First Nations paying tax payers bills for services
- Thread starter CDNBear
- Start date
I understand it quite well. The resources on this planet belong to everyone on the planet, the indians never 'owned' them nor does any governmnent or corporation, end of discussion on that.
I have never done anything bad to anyone, I haven't stolen anything, I haven't raped or beaten anyone, I have worked an honest job since I was 16 and payed every penny of my share of taxes since I was 18.
The indians are asking me and my children and grandchildren to pay for things done to their ancestors by other people than those alive today. Don't try to pass it off to the governmnent, every person in this country is the government, the few in Ottawa are just representitives. As for corporations raping resources, do you have a car, appliances, a computer and phone, we all use the resources and so do the indians, get a grip on the reality of the actual situation.
Ever hear the saying about not inflicting the sins of the father on the child? Well that is what is being done to every Canadian with this.
FYI - I hate starbucks, don't go near the place and went to disneyland once as a child.
That's what we're doing in court.
No I don't. And your claim that the First Nations want to claim the whole country, is just another example, of your inability to understand the large, intricate nature of the issue. Again, it is also the same reason, people in this thread have seen fit to label you a bigot. If you don't stop making the same mistake, you'll remove all doubt.
Besides that, I do not support all land claims, not even by the Haudenosaunee.
If someone stole your inheritance, or illegally prevented you from accessing it fully, would you just throw your hands up and say 'oh well'?
Yes. Did you not understand what 'CDN' stood for?
If only you had the authority to make that so eh. You have a nasty habit of wanting to remove peoples freedoms. You should work on that.
Did you have a contract that was broken?
You are correct, many cultural, ethnic groups have lost throughout history. But some were smart enough to get the rules put down in writing.
Now that we all learned to read, that fact is coming back to haunt the ones those treaties benefited more, then it did in the beginning.
It would only look that way, if you had a narrow and limited understanding of the intricacies of the issue.
That is not at all apparent.
Unfortunately, that utopian thinking, is not reality and corporations and gov'ts, have profited, at the expense and by the exploitation of First Nations, peoples and lands. Until your vision is realized by the globe. You have to pay for what you use.
Ditto, except I have beaten up some people, and I started work earlier in life.
You're lumping all First Nations again.
I have an excellent grip on the situation. I do use resources. I pay for them, and I pay the taxes on them. That doesn't make the fact that the gov't, and corporations, made large amounts of money, by committing illegal acts, void.
A contract is binding. When the Crown signed it, they signed it for your childrens, children too.
Ever hear the saying about not inflicting the sins of the father on the child? Well that is what is being done to every Canadian with this.
You seem to still be there.
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If you disagree with the article, say so.
Just answer the question. It really shouldn't be that hard. I don't require a simple yes or no answer. Your feeble dodge attempt has been noted.
But it is not I that tries to change the issue. I merely try and hold people logically consistent. People like CB and Gerry will hold up the SCC ruling as a yardstick while I say that their ruling is irrelevant as the law can be changed. Now, if we were to talk about John Sharpe and Canada's child porn laws, my opinion would not change. I am against child porn and the law needs to be changed to prevent it. Gerry and CB will either flip flop and agree that a SCC ruling does not "make right" or they will have to "accept" child porn as a fact of life and "get over it". It's really about logical consistency, agendas and hypocrites and the fun I have at exposing them. It has nothing to do with first nations and land claims as I really don't care that much about it. I understand it's an important issue for CB but he's not the first that wants to squeeze money out of the taxpayers and I doubt he'll be the last.
Just answer the question. It really shouldn't be that hard. I don't require a simple yes or no answer. Your feeble dodge attempt has been noted.
But it is not I that tries to change the issue. I merely try and hold people logically consistent. People like CB and Gerry will hold up the SCC ruling as a yardstick while I say that their ruling is irrelevant as the law can be changed. Now, if we were to talk about John Sharpe and Canada's child porn laws, my opinion would not change. I am against child porn and the law needs to be changed to prevent it. Gerry and CB will either flip flop and agree that a SCC ruling does not "make right" or they will have to "accept" child porn as a fact of life and "get over it". It's really about logical consistency, agendas and hypocrites and the fun I have at exposing them. It has nothing to do with first nations and land claims as I really don't care that much about it. I understand it's an important issue for CB but he's not the first that wants to squeeze money out of the taxpayers and I doubt he'll be the last.
Your feeble dodge attempt has been noted.
Your feeble attempts to divert and dodge, aside, perhaps you can provide some facts, and evidence to support your claims (Before you go calling other hypocrites).
Which are.
