Accept for the stuff you make up.
Common practice v your proven track record of lack of ethics. Like posting rule 10, that simply does not even remotely apply.
Ya, I have your MO down pat. Can't beat'em legitimately, lie about them.
U.N. Employees Beheaded Over Quran Burning
- Thread starter CUBert
- Start date
Ya, I have your MO down pat. Can't beat'em legitimately, lie about them.
Update: More deaths today in Koran Burning Protests
Colpy, no reply to my post? Although it's "acceptable" to exercise your freedom of expression by burning the koran, wouldn't it be more acceptable and honorable if Terry Jones exercised his freedom of expression by demonstrating a loving, Christian attitude towards the muslims instead of playing games with them?
Shouldn't the only people burning the koran be former muslims who wish to do so?
Colpy, no reply to my post? Although it's "acceptable" to exercise your freedom of expression by burning the koran, wouldn't it be more acceptable and honorable if Terry Jones exercised his freedom of expression by demonstrating a loving, Christian attitude towards the muslims instead of playing games with them?
Shouldn't the only people burning the koran be former muslims who wish to do so?
I can understand you would not want to enter a debate where the result may scare the piss out of you.
Trying to compare a man-made event like 9/11 to a natural disaster is another attempt at avoidance....who is the nutter here?
I will answer your question even though you won't answer mine. YES!
I think he ran off to hide while the Presidents Trophy winning Canucks trash the last place Edmonton Oilers. He is from AB you know.
I'm off to watch the game too.
That's simply nonsense. I have entered the debate. As I've already said there are oodles of pages on this forum where all this stuff has already been discussed with me as a participant in many of them
Here's four
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/canadian-politics/74457-canadian-9-11-petition-parliament.html
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/alternate-theories/91141-9-11-inside-job.html
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/news/86423-anouncing-new-web-site-science.html
http://forums.canadiancontent.net/international-politics/70073-9-11-truth-manifesto.html
That's interesting. I've often wondered how you and others could think that these people were smart enough to pull off 9/11 but couldn't plant one single WMD in Iraq to justify their invasion. I guess they probably forgot to do that. Anyway, like I've said, if you want to discuss nutty theories about 9/11. go to one of the threads posted. That way this thread doesn't get hijacked. we already have one poster that wants to do that.
A few hundred Taliban? Are you saying that a few hundred Taliban took over Afghanistan?
And yes... the Taliban does kill more civillians.
Wow... new conspiracy stuff eh?
The attack was launched from Afghanistan. Don't be so daft.
Ohhhhhhh! The jury is still out on 9/11!
Pray tell what happened?
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me. If someone is going to claim to be Christian, they should at least try to live up to the teachings. Although I do not condone the actions of the loonies who are killing people, I can understand why they have lost all sense of reality. And it has almost nothing to do with what Jones did. That was just the trigger that fired the bullet that was itching to be spent.
My profile says the Chicago Blackhawks are my favorite team. Next year it will be the Winnipeg Coyotes/Jets/Moose/Falcons.
Yes, I'm interested as well.
It seems germane to the subject, so I would definitely like to hear PN out too.
Hey! Stop hijacking the thread.
Be nice if you had the SLIGHTEST idea what you are talking about. You don't.
Afghanistan civilian casualties: year by year, month by month. Visualised data | News | guardian.co.uk
I choose the Guardian because it is anti-US, anti-coalition, anti-war, and basically shares your world view.
9-11was planned and carried out by an organization headquartered in Afghanistan. That is a fact. I am so very sorry that it does not fit with your world view........
The jury is NOT still out on the WTC bombings.....CD is an impossibility, as I pointed out to you (look up the stats on the CD of the Hudson Dep't Store, one THIRD the height of one of the towers)...I have carefully researched it on a number of fronts, and the idea that it somehow was a CD carried out as a black ops operation is only believed by the weak-minded, as the truth torpedoes completely their weak-kneed, mushy, relativist world view. Unfortunately, it is impossible to convince these people of the truth, because then their entire house-of-cards belief system collapses faster than the two towers........
I suggest you research cd apart from the truther sites............it is informative. Oh, BTW, any idiot can see the towers collapsed from the top down....cd? Bottom up. And research the construction of the WTC.....it is the ONLY building using its unique central core system....around which it collapsed.......
And then the greatest stupidity of all. Yes, we are a democracy. Yes, the mass of the people choose our leaders. Yes, we are responsible for their decisions and their policies........look around at what is going on in the country right now.....it is called an election.
Geezus!!!!!
I have never seen ANYONE on this threads with your capacity to ignore simple facts simply because they don't support your view of the world.
