Are Mormons Christians?

[Bar Sinister]

So let me get this straight. A religious sect whose members pray to Jesus Christ every day; who use the cross as the symbol of their religion, and who take literally everything in the Bible, are not Christians. Someone is going to have to enlighten me on exactly what a Christian is, because they sure seem to be very Christian to me.

 

[gerryh]

There is no historical evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. His martyrdom in Rome is strickly a Catholic traditional make believe story. Catholics claim there roots back to the apostles, but real evidence shows far from the truth.


I agree

Well, isn't that special. I gather then that you don't believe in any of this "hokum". With that being said, I gather then that you're just a troll that comes into spirituality threads to spread shyte around. Just want to get it straight what type of brainless troll you are.

Does it also have a connection with the Disciples as all were men and I assume unmarried?

That is also a reason I have been given.

 

[VanIsle]

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No, Priests are married to the Church, the same as Nuns. It is a "calling" as well as a vocation. It is expected that ALL their energy's be used for Christ, the Church, and mankind.

I'm very aware of that but I still think it is time for the church to move up to modern times. They can still be just as devoted to the church. Some of them find lots of time for extra curricular activities - right? Their "calling" is no different than other churches who have ministers instead of priests but - the "job" is pretty much the same.

 

[In Between Man]

And, I suppose Aley, because they don't meet your definition, they're going to hell?

It's not my definition. The BIBLE has dozens of verses that tell us salvation is obtained through faith alone. Mormons don't take the plunge and therefore don't receive their salvation because they don't believe in obtaining salvation this way. They believe in "good works" which the BIBLE EXPLICITLY says has nothing to do with salvation. Period. Mormons don't meet the BIBLICAL definition. They're not in, they're out.

As opposed to your religious dogma that must be right because YOUR preacher told you so?

I don't have a "religious" dogma being told to me by a preacher. I go by what the BIBLE says and Mormonism is opposed to the FUNDAMENTAL TEACHINGS.

Alley worships at the church of Starbucks where everyone is their own preacher, at least that is what he claims.

Not exactly. The point I was making was that "church" isn't a formal building.

Many of his beliefs are very similar to the radical right wing fundies, so I think his beliefs are heavily influenced, whether he admits it or not. We'll see when he returns tonight what he has to say about that.

Here I am! Put me under the light bulb and grill me!

You are speaking of the fundamentalist Latter Day Saints. Like many religions, they have evolved. Those who live in places like Bountiful, BC are the ones you are talking about - not modern day Latter Day Saints.

Incorrect. The "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" aka the Mormons that we're all familiar with do in fact believe in more than one god (among other serious heresies). Christians believe in one God, Mormons do not.

The "FUNDAMENTALIST Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" are a breakaway cult from the bigger cult of Mormonism. They're basically pedophiles who use religion to hide.

The criteria according to whom?

I already showed you whose criteria! In my first post I'm basically WAVING A BIBLE as my STANDARD for what DEFINES A CHRISTIAN (do you not see those links to scripture?). Seems to me that this would be the most objective way of finding out if Mormons meet the definition of Christian! The BIBLE came well before me, so I did not create the criteria - God the author did.

So let me get this straight. A religious sect whose members pray to Jesus Christ every day;

They pray to MORMON JESUS (who doesn't exist) not Jesus Christ (who is alive at this very moment).

who use the cross as the symbol of their religion,

They DO NOT use the cross as the symbol of their religion!!! Look at these Mormon churches:

DO YOU SEE CROSSES ON THOSE STEEPLES? DO YOU SEE CROSSES ANYWHERE? (Go to your local Mormon church and look inside, you won't see any inside either!) No, because they don't believe in the Christ's crucifixion as being sufficient for salvation and therefore significant, yet in Christianity calvary is the whole point to the BIBLE!!! Notice how deceptively close they make their churches to resemble traditional Christian churches? Deception.

and who take literally everything in the Bible,

They DON'T take everything literal. The bible literally says there is ONE GOD. Mormons do not believe in monotheism.

are not Christians.