You still haven't proven this claim.
You still haven't told us, who I blame.
You still haven't proven this claim either.
Can we expect to see something other than your lies, dodging and hypocrisy, any time soon?
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Is that what you think? Here is something that you need to understand, might makes right. I don't profess that that is just or right or anything, but that's the truth. If someone can simply take what's you have and you have no ability to stop them in any way, then what does it matter how you feel about it? It's no less gone.
A commendable life I should say. No one in the US owns a slave anymore. But that doesn't change what happened to those who were slaves. Maybe I can change to a different point of view to explain my position.
If you bought a home and spent 30 years adding to it, building it into a beautiful place to live, and someone just came along and by force, kicked you out. When you called the police, you find out that the police are the brothers of the guys that kicked you out and took your home away from you. Having your life up rooted like that takes a toll on your family and you're kids have some anger issues because, instead of the happy life you had going, you have to start over, far away from the things that were familiar to you, and let slide some things in life because you're now too busy trying to get something back together for you and your family. I'll add this, that when those people kicked you our of your place, they also killed on of your sons who put up a fight. So in all of this, you have to deal with that loss if you can.
Now you're kids have grown up in this, period having witnessed that loss and suffered through it too, and they tell their children to watch out for these dirty buggers who come and steal away a life time of happiness and all the belongings to that. Unfortunately those same dirty buggers get wind of what your kids are teaching their kids and know that this will form resentment in the children. So they take those kids away from your kids, again by force, killing a few people here and there that try to stop them, and they put those kids in special schools where they can be raised and taught what they need to know away from all that resentment.
Now, another issue crops up, those who the dirty buggers hired to raise these kids of your kids have some issues of their own. Within their ranks are more than a few really bad people. They are going to molest those grand kids of yours, they are going to beat the daylights out of them and when those kids get too old to control easily, they are going to turn the violent ones over to the prison system so that they can be safe from these violent young adults.
Some of these kids suffer all that, and rather than lashing out, they buy in to the system. They take whats dished out to them, rise above all that, and manage to find the few people in that system who can help them through it. They get educated to the ways of that system, never causing a problem and become knowledgeable enough to see where some of the injustice, isn't at all condoned by the majority of the people. As they find the right people to relate this whole story to, that started with you getting kicked out of your home so long ago, the people see the injustice of it. Some even use the power they have to put a stop to the abuse of the kids put into those schools and try to weed out the sick buggers who used that to prey on the children there.
Mean while it comes to light that you weren't the only one kicked out of that nice home you had so long ago. Nor were your kids the only ones killed and hurt when that happened and as it turns out, there were a lot of their kids that had been taken away and put into these schools and further harmed. Those left behind in the aftermath of all of this, well some didn't take it all that well. Some turned to booze to dull the pain they couldn't deal with. Others couldn't hold on to a steady job because they were all wrapped up in it. They, like most people still had more kids, but as you might guess, not all of them were model parents. Some of those kids turned wild and just took it out on everyone themselves included.
Now when those dirty buggers grew old, they felt that they would leave some of what they accumulated in their lifetime, even what they took from others by force, to their children and grandchildren through inheritance. Your nice old house was sold and the money that came from that, which was not a small sum by the way, went to each of their kids who invested, bought themselves homes, rolled that money into a larger amount and in turn, became really wealthy from it. They built hospitals, roads, brought power to the towns that were growing. Built markets, schools and newspapers. Really good things that help alot of people. But none of that changes the fact that someone took your home that you worked hard to make for you and your family. Even though, your great great grandchildren use those same hospitals, work at those business and make a good living too. There is still that injustice that was done to you, and to your kids, and their kids after them.
There is no going back to right the wrong that was done to you. But an injustice has been done and as a result people have suffered, not just you but, your kids, their kids, all have suffered to some extent. Some more than others, but everyone has missed out on something. To address that, everyone got together and talked about it. As you can imagine, that wasn't easy. Not everyone wants to hear about how some of the great people who built a hospital, or made a great city out of a small town, had a darker side or whose father who left them such great wealth that made so much possible was a terrible person who stole so much from others. Not an easy conversation to have at all.
So in light of all of that, we all reached a deal on some of the issues. That would lay to rest some of the injustice by acknowledging that it happened and making a deal to in a symbolic way, make everyone even steven again.
There are still some issues that haven't been resolved partly because some people just aren't ready to deal with them yet, and the whole truth of the matter hasn't been agreed to yet.
But the deal we did agree to, now isn't being lived up to. Not they way it was intended when we agreed to the deal.