Or you make up your own.
(shakes head)
A few quick responses before they drop the puck.
Canuck/Eagle
A few hundred, a couple of thousand even a few thousand, compared to the ordinance dropped indescrimintely on the country by the US coalition forces they must have had to form a big line and shoot til the ammo ran out to keep up. Your arguments are not believable or convincing and seem to stretch any logic to the extreme.
"The jury is still out" is an expression, a phrase meaning I am undecided as to the actual truth due to lack of absolute proof of anything. Glad I could help educate you both. I have already responded to this once, there was no jury or any comprehensive open investigation.
"The attack was launched from Afghanistan. Don't be so daft." - I believe the 4 planes took of from US airports, that would mean the attack was launched from the US.
Canuck - I answered your direct question but all you can do is point to another thread to answer mine. A mildly inventive way to avoid answering directly but still avoidance. Feel free to keep it up as it only affects your credibility, not mine.
Lastly I will hijack the thread once more to refer to the Presidents Trophy winning Vancouver Canucks....who are on tv right now so I will see you all after they trash another lowly team from lowly Alberta.
You are now un-hijacked, please continue amongst yourselves.
Canuck/Eagle
A few hundred, a couple of thousand even a few thousand, compared to the ordinance dropped indescrimintely on the country by the US coalition forces they must have had to form a big line and shoot til the ammo ran out to keep up. Your arguments are not believable or convincing and seem to stretch any logic to the extreme.
"The jury is still out" is an expression, a phrase meaning I am undecided as to the actual truth due to lack of absolute proof of anything. Glad I could help educate you both. I have already responded to this once, there was no jury or any comprehensive open investigation.
"The attack was launched from Afghanistan. Don't be so daft." - I believe the 4 planes took of from US airports, that would mean the attack was launched from the US.
Canuck - I answered your direct question but all you can do is point to another thread to answer mine. A mildly inventive way to avoid answering directly but still avoidance. Feel free to keep it up as it only affects your credibility, not mine.
Lastly I will hijack the thread once more to refer to the Presidents Trophy winning Vancouver Canucks....who are on tv right now so I will see you all after they trash another lowly team from lowly Alberta.
You are now un-hijacked, please continue amongst yourselves.
I've seen no evidence that the coalition has been "indiscriminately" attacking anything. You do know what the word means don't you?
OK, I will...but feel free to check out those threads if you want to learn some stuff.
The quake and wave were certainly real enough, my inquiry was was about events to do with pumps starting or not starting and if that is the areas stuxnet would target but only after an emergency shutdown, it isn't that the worn doesn't exist and it is said to target N-powerplants. This is the typical reaction from the 'in tune' crowd. My general question was about the hackers being responsible for all costs to do with part part of the on-going disaster.
Sorry I didn't get back to read that thread I started.before it got deleted.
Jimmy Carter allowed the CIA in Afghanistan 6 months before the USSR came in. Their mandate was to halt any progression in the women's rights movements. Starting about '76 women were making gains in the upper power positions of Education, ploitics and Law. The CIA backed the 'old guard' (who were already resisting those changes) and with US funding it was those forces that started the acid in the face campaign to get women to 'withdraw'.
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How can this be news to you?
(in part)
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban
CIA activities in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Afghanistan 1979
Further information: Operation Cyclone
[edit] Intelligence analysis
The CIA National Foreign Assessment Center completed work on a report entitled "Afghanistan: Ethnic Divergence and Dissidence" in May 1979, although it was not formally published until March 1980. It is not known if the information was readily available to policymakers at the time of the December 1979 invasion.[2]
Tribal insurgency, according to this report, began in 1978, with the installation of a pro-Soviet government. Even though the government tilted toward the Soviet Union, the analysis said that many tribal groups, especially Uzbek, saw the government as ethnically Pashtun, with hostility on ethnic and political grounds.
[edit] Covert action
President Carter reacted with "open-mouthed shock" to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and began promptly arming the Afghan insurgents.[3] Vice-President Walter Mondale famously declared: "I cannot understand -- it just baffles me -- why the Soviets these last few years have behaved as they have. Maybe we have made some mistakes with them. Why did they have to build up all these arms? Why did they have to go into Afghanistan? Why can't they relax just a little bit about Eastern Europe? Why do they try every door to see if it is locked?"[4] The Soviets, several times shortly before the invasion, had staged conversations with the Afghan leadership suggesting that they had no desire to intervene, even as the Politburo was—with much hesitation—considering such an intervention. Though some have argued that US financial assistance to Afghan dissidents, including Islamists and other militants, prior to the invasion; along with a Soviet desire to protect the leftist Afghan government, helped convince the Soviets to intervene, the Sovietts ironically brutally murdered the Afghan President and his son, replacing him with a puppet regime, immediately after the invasion for fear that the US had secretly been collaborating with him.[5]
One of the CIA's longest and most expensive covert operations was the supplying of billions of dollars in arms to the Afghan mujahideen militants.[6] The CIA provided assistance to the fundamentalist insurgents through the Pakistani secret services, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), in a program called Operation Cyclone. Somewhere between $3–$20 billion in U.S. funds were funneled into the country to train and equip troops with weapons.
