Marines and Honour

[ironsides]

FYI, I don't defend the actions of anyone involved in either of these incidents. My point is only that the Congressman's statement was both ignorant and wrong.

As far as I know, the Taliban do lots of crazy assed ****.... but I don't believe their code allows for the desecration of dead bodies or disrespect for their adversaries. However, I'd like to see someone post something which proves that statement wrong. Its possible that they have done this and I am unaware of it. However if the Taliban did something like the US Marines did, it would have made our news. I'm also fairly certain most Americans would have been rightfully outraged and self righteous as the Afghan people are.

You like supporting this kind of trash especially when you get a chance to dis the U.S.. Congressman West may not be the greatest politician, but he is a soldier who won the respect of his men. That is all I need to know about him in this situation.




Eyewitness accounts of Taliban massacre in Yakaolang


I was one of the Taliban's torturers: I crucified people - Telegraph


taliban torture poor pashtun women in afghanistan - YouTube


Taliban War on Women


Taliban Hangs 8-Year-Old Afghan Boy - Father refused to give militants a police vehicle

 

[Cannuck]

Nothing to do with class or lack thereof....

Of course it does. Carlin is defined by his standup comedy.

 

[Niflmir]

Allen West on the Marines Incident: 'Shut Your Mouth, War Is Hell'.

“I have sat back and assessed the incident with the video of our Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. I do not recall any self-righteous indignation when our Delta snipers Shugart and Gordon had their bodies dragged through Mogadishu. Neither do I recall media outrage and condemnation of our Blackwater security contractors being killed, their bodies burned, and hung from a bridge in Fallujah.

“As for everyone else, unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, shut your mouth, war is hell.”

Well I think Mr West completely missed the point.

Nobody was up in arms about troops being dragged through Mogadishu because it fits in with our stereotype that these people are barbaric and we are better than that.

People are up in arms about marines urinating on Taliban corpses because it presents direct evidence, that we really aren't any better. It makes people wonder, Are we really the good guys? It makes people wonder if they should really be waging this war.

You can basically paraphrase Mr. West's take on the whole situation as, "Unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, let us continue to urinate on corpses." Which is just absurd. You don't have to have experienced a situation directly in order to understand or condemn it. Otherwise we would have no basis for imprisoning criminals or starting this war in the first place.

 

[JLM]

Of course it does. Carlin is defined by his standup comedy.

You obviously haven't learned that when you partially quote somebody, you should ensure the partiality doesn't change the meaning and context of the complete quote................Einstein!

 

[lone wolf]

It's wet like a river and gold like honey. Were the marines virgins?

...but yes, disrespectful....

 

[Cannuck]

You obviously haven't learned that when you partially quote somebody, you should ensure the partiality doesn't change the meaning and context of the complete quote................Einstein!

Sorry, your post generally don't have any meaning so it's tough to determine what, if any, context has changed.

 

[JLM]

Sorry, your post generally don't have any meaning so it's tough to determine what, if any, context has changed.

That depends on the audience, but yep, it only has meaning to a functioning brain!

 

[Goober]

Who said I'm upset about it. I just think the guys need to be dishonorably discharged and thrown in the klink for six months. That might stop any other "stressed out" soldiers from doing something stupid like this.

Then you have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to Battle Stress -

Regarding the incident where US soldiers fired indiscriminately into a crowd of unarmed civilian -[/URL]

EAO Still waiting - I have amended it slightly
Now that in itself is an interesting point. You have the common or frequent habit of not answering a clear, direct and concise question, you pull a Houdini or a large cut and paste that dances a jig around the question asked.

Example - I will ask a direct, clearly worded and concise question. And yes i will eagerly await your informed reply.

What is a Non Violent Pacifist? This should be simple as you are defining yourself. To me it would be a simple task.

 

[ironsides]

Well I think Mr West completely missed the point.

Nobody was up in arms about troops being dragged through Mogadishu because it fits in with our stereotype that these people are barbaric and we are better than that.

People are up in arms about marines urinating on Taliban corpses because it presents direct evidence, that we really aren't any better. It makes people wonder, Are we really the good guys? It makes people wonder if they should really be waging this war.

You can basically paraphrase Mr. West's take on the whole situation as, "Unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, let us continue to urinate on corpses." Which is just absurd. You don't have to have experienced a situation directly in order to understand or condemn it. Otherwise we would have no basis for imprisoning criminals or starting this war in the first place.

Of course urinating on corpses is wrong, in my 40+ years in the service, I only heard about uninating like that happening, but never actually witnessed it. I have heard of allied troops (Americans included) that collected ears, teeth and other body parts from dead enemy combatants, it was wrong and they were dealt with, most were sent to a mental hospitals for observation then if warranted a court martial. Mutilation is treated much worse than just insulting them by urination.

 

[lone wolf]

Of course urinating on corpses is wrong, in my 40+ years in the service, I only heard about uninating like that happening, but never actually witnessed it. I have heard of allied troops (Americans included) that collected ears, teeth and other body parts from dead enemy combatants, it was wrong and they were dealt with, most were sent to a mental hospitals for observation then if warranted a court martial. Mutilation is treated much worse than just insulting them by urination.

Yet in another field, trophy taking is believed to be as honour to a brave but fallen enemy. The world's a strange place.

 

[Goober]

Well I think Mr West completely missed the point.

Nobody was up in arms about troops being dragged through Mogadishu because it fits in with our stereotype that these people are barbaric and we are better than that.

People are up in arms about marines urinating on Taliban corpses because it presents direct evidence, that we really aren't any better. It makes people wonder, Are we really the good guys? It makes people wonder if they should really be waging this war.