They are not Christians. Just because someone owns a bible, puts the name "Jesus Christ" in their religion's name, and acts "religious" doesn't make them a Christian. As I already asked Corduroy (and failed to get an answer), are Muslims also Christians because they believe Jesus was a prophet for their Jew-hating Allah?

Ever walked past an establishment called "Church of Christ, Scientist"? Oh boy, you should take a peek at their reinterpretation of the bible! Yikes! It resembles nothing like the bible you and I are familiar with. But wait, it has "Christ" in their banner, does that make them Christian? No.

Someone is going to have to enlighten me on exactly what a Christian is

Being a Christian means that you have trusted in the true God for salvation, in the True Jesus - not the brother of the devil, not the god of Mormonism, not the gospel of Mormonism. You have to be born again.

because they sure seem to be very Christian to me.

It's too easy for someone to dress nice, hug a bible to their chest, smile and assert how their religion will save you. That's exactly how dangerous cults operate! If what they're saying doesn't line up with the ESSENTIAL DOCTRINES of Christianity, as written in the BIBLE, they are not Christian.

If I was Satan, and it was my mission to deceive, I would create a COUNTERFEIT to the truth. One that closely resembles Christianity but DENIES the intrinsic message of salvation therefore preventing its followers from obtaining it. Mormonism is a good example of counterfeit Christianity. And with some 2000 false religions, you can see how religious the enemy is!

 

[CDNBear]

Wow, a noob. Oh my, I guess having several thousand ignorant posts makes you legitmate?

Ahhh yes, you read thousands of my posts and determined all that in a couples hours. I smell...

Yup, you pegged him pretty well.

A sock puppet...

I wasn't trolling either. My comments are clearly not hate filled crap designed to stoke the flames.

Neither was I actually. I was just stating an opinion. But hey, you read thousands of my posts in a couple hours. You must know what I was doing better than I.

Whatever I've seen from you on here has been complete and utter nonsense. You're one of those d bags that tries to organize your stupidity in logically inconsistent ways and then just keep banging the drum until nobody has any patience for debate with you anymore, at which time you declare victory. You're not the only forum troll I've eveer seen, although you are one of the least intelligent ones.

Nice troll...

What were you saying about coming onto silly forums and trolling?

Oh ya...

 

[Corduroy]

I already showed you whose criteria! In my first post I'm basically WAVING A BIBLE as my STANDARD for what DEFINES A CHRISTIAN (do you not see those links to scripture?). Seems to me that this would be the most objective way of finding out if Mormons meet the definition of Christian! The BIBLE came well before me, so I did not create the criteria - God the author did.

The Mormons have a book that defines them as Christian. Why's your book more authoritative than theirs?

 

[Cliffy]

"I already showed you whose criteria! In my first post I'm basically WAVING A BIBLE as my STANDARD for what DEFINES A CHRISTIAN (do you not see those links to scripture?). Seems to me that this would be the most objective way of finding out if Mormons meet the definition of Christian! The BIBLE came well before me, so I did not create the criteria - God the author did."

And just because you say that it is written by god, doesn't make it so. You believe what you do based on what other people say, but like it is impossible to even prove god exists, it is impossible to prove this god wrote a book using a whole bunch of men over thousands of years. There are thousands of contradictions that you ignore in the bible. There is mounting evidence that just about every story was borrowed from other cultures in both the OT and NT that you choose to ignore. Your belief in the bible is just as tenuous as any Mormon's.

Abraham was a Sumerian. The flood story was Sumerian. Many of the OT stories come out of Babylon, Egypt, India, Persia and Assyria. Jesus was a composite of several old gods. You continue to ignore the facts but then accuse others of worshiping false gods and beliefs. What makes your brand of fairy tales better than the next guy's?

 

[TenPenny]

I would like to see the Catholic Church allow their priests to wed. That would be a good first step in the rules of the church.

I'm not sure how that would help. I don't see how being celebate makes one a pedophile.

 

[karrie]

I can see picking apart policies of a church that impact the safety of others. Views that put society at risk. But seriously, if you don't belong to the church, why would anyone care what changes they make? Whether or not priests can marry is between them and their church. Why would someone who has said, over and over again that they don't belong to that church, want to change it? Other than to try to make sure that the whole world thinks and acts like they do?