According to the "Progressive South Asia Exchange Net," claiming to cite an article in Le Nouvel Observateur, U.S. policy, unbeknownst even to the Mujahideen, was part of a larger strategy of aiming "to induce a Soviet military intervention."[7] The article includes a brief interview with Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in which he is quoted as saying that the US provided aid to the mujahideen prior to the Soviet invasion in order to delibrately provoke one. Brzezinski himself has denied the accuracy of the interview.[8] According to Brzezinski, an NSC working group on Afghanistan wrote several reports on the deteriorating situation in 1979, but President Carter ignored them until the Soviet intervention destroyed his illusions. Brzezinski has stated that the US provided communications equipment and limited financial aid to the mujahideen prior to the "formal" invasion, but only in response to the Soviet deployment of forces to Afghanistan and the 1978 coup, and with the intention of preventing further Soviet encroachment in the region.[9] Two declassified documents signed by Carter shortly before the invasion do authorize the provision "unilaterally or through third countries as appropriate support to the Afghan insurgents either in the form of cash or non-military supplies" and the "worldwide" distribution of "non-attributable propaganda" to "expose" the leftist Afghan government as "despotic and subservient to the Soviet Union" and to "publicize the efforts of the Afghan insurgents to regain their country's sovereignty," but the records also show that the provision of arms to the rebels did not begin until 1980.[10][11]
(in part)
Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs ["From the Shadows"], that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?
Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.
CRG -- The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Afghanistan, the CIA, bin Laden, and the Taliban
CIA activities in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Afghanistan 1979
Further information: Operation Cyclone
[edit] Intelligence analysis
The CIA National Foreign Assessment Center completed work on a report entitled "Afghanistan: Ethnic Divergence and Dissidence" in May 1979, although it was not formally published until March 1980. It is not known if the information was readily available to policymakers at the time of the December 1979 invasion.[2]
Tribal insurgency, according to this report, began in 1978, with the installation of a pro-Soviet government. Even though the government tilted toward the Soviet Union, the analysis said that many tribal groups, especially Uzbek, saw the government as ethnically Pashtun, with hostility on ethnic and political grounds.
[edit] Covert action
President Carter reacted with "open-mouthed shock" to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, and began promptly arming the Afghan insurgents.[3] Vice-President Walter Mondale famously declared: "I cannot understand -- it just baffles me -- why the Soviets these last few years have behaved as they have. Maybe we have made some mistakes with them. Why did they have to build up all these arms? Why did they have to go into Afghanistan? Why can't they relax just a little bit about Eastern Europe? Why do they try every door to see if it is locked?"[4] The Soviets, several times shortly before the invasion, had staged conversations with the Afghan leadership suggesting that they had no desire to intervene, even as the Politburo was—with much hesitation—considering such an intervention. Though some have argued that US financial assistance to Afghan dissidents, including Islamists and other militants, prior to the invasion; along with a Soviet desire to protect the leftist Afghan government, helped convince the Soviets to intervene, the Sovietts ironically brutally murdered the Afghan President and his son, replacing him with a puppet regime, immediately after the invasion for fear that the US had secretly been collaborating with him.[5]
One of the CIA's longest and most expensive covert operations was the supplying of billions of dollars in arms to the Afghan mujahideen militants.[6] The CIA provided assistance to the fundamentalist insurgents through the Pakistani secret services, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), in a program called Operation Cyclone. Somewhere between $3–$20 billion in U.S. funds were funneled into the country to train and equip troops with weapons.
