Israel - The Right to exist as a State?

[darkbeaver]

Does Israel have a right to exist? The question is preposterous. It is already in existance, right or not. Same as rust or dandruff or arse boils, all enjoy existance despite none giving a damn about rights. Israel enjoys this privilage of the relative moment but none can see the future clearly. But we can sure as hell bet on it.

 

[YukonJack]

Does Israel have a right to exist?

Of course NOT.

That right belongs to countries like Zimbabwe, Somalia, Congo and Iran, just to name few.

 

[darkbeaver]

This is one of those discussions that can be discussed without being hijacked.[/QUOT

Your post is a old hijacking ploy.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

This is one of those discussions that can be discussed without being hijacked.[/QUOT

Your post is a old hijacking ploy.

I actually meant can't, but who cares.

 

[Cliffy]

And if Israel has a right to exist because some ancient book claims they once lived there 2 thousand years ago, then I ask again, "Do the indigenous people of the Americas have a right to their own homeland(s)?"

 

[petros]

And if Israel has a right to exist because some ancient book claims they once lived there 2 thousand years ago, then I ask again, "Do the indigenous people of the Americas have a right to their own homeland(s)?"

We are only the "caretakers" Cliffy. Just not very good ones.

There is no claim from the old book from 2000 years ago. None, zero, zip, nada!

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

And if Israel has a right to exist because some ancient book claims they once lived there 2 thousand years ago, then I ask again, "Do the indigenous people of the Americas have a right to their own homeland(s)?"

This is where the argument gets pointy headed.

The Jewish people were given a homeland after the second world war. Book or not, they are there and no one is saying that the Palestinians should be deported to Jordan (ahem as if they'd have them). Israel has a right to exist, the quicker the knuckle dragging freedom fighters and jew hating twits get that through their heads a lot less people will die.

 

[petros]

This is where the argument gets pointy headed.

The Jewish people were given a homeland after the second world war.

A limited one thanks to a lot of butchering, assinations and terrorism. They already had a free state open to them which gave them all the security and rights they needed, some took the opportunity and many didn't.

Who gave them a right to expand and run a military occupation beyond those limits?

 

[darkbeaver]

This is where the argument gets pointy headed.

The Jewish people were given a homeland after the second world war. Book or not, they are there and no one is saying that the Palestinians should be deported to Jordan (ahem as if they'd have them). Israel has a right to exist, the quicker the knuckle dragging freedom fighters and jew hating twits get that through their heads a lot less people will die.[/QUOTE

Giving forigne land or goods that you do not own (stolen property) to a party in payment for undisclosed services renderered for undeclared reasons hardly constitutes what we normally think of as exercise of an inherant nation building right despite its popular employment. The privilage to exist must be earned every day in every way again and again in the eyes and hearts of your neighbours. Almost every culture on earth knows this and accepts it or they rightly feel the wrath of those same neighbours. Jews have no right to a homeland by virtue of Jewishness anymore than Catholics or Hindus or Dispensationalists or dog lovers.

 

[Colpy]

or they could have went to live and prosper in the JAR and still can today.

1. There is no Jewish Biblical claim to Palestine.
2. There is no legal Zionist claim to Palestine.

'Nuff said.

A large majority of people that live in Israel are Jews.....that GIVES them the right, any historical claim notwithstanding..........

 

[Mic]

Wow, i can't believe i am reading some of your comments?!!
Does Israel have the right to exist? Israel has as much "right" to exist as any other country.
But Palestinians claim the same land and the same rights and neither side are willing to give in. And thats gonna be till the end of times.

 

[Colpy]

A limited one thanks to a lot of butchering, assinations and terrorism. They already had a free state open to them which gave them all the security and rights they needed, some took the opportunity and many didn't.

Who gave them a right to expand and run a military occupation beyond those limits?

When the Arabs would not accept the agreement, and six Arab armies attacked them.........in other words, the ARABS invited their expansion.

And if Israel has a right to exist because some ancient book claims they once lived there 2 thousand years ago, then I ask again, "Do the indigenous people of the Americas have a right to their own homeland(s)?"

Are they the majority in the nation now?

World history is made up of shifting populations, one layer atop another.........

 

[darkbeaver]

A large majority of people that live in Israel are Jews.....that GIVES them the right, any historical claim notwithstanding..........

No that does not give them anything it merely establishes a precedent or a beachhead if you like. This beachhead could have been very teftly and tactfully defended in the early days. However it is abundantly clear at this time that they had no intention of peaceful coexistance with the indigenous at all. Rights are earned not given.

 

[petros]

A large majority of people that live in Israel are Jews.....that GIVES them the right, any historical claim notwithstanding..........

Then Taiwan which is a majority of Chinese should be part of China? How about Switzerland tacked on to Germany since the majority are German?

The majority of Palestine is who? Palestinians? So if you claim Israel occupied "territories" were won in battle, then Palestine has the RIGHT to defend themselves from the invading Jews and blast the **** out of Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine and free to accept aid from whoever steps up to the plate.

There is no historical claim or biblical claim.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Petros your dislike of Jews does well to nullify your argument.

 

[petros]

Is that a last ditch effort?

 

[darkbeaver]

It smelled like a desperate last ditch effort.

 

[CUBert]

I agree

 

[darkbeaver]

Of course nothing more needs to be said about the attendance of Stephen Harper, who gleefully betrayed Canada by stating unequivocally that Israel's interests would trump Canada's so long as he was prime minister.Postscript on the New McCarthyism | rabble.ca

 

[MHz]

deported to Jordan (ahem as if they'd have them).

The portion that ended up in Jordan when the Jews chased some 650,000 off their own land starting in Nov/47 were even given voting rights so your argument seems to be without merit.

Israel has never lived upto the conditions of UN resolution 273 so their statehood (as recognized by the UN) should have been revoked.