 

[Dexter Sinister]

There is no historical evidence that Peter was ever in Rome. His martyrdom in Rome is strickly a Catholic traditional make believe story. Catholics claim there roots back to the apostles, but real evidence shows far from the truth.

Agreed, but that's not really the point, the point is that's what the church claims, and bases its legitimacy as the one true holy catholic apostolic church on. Doesn't much matter what's actually true when it comes to religious dogma.

 

[TenPenny]

I can see picking apart policies of a church that impact the safety of others. Views that put society at risk. But seriously, if you don't belong to the church, why would anyone care what changes they make? Whether or not priests can marry is between them and their church. Why would someone who has said, over and over again that they don't belong to that church, want to change it? Other than to try to make sure that the whole world thinks and acts like they do?

Well put. I look upon the church as akin to a service club. If you're not a Rotarian, why do you care how it works? What does it mean to you? Nothing. If you're not a member of the club, you're not a member. So let it go.

I'm pleased that Rotary started allowing women members a few years ago.

 

[DaSleeper]

Well put. I look upon the church as akin to a service club. If you're not a Rotarian, why do you care how it works? What does it mean to you? Nothing. If you're not a member of the club, you're not a member. So let it go.

I'm pleased that Rotary started allowing women members a few years ago.

Right on...I don't care much for televangelists who beg for money, but if grandma is silly enough to to send it to them, it's no skin off my nose..
I don't realy care as long as they don't try to convert me.....or blow me up:lol:

 

[The Old Medic]

Virtually no Christian Church considers the Church of Latter Day Saints to be a Christian Church in ANY meaning of that word. They claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but their version of Jesus is so unlike any other churches, that there is simply no possible way to reconcile them.

But, on the whole, the Mormons probably live their religion a LOT more than almost any other religious group. they take care of their own, and they extend help to a LOT of other people too. The vast majority of Mormons follow the teachings of their church to a MUCH higher degree than most Christians do.

Nobody denies that Mitt Romney is a good man. He doesn't beat his wife, his kids, or his dog. he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke and he doesn't pop pills, smoke dope or shoot up. There has never been the slightest hint of any scandal involving him, or anyone in his family (including his father, who was both a business executive and a politician).

And frankly, what does it matter? Under the Constitution of the USA, no religious test is allowed for any person to hold public office. And no religious hurdle should have to be met, in order for anyone to run for, of become the president of the United States of America. To do that is to violate both the letter, and the spirit, of the Constitution.

Anyone that raises such an issue is against the Constitution.

Oh yeah, and even Great Britain is finally getting rid of THEIR religious tests, allowing the future Monarch to marry a Catholic. Canada supports that change to the Constitution, but will have to change ITS law too.

 

[darkbeaver]

Virtually no Christian Church considers the Church of Latter Day Saints to be a Christian Church in ANY meaning of that word. They claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, but their version of Jesus is so unlike any other churches, that there is simply no possible way to reconcile them.

But, on the whole, the Mormons probably live their religion a LOT more than almost any other religious group. they take care of their own, and they extend help to a LOT of other people too. The vast majority of Mormons follow the teachings of their church to a MUCH higher degree than most Christians do.

Nobody denies that Mitt Romney is a good man. He doesn't beat his wife, his kids, or his dog. he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke and he doesn't pop pills, smoke dope or shoot up. There has never been the slightest hint of any scandal involving him, or anyone in his family (including his father, who was both a business executive and a politician).

And frankly, what does it matter? Under the Constitution of the USA, no religious test is allowed for any person to hold public office. And no religious hurdle should have to be met, in order for anyone to run for, of become the president of the United States of America. To do that is to violate both the letter, and the spirit, of the Constitution.

Anyone that raises such an issue is against the Constitution.

Oh yeah, and even Great Britain is finally getting rid of THEIR religious tests, allowing the future Monarch to marry a Catholic. Canada supports that change to the Constitution, but will have to change ITS law too.