You can basically paraphrase Mr. West's take on the whole situation as, "Unless you have been shot at by the Taliban, let us continue to urinate on corpses." Which is just absurd. You don't have to have experienced a situation directly in order to understand or condemn it. Otherwise we would have no basis for imprisoning criminals or starting this war in the first place.

There is a major difference between pissing on the dead to killing wounded, killing prisoners, sawing a persons head off. Just my humnble opinion is all.

Why do you think Soldiers do not like and rarely talk of their War experiences. I am not referring to the normal stuff but the shxt, the real shxt that does happen.

 

[earth_as_one]

You like supporting this kind of trash especially when you get a chance to dis the U.S.. Congressman West may not be the greatest politician, but he is a soldier who won the respect of his men. That is all I need to know about him in this situation

I have no problem with people condemning the Taliban for their actions. Their strict code of behavior allows many acts which would be accurately judged as cruel, barbaric and medieval. Your post certainly highlights some good examples and I have no problem condemning them. How did you the warped perception that I support the Taliban? Would you please quote a single post where I expressed support for the Taliban? Otherwise admit you are making stuff up about me.

You still seem to have missed my points about the congressman.

Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan are three different countries. The Taliban never desecrated those bodies in the examples the congressman cited. The congressman seems to have trouble telling one group of people from another and one war from another, when he claims that US marines can desecrate people in Afghanistan, because it was done to Americans in Iraq and Somalia. The congressman is both ignorant and wrong.

Please elaborate or clarify you position. Do agree with the congressman that acts of desecration against Americans in Somalia and Iraq justify the Marines urinating on the bodies of dead Taliban in Afghanistan?

 

[JLM]

Then you have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to Battle Stress -

Nope but his expertise lies in other areas like a tough day at the office slugging it out on the golf course! :lol::lol:

 

[Goober]

[/FONT]

The Taliban regularly execute civilians, persons that work for Aid agencies, a US reporter had his head cut off. Mr. Pearl i believe was his name. The Taliban captured a US soldier over a year ago. I wonder about him.

Nowhere did Ironsides state, imply that desecration of a body was correct or appropriate behavior. As to the Taliban strict code of behavior - perhaps you can point us to a manual that the Taliban use to decide Battlefield Etiquette. And what penalties do they receive for desecration of a corpse?

Now my question as you always run and hide from them is

What is a Non violent Pacifist.

 

[captain morgan]

Now my question as you always run and hide from them is

What is a Non violent Pacifist.

Let me try and answer this one Goobs... A non violent pacifist, in the terms that I have observed by the forum member in question, may be represented by a 2 part philosophy that waits until your back is turned such that a sucker-punch can be delivered with out defense... The second element of the philosophy that is the non violent pacifist runs away as fast as possible once the shot is delivered.

Ya see, Non Violent Pacifist is really a play on words.

1. Non: as in no direct face-to-face confrontation
2. Violent: as in sucker punch.
3. Pacifist: as in run away and start screaming for a treaty or truce before the consequences are felt.

Hope that helps buddy

 

[Goober]

Let me try and answer this one Goobs... A non violent pacifist, in the terms that I have observed by the forum member in question, may be represented by a 2 part philosophy that waits until your back is turned such that a sucker-punch can be delivered with out defense... The second element of the philosophy that is the non violent pacifist runs away as fast as possible once the shot is delivered.

Ya see, Non Violent Pacifist is really a play on words.

1. Non: as in no direct face-to-face confrontation
2. Violent: as in sucker punch.
3. Pacifist: as in run away and start screaming for a treaty or truce before the consequences are felt.

Hope that helps buddy

Thanks for that. Myself I am just a (DDH)Dumb Down Homer - Yes Durry that is an Easterner - Ontario- Quebec is in Central Canada for the geographically challenged and you are I am afraid to say, quite challenged.

It is a shame that EAO at this age in his life still has problems defining who and what he is. I know, you know, as well as many other know what he is. But as of yet he still does not know what he is. Even when he is informed time and again he just slips away into denial. Perhaps it is a Mommy thing. Not sure on that.

 

[Cliffy]

Any why is that some people on here feel it necessary to continually attack certain other people, who for the most part, have never attacked anybody on here, just because they disagree with what that person's views are. It seems to me that these constant and unrelenting attacks say more about the character, or the lack there of, of the attackers. I have yet to read any comment by the person being attacked that backs up the assertions of the attackers. I find this line of comment really distasteful and ignorant.

 

[Goober]

Any why is that some people on here feel it necessary to continually attack certain other people, who for the most part, have never attacked anybody on here, just because they disagree with what that person's views are. It seems to me that these constant and unrelenting attacks say more about the character, or the lack there of, of the attackers. I have yet to read any comment by the person being attacked that backs up the assertions of the attackers. I find this line of comment really distasteful and ignorant.

Is that directed at myself. If so I can refute it.

 

[Cliffy]

Is that directed at myself. If so I can refute it.

There is a whole cadre of people who are continually attacking, not just eao, but a few others. There is not justification for such behaviour in my opinion. If you have issue with what is said, counter it. Personal attacks are frowned on on this forum.

 

[Goober]

There is a whole cadre of people who are continually attacking, not just eao, but a few others. There is not justification for such behavior in my opinion. If you have issue with what is said, counter it. Personal attacks are frowned on on this forum.

Lots of things are frowned on. Hatred of a specific religion is more than shall we say frowned on, it is clearly racist.
Making claims and stating counter those claims, which has been done by myself and many others. then the poster runs away like a frightened school girl. Is that also not frowned upon in when both are in a reasoned and polite debate?