Long Gun Registry -Yes- No

[Goober]

Who would you propose to do an "independant" report on this, & in what time frame?

Welll the Libs had enough time and Harper as he so often stated about how useless it was could have done this years ago - He prefers to use this as a wedge issue - No more no less - Not a leader - a divider.

I talk to a lot of cons - I live in AB ( Albertastan) and they are really getting turned off on Harper

 

[Ron in Regina]

What I'm asking is who can be appointed by whom to conduct an "independent"
report....that won't be called biased because of who they are, or whom appointed
them to conduct the report? It's polarized enough, that anything "independent"
will be called biased by whatever side the report goes against, no matter which
way a decision on this falls, would be my guess.

 

[Goober]

What I'm asking is who can be appointed by whom to conduct an "independent"
report....that won't be called biased because of who they are, or whom appointed
them to conduct the report? It's polarized enough, that anything "independent"
will be called biased by whatever side the report goes against, no matter which
way a decision on this falls, would be my guess.

Is that in itself not a commentary on the Politics of division within the country on this and many other issues?

No wonder the majority of Canadians are tired of Pols and want minorities - Short leash and electrified is my choice.

 

[Colpy]

And the Liberals, this time the Lying, Moronic, Deceptive Dicks known as the Young Liberals are busily engaging in the old gun control shuffle.

Check out the poster.

The horror! Steven Harper supports free and easy access to assauly weapons! (I do, but Steve does not! )

This after McGuinty made the ludicrous accusation that the CPC has ties to the NRA.

Lies, BS, crap, arrogance and stupidity........

BTW, the rifle on the poster? It is a Ruger SP22...........................a .22 Long Rifle rimfire plinking gun. You know, a squirrel shooter, a tin can holer, the kind of gun we used to casually hand over to a 12 year old for an afternoon's fun in the back 40.........

But don't let that influence you! It LOOKