A two-state solution for Canada?

Unforgiven

Force majeure
May 28, 2007
6,770
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What is ''your ****'' exactly? The St-Lawrence river? Would that belong to you because your great-great-great-great ... ... ... great grand daddy won a contest of who had the biggest balls on the Plains of Abraham 250 years ago?

Shyte retarded morality software aside.

Everything in the country is mine. I don't mind if you want to share it and enjoy all the goodness of it. But if you think you can take it from me and say I can't use it and it's yours now, then my gun trumps your opinion.

f**k off!

Exactly!
wtf
 

wulfie68

Council Member
Mar 29, 2009
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First of all, he wasn't required to move out of the province. The laws of the province are as they are and he chose not to deal with them by studying elsewhere. This seems to have been his choice from what you describe.

And what you describe would happen in a two state solution anyway, getting more independence wouldn't mean the end of language laws. I don't see any sense in letting people slip through the law because they supposedly don't intend in staying in Quebec after. All immigrants would start saying ''they're just here a few years anyway''...

The reason we expect immigrants to learn French is for them to integrate and be active members of Quebec society.

Except that the laws embraced and enforced by Quebec have repeatedly been deemed unconstitutional by multiple courts (including the Supreme Court), which doesn't faze the Quebec gov't, who invoke the not-withstanding clause to justify this abuse of minority rights. No where else in the country is the most contentious part of the constitution invoked so often, and definately not in defiance of the official bi-lingualism policies that the rest of the country (albeit grudgingly in most places) accepts. You can rationalize Quebec's stance all you want but it is blatantly disciminatory to a degree that is unheard of anywhere else.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
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Quebec would:

  • A) treat the Natives like it was the 1800's
  • B) Still want money from Canada for the Arts
  • C) Become unstable after Natives reacted to being treated like second class citizens (again)
  • D) Become a Peacekeeping Hotspot after they realized they couldn't have the French Canadian portion of Canada's military
  • E) Suffer after all the guilt and bribe money from Ottawa dried up
Sounds like a plan. Let's do it.
 

El Barto

les fesses a l'aire
Feb 11, 2007
5,959
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Quebec
Oh God , way too much speculation about something no one can predict will that may happen when it does.
But while we are speculating, has anyone went as far in thier thought process to actually think that there would be a french federalist resistance ?
Do you realize there are actual Quebecers here that want to stay in Canada?
I see alot of moronic speculation that is more wishful thinking that Quebec would suffer . No one has the right answe but only think they do.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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Oh God , way too much speculation about something no one can predict will that may happen when it does.
But while we are speculating, has anyone went as far in thier thought process to actually think that there would be a french federalist resistance ?
Do you realize there are actual Quebecers here that want to stay in Canada?
I see alot of moronic speculation that is more wishful thinking that Quebec would suffer . No one has the right answe but only think they do.

My brother and his family are four of them.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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What would be your thoughts on Quebec voluntarily separating from Canada but sharing a common citizenship and passport?

Pros and cons?

No chance. They want to leave fine, take their share of the national debt and don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.
 

captain morgan

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 28, 2009
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A Mouse Once Bit My Sister
Do you realize there are actual Quebecers here that want to stay in Canada?

The answer to that is no, particularly in light that this group passively supports the separatist aspirations when it comes to extorting cash from the ROC. Don't expect anyone to maintain sympathies for those Quebecers that wish to remain when they have a clear track record of fence sitting when in terms of their personal best interests coming at the expense of the ROC.

I see alot of moronic speculation that is more wishful thinking that Quebec would suffer . No one has the right answe but only think they do.


Good point about the speculation; so how about we put it to the test then and find out exactly what kind of utopia it will morph into?

No chance. They want to leave fine, take their share of the national debt and don't let the door hit them in the ass on the way out.

Sovereign nations maintain their own passports and currencies. The proposal in the OP is nothing more than a kid that demands their independence in moving out of the family home but requires ma and pa to pay the rent and visits home to stock up on groceries.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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The tanks will stay and be converted to bulldozers to build the hydro dams to run the smelters that will kill the Taliban with cancer.
 

Volenti

New Member
Jan 30, 2011
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I'm kind of sad to see this proposed, if only because it highlights a lack of understanding of recent history that is, bluntly put, staggering. The idea of a dual state has already been suggested, debated, proposed and voted down. The entire point of the Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords was precisely the same idea being pitched here, just with slightly different labels. The reason it isn't going to fly is because the idea of "Two founding nations" has only really had currency in Quebec and Ontario. There isn't such a thing, constitutionally speaking, of "English Canada" and "French Canada". It is 10 equal provinces and the last time we went through this, the provinces, especially the west, made it abundantly clear that they weren't going to be turned into third class citizens, with Quebec and Ontario being the first and second class respectively.

The entire idea of organizing the country along French/English lines requires some serious wilful blindness in any case. Trying to lump British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick and Newfoundland & Labrador into some mass called English Canada simply ignores the political, constitutional, linguistic and cultural realities. The end result that Ontario and Quebec need to grasp about confederation is that the only non-negotiable constitutional position that the western and Atlantic provinces have is that there will be no special powers or distinct society or anything of the sort. In short, the provinces are willing to grant Quebec whatever they want, as long as they get the exact same powers, full stop.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I'm kind of sad to see this proposed, if only because it highlights a lack of understanding of recent history that is, bluntly put, staggering. The idea of a dual state has already been suggested, debated, proposed and voted down. The entire point of the Meech Lake and Charlottetown accords was precisely the same idea being pitched here, just with slightly different labels. The reason it isn't going to fly is because the idea of "Two founding nations" has only really had currency in Quebec and Ontario. There isn't such a thing, constitutionally speaking, of "English Canada" and "French Canada". It is 10 equal provinces and the last time we went through this, the provinces, especially the west, made it abundantly clear that they weren't going to be turned into third class citizens, with Quebec and Ontario being the first and second class respectively.

The entire idea of organizing the country along French/English lines requires some serious wilful blindness in any case. Trying to lump British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Nova Scotia, PEI, New Brunswick and Newfoundland & Labrador into some mass called English Canada simply ignores the political, constitutional, linguistic and cultural realities. The end result that Ontario and Quebec need to grasp about confederation is that the only non-negotiable constitutional position that the western and Atlantic provinces have is that there will be no special powers or distinct society or anything of the sort. In short, the provinces are willing to grant Quebec whatever they want, as long as they get the exact same powers, full stop.

Simple solution there. A multi-state solution. Each province and territory becomes and independent, sovereign state, with a mutually-agreed-on common citizenship. Needless to say that alone would mean a common passport and considerable collaboration between the new countries' citizenship ministries. But other than that, they would each essentially be independent nations, free to each have their own ambassadors to the UN, establish treaties with whatever other nation they want, share (or not) a common currency, military, etc. as far as each of the new countries feels comfortable, etc. Essentially, while the Canadian passport would continue to exist and we'd all continue to maintain a common Canadian citizenship and thus the freedom to travel wherever we want from coast to coast to coast without restriction, still we'd only get to vote for the government of the country in which we reside at the time of the election, and each country would have its own government of course.

Quebec would:

  • A) treat the Natives like it was the 1800's
  • B) Still want money from Canada for the Arts
  • C) Become unstable after Natives reacted to being treated like second class citizens (again)
  • D) Become a Peacekeeping Hotspot after they realized they couldn't have the French Canadian portion of Canada's military
  • E) Suffer after all the guilt and bribe money from Ottawa dried up
Sounds like a plan. Let's do it.

Interesting dream there.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,609
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Alberta
Oh God , way too much speculation about something no one can predict will that may happen when it does.
But while we are speculating, has anyone went as far in thier thought process to actually think that there would be a french federalist resistance ?
Do you realize there are actual Quebecers here that want to stay in Canada?
I see alot of moronic speculation that is more wishful thinking that Quebec would suffer . No one has the right answe but only think they do.

I absolutely do, but those Canadians would not have a say if the separtist movement got their way.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
17,878
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Ottawa, ON
Actually, the idea of each province and territory becoming a sovereign state while still sharing a common citizenship and passport would likely appeal to much of Canada. People would still be free to move around the country to be with family, find work, study, do business, etc. uninterrupted. Yet, each new country could pas new laws to its own liking. So for instance, Alberta could scrap mandatory French from its civil service, keep its natural resources, and sell them to whomever it wants to without interference from the East. BC would likely love the chance to build closer economic ties with the Pacific Rim, while the East coast might want to try to build closer ties with Europe, and all with the US. Yet with a common citizenship and passport, Canada as a barely political yet still vibrant cultural entity would continue to exist without threat to its existence, with all other international relations that each new country would be reaching out for merely supplementing, not replacing, the cultural relations we have already.

In short, we'd be removing some of the politics from our identity while still maintaining our cultural identity.

I absolutely do, but those Canadians would not have a say if the separtist movement got their way.

Sure they would. With a common citizenship, many might want to move out of Quebec if it starts pasing barbaric laws. Not good for property values.
 

Retired_Can_Soldier

The End of the Dog is Coming!
Mar 19, 2006
12,609
1,507
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61
Alberta
Actually, the idea of each province and territory becoming a sovereign state while still sharing a common citizenship and passport would likely appeal to much of Canada. People would still be free to move around the country to be with family, find work, study, do business, etc. uninterrupted. Yet, each new country could pas new laws to its own liking. So for instance, Alberta could scrap mandatory French from its civil service, keep its natural resources, and sell them to whomever it wants to without interference from the East. BC would likely love the chance to build closer economic ties with the Pacific Rim, while the East coast might want to try to build closer ties with Europe, and all with the US. Yet with a common citizenship and passport, Canada as a barely political yet still vibrant cultural entity would continue to exist without threat to its existence, with all other international relations that each new country would be reaching out for merely supplementing, not replacing, the cultural relations we have already.

In short, we'd be removing some of the politics from our identity while still maintaining our cultural identity.

Would not work.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,666
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Northern Ontario,
If you ever get a chance, and you can find it in a library somewhere...read a book called "The Quebec Plot" by Leo Heaps.
Written some years after the October crisis....1979 I believe...
Interesting book...