Mitt Romney is a bad person not a man at all but in word and deed a traitor to his people and his nation.

 

[CDNBear]

Mitt Romney is a bad person not a man at all but in word and deed a traitor to his people and his nation.

And he isn't even a Jewish banker!

 

[VanIsle]

I can see picking apart policies of a church that impact the safety of others. Views that put society at risk. But seriously, if you don't belong to the church, why would anyone care what changes they make? Whether or not priests can marry is between them and their church. Why would someone who has said, over and over again that they don't belong to that church, want to change it? Other than to try to make sure that the whole world thinks and acts like they do?

No - that's just not true at all. Lots of Catholics believe priests should have the right to wed, the right to live a regular life and have a family outside of the church. Why shouldn't they? Like many other people, I see allowing priests to marry, as a means to reduce the number of pedophiles who join the church for that reason alone. No guarantee it would work but it would probably have a big influence in reducing that aspect. Why would any church member want to deny their priest the right to a spouse and children of their own?
You said you can see picking apart policies of the church that impact the safety of others. I see this as being a "policy" that can highly impact the safety of others. It is the church that says the priests cannot wed. It is not the word of God.

 

[Vaessen]

Ahhh yes, you read thousands of my posts and determined all that in a couples hours. I smell...

A sock puppet...

Neither was I actually. I was just stating an opinion. But hey, you read thousands of my posts in a couple hours. You must know what I was doing better than I.

Nice troll...

What were you saying about coming onto silly forums and trolling?

Oh ya...

You came in here and spewed hate about Mormons calling them morons and nutters. I used your post as an example because it was so outrageous. If you want to call me a troll for doing so, that's up to you. It's very clear that what you did in this forum was trolling and what I I have done in this forum was not.

I didn't read thousands of your posts either. I don't have to. You have 20,000 posts and I see one blatantly insighting hate calling an entire segment of society names and it makes it quite obvious that you were trolling. then you call me a "noob". Making the implication that because I haven't posted here forever, as it appears you have, that my opinion is less valid when all I did was pick out a particularly stupid post that you made. Go back and read your post. Go ahead and defend that nonsense. Don't try to make this about something it's not. I wasn't pickign on you. I didn't come here to specifically call you out. I saw an offensive post and thought it should be pointed out. I have since seen some posts of yours that I agree with and don't consider trolling at all. You attacked me for bringing up your one post. That's fine. Maybe you think you should be above reproach. I don't think you should be. And I do think your post was complete crap and if you want to defend it instead of using hindsight and admitting that you made an erroneous statement that was hate filled and shouldn't have then that's on you.

 

[VanIsle]

Well put. I look upon the church as akin to a service club. If you're not a Rotarian, why do you care how it works? What does it mean to you? Nothing. If you're not a member of the club, you're not a member. So let it go.

I'm pleased that Rotary started allowing women members a few years ago.

I'm sure that you, along with many others, care about how many things work. If you did not know how a church or a club worked, why would you ever consider joining it and if no one cares about any of these things, why are we even discussing whether or not Mormons are christians? If people should not be interested in these things, it should not be a thread here.

 

[Vaessen]

well, I think the idea that "love it or leave it" is something that makes no sense in reality. It sounds good but then who gets the clubs/religions etc. to change and evolve? There is something noble about trying to effect change. I think as long as one doesn't impede on the rights of others that having an opinion and letting it be known, even trying to change others opinions, is perfectly fine.

I have no problem with the green crowd hating on me for hunting. I have nothing against productive debate. I would rather know their opinions and have the debate then not.

 

[karrie]

I'm sure that you, along with many others, care about how many things work. If you did not know how a church or a club worked, why would you ever consider joining it and if no one cares about any of these things, why are we even discussing whether or not Mormons are christians? If people should not be interested in these things, it should not be a thread here.

Having an opinion on how they work, and expecting them to work differently aren't the same thing. I for example may find the ideas behind mormonism to be odd, not suited to me, but why would I WANT them to change their views to suit me when I'm not even a member/believer? More pointedly, why on earth would you give two hoots if a priest can marry or not, why would you want it to change, even if you find it pointless?