According to the "Progressive South Asia Exchange Net," claiming to cite an article in Le Nouvel Observateur, U.S. policy, unbeknownst even to the Mujahideen, was part of a larger strategy of aiming "to induce a Soviet military intervention."[7] The article includes a brief interview with Carter's National Security Advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, in which he is quoted as saying that the US provided aid to the mujahideen prior to the Soviet invasion in order to delibrately provoke one. Brzezinski himself has denied the accuracy of the interview.[8] According to Brzezinski, an NSC working group on Afghanistan wrote several reports on the deteriorating situation in 1979, but President Carter ignored them until the Soviet intervention destroyed his illusions. Brzezinski has stated that the US provided communications equipment and limited financial aid to the mujahideen prior to the "formal" invasion, but only in response to the Soviet deployment of forces to Afghanistan and the 1978 coup, and with the intention of preventing further Soviet encroachment in the region.[9] Two declassified documents signed by Carter shortly before the invasion do authorize the provision "unilaterally or through third countries as appropriate support to the Afghan insurgents either in the form of cash or non-military supplies" and the "worldwide" distribution of "non-attributable propaganda" to "expose" the leftist Afghan government as "despotic and subservient to the Soviet Union" and to "publicize the efforts of the Afghan insurgents to regain their country's sovereignty," but the records also show that the provision of arms to the rebels did not begin until 1980.[10][11]
That's hilarious. Right after you give two examples the West forcible imposing our morals and culture on Afghans, you claim we don't forcibly impose our morals and culture on Afghans.
Also in response to claims that Afghan's elections were a fraud, you claim voter turn out as proof of their success. Sure Cannuck... the elections were so successful, some regions had more than 100% turn out.
Afghan Parliament Election 2010: Voter Fraud, Ballot-Stuffing Witnessed In Wardak Afghanistan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/18/afghan-parliament-electio_n_722123.html
Afghanistan's fraudulent elections are well documented.
Track Afghan Election Fraud Without Going To Afghanistan | Danger Room | Wired.com
Even right wing pundits admit Afghanistan's elections are fraudulent..
Frum Forum
Turning a Blind Eye to Afghan Election Fraud | FrumForum
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Try reading a different article, one that cover that aspect, this is one of many but it should give you the general background.
(in part)
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Some Real History
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Since feudal times the landholding system in Afghanistan had remained unchanged, with more than 75 percent of the land owned by big landlords who comprised only 3 percent of the rural population. In the mid-1960s, democratic revolutionary elements coalesced to form the People’s Democratic Party (PDP). In 1973, the king was deposed, but the government that replaced him proved to be autocratic, mismanaged, and unpopular. It in turn was forced out in 1978 after a massive demonstration in front of the presidential palace, and after factions of the army intervened on the side of the demonstrators.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] The military officers who took charge invited the PDP to form a new government under the leadership of Noor Mohammed Taraki, a poet and novelist. This is how a Marxist-led coalition of national democratic forces came into office. “It was a totally indigenous happening. Not even the CIA blamed the USSR for it,” writes John Ryan, a retired professor at the University of Winnipeg, who was conducting an agricultural research project in Afghanistan at about that time.
The Taraki government proceeded to legalize labor unions, and set up a minimum wage, a progressive income tax, a literacy campaign, and programs that gave ordinary people greater access to health care, housing, and public sanitation. Fledgling peasant cooperatives were started and price reductions on some key foods were imposed.
The government also continued a campaign begun by the king to emancipate women from their age-old tribal bondage. It provided public education for girls and for the children of various tribes.
A report in the San Francisco Chronicle (17 November 2001) noted that under the Taraki regime Kabul had been “a cosmopolitan city. Artists and hippies flocked to the capital. Women studied agriculture, engineering and business at the city’s university. Afghan women held government jobs—-in the 1980s, there were seven female members of parliament. Women drove cars, traveled and went on dates. Fifty percent of university students were women.”
The Taraki government moved to eradicate the cultivation of opium poppy. Until then Afghanistan had been producing more than 70 percent of the opium needed for the world’s heroin supply. The government also abolished all debts owed by farmers, and began developing a major land reform program. Ryan believes that it was a “genuinely popular government and people looked forward to the future with great hope.”
But serious opposition arose from several quarters. The feudal landlords opposed the land reform program that infringed on their holdings. And tribesmen and fundamentalist mullahs vehemently opposed the government’s dedication to gender equality and the education of women and children.
Because of its egalitarian and collectivist economic policies the Taraki government also incurred the opposition of the US national security state. Almost immediately after the PDP coalition came to power, the CIA, assisted by Saudi and Pakistani military, launched a large scale intervention into Afghanistan on the side of the ousted feudal lords, reactionary tribal chieftains, mullahs, and opium traffickers.
A top official within the Taraki government was Hafizulla Amin, believed by many to have been recruited by the CIA during the several years he spent in the United States as a student. In September 1979, Amin seized state power in an armed coup. He executed Taraki, halted the reforms, and murdered, jailed, or exiled thousands of Taraki supporters as he moved toward establishing a fundamentalist Islamic state. But within two months, he was overthrown by PDP remnants including elements within the military.
