughts and actions. A person who cannot laugh at themselves is in hell.

 

[MHz]

.... but mostly, I went into the wilderness, like Jesus is supposed to have done, for ten years. There I established a very personal relationship with my Creator. What I have been talking about here is a synthesis of what I have learned in those 40+ years.

He only went for 40 days.