So we have things like reservations without clean drinking water. It's not that one side or the other is to blame, there are still dirty buggers on both sides stealing what isn't theirs and getting away with it. The fact remains, that there isn't clean drinking water. As an example you understand. We both need to sort out these dirty buggers, but they aren't an excuse not to make sure there is clean drinking water on reservations.
That we owe. Everyone, you me our kids kids ten generations down the line from us. We owe that. That was the deal. We agreed. A deal is a deal. We don't get to break the deal just because we aren't the ones at the table making the deal. Part of the deal was that it remains forever. Forever doesn't mean until it's inconvenient. Forever means forever.
That was the deal. Someone made an agreement on your behalf. Your kids are bound to it, as are those who come after them. The only way you get to back out of this deal is to leave the country. Anyone who comes to live in this country today, agrees to that deal. If you want to live here, you have to agree to that deal as that is part of the deal. No one says you have to stay here. You can leave the country for good and that is the end of you and that deal. You're free from it as are your kids. Unless they move back here to live and then they are again part of that deal.
Blame the guys who made the deal. But how you feel doesn't change it at all. Imagine someone coming into your store and buying something, then a month later sending you a letter saying they don't like that price anymore and want to stop paying for the stuff they bought. Just how far do you think they would be allowed to carry on with that idea? Do you think a court would enforce that motion, or do you figure they would be laughed out of court?
Some people just don't like good coffee. When I can't have my own, I go to Starbucks.
Never been to Disneyland. Not much for crowds anyway.
First Nations people need to grow and move on with life like the rest of us. Everyone here owes them some help to do that. We need to honour our deal. Doing so helps them but it also helps us to move on too.
Cannuck, Nick you can whine & bleat all you want However as long as the Indian Act is on the books nothing is going to change. Why should it? The act makes the First Nations wards of the Crown from cradle to grave and as such all basic needs are to be provided for. The Federal Government has no choice in the matter all it can do is drag its feet. That is how the situation has devolved to what it is today. Is it any wonder the First Nations take grievences to the United Nations & to International courts there is Canadian law on their side.
Having some involvement with water systems I can shed some light on the boil water advisory. First off it is largely bureaucrats both making work for themselves and covering their butts at the same time. My family owns a water system that supplies about 150 houses. Has had a boil water advisory since the 60s because no one wants chlorine in their water. No one has ever got sick drinking it in all that time either. I have been involved in building at least 4 reserve water and sewer systems on the coast. The residents have been drinking the water from these streams for hundreds of years but as soon as a proper water system is put in it must be chlorinated and tested. Here is where the problem lies. The people in charge on the res hand out these jobs not on ability but relationships so we get Walkerton type water management. So to cover their asses the worthless bureaucrats simply put a boil water advisory on the supply.
You do know that you may be called a bigot or a racist for saying something like that.
Kashechewan is a perfect example of the failures within the First Nations communities that get blamed on "whitey". The "claim" was that local operators were not properly trained (which of course they were).
In a nutshell, the history is that a part failed. There was a spare replacement part there. The local operator could have easily fixed the problem but could not be bothered (It wasn't a difficult fix - a 12 year old could have done it with ease). A contractor was flown in to do repairs (at considerable expense) and in no time the problem was solved. This is where the propaganda machine kicked in. The government flies in a portable water treatment plant and evacuated citizens and everybody stood around wringing their hands and descrying how bad a job "we" were doing giving these poor folks safe water. In Walkerton, we throw the incompetent idiots in jail. In Kashechewan, we blame the government because we couldn't possible hold aboriginals accountable for their idiocy. It's a double standard that people like me would like to see abolished. Some folks like to encourage the continuation of the double standard. It's clear they have an agenda based on racist ideology though they would rather eat glass than admit it.
I'm not saying that the Act needs to change. I'm saying that all Canadians need to be equal before the law. That's where people like me differ from people like CB and Gerry.
Yes, you keep saying that.
The funny part is, you keep failing to prove it.
The hilarious part is, when I prove you wrong.
You do realize, that it is not possible to "educate" the brainless bigots like canuck and politicalnick.
It's not really surprising that you have nothing to offer to the conversation but personal insults. It's one of the reasons I find you so amusing.
It's not really surprising that you have nothing to offer to the conversation but personal insults. It's one of the reasons I find you so amusing.
The irony and hypocrisy, is palpable.
Post # 111 talked about the history of Kashechewan. Why do you find that personally insulting?
Without any evidence, as usual, so it's meaningless hot air.
Like this other claim of yours...
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/wreck-beach/99644-more-silly-claims-cannuck-r.html