It should be noted that all this happened before the Soviet military intervention. National security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski publicly admitted--months before Soviet troops entered the country--that the Carter administration was providing huge sums to Muslim extremists to subvert the reformist government. Part of that effort involved brutal attacks by the CIA-backed mujahideen against schools and teachers in rural areas.
In late 1979, the seriously besieged PDP government asked Moscow to send a contingent of troops to help ward off the mujahideen (Islamic guerrilla fighters) and foreign mercenaries, all recruited, financed, and well-armed by the CIA. The Soviets already had been sending aid for projects in mining, education, agriculture, and public health. Deploying troops represented a commitment of a more serious and politically dangerous sort. It took repeated requests from Kabul before Moscow agreed to intervene militarily.
[/FONT][/FONT]http://www.michaelparenti.org/afghanistan%20story%20untold.html
(in part)
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Some Real History
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Since feudal times the landholding system in Afghanistan had remained unchanged, with more than 75 percent of the land owned by big landlords who comprised only 3 percent of the rural population. In the mid-1960s, democratic revolutionary elements coalesced to form the People’s Democratic Party (PDP). In 1973, the king was deposed, but the government that replaced him proved to be autocratic, mismanaged, and unpopular. It in turn was forced out in 1978 after a massive demonstration in front of the presidential palace, and after factions of the army intervened on the side of the demonstrators.[/FONT]
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif] The military officers who took charge invited the PDP to form a new government under the leadership of Noor Mohammed Taraki, a poet and novelist. This is how a Marxist-led coalition of national democratic forces came into office. “It was a totally indigenous happening. Not even the CIA blamed the USSR for it,” writes John Ryan, a retired professor at the University of Winnipeg, who was conducting an agricultural research project in Afghanistan at about that time.
The Taraki government proceeded to legalize labor unions, and set up a minimum wage, a progressive income tax, a literacy campaign, and programs that gave ordinary people greater access to health care, housing, and public sanitation. Fledgling peasant cooperatives were started and price reductions on some key foods were imposed.
The government also continued a campaign begun by the king to emancipate women from their age-old tribal bondage. It provided public education for girls and for the children of various tribes.
A report in the San Francisco Chronicle (17 November 2001) noted that under the Taraki regime Kabul had been “a cosmopolitan city. Artists and hippies flocked to the capital. Women studied agriculture, engineering and business at the city’s university. Afghan women held government jobs—-in the 1980s, there were seven female members of parliament. Women drove cars, traveled and went on dates. Fifty percent of university students were women.”
The Taraki government moved to eradicate the cultivation of opium poppy. Until then Afghanistan had been producing more than 70 percent of the opium needed for the world’s heroin supply. The government also abolished all debts owed by farmers, and began developing a major land reform program. Ryan believes that it was a “genuinely popular government and people looked forward to the future with great hope.”
But serious opposition arose from several quarters. The feudal landlords opposed the land reform program that infringed on their holdings. And tribesmen and fundamentalist mullahs vehemently opposed the government’s dedication to gender equality and the education of women and children.
Because of its egalitarian and collectivist economic policies the Taraki government also incurred the opposition of the US national security state. Almost immediately after the PDP coalition came to power, the CIA, assisted by Saudi and Pakistani military, launched a large scale intervention into Afghanistan on the side of the ousted feudal lords, reactionary tribal chieftains, mullahs, and opium traffickers.
A top official within the Taraki government was Hafizulla Amin, believed by many to have been recruited by the CIA during the several years he spent in the United States as a student. In September 1979, Amin seized state power in an armed coup. He executed Taraki, halted the reforms, and murdered, jailed, or exiled thousands of Taraki supporters as he moved toward establishing a fundamentalist Islamic state. But within two months, he was overthrown by PDP remnants including elements within the military.
It should be noted that all this happened before the Soviet military intervention. National security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski publicly admitted--months before Soviet troops entered the country--that the Carter administration was providing huge sums to Muslim extremists to subvert the reformist government. Part of that effort involved brutal attacks by the CIA-backed mujahideen against schools and teachers in rural areas.
In late 1979, the seriously besieged PDP government asked Moscow to send a contingent of troops to help ward off the mujahideen (Islamic guerrilla fighters) and foreign mercenaries, all recruited, financed, and well-armed by the CIA. The Soviets already had been sending aid for projects in mining, education, agriculture, and public health. Deploying troops represented a commitment of a more serious and politically dangerous sort. It took repeated requests from Kabul before Moscow agreed to intervene militarily.
[/FONT][/FONT]http://www.michaelparenti.org/afghanistan%20story%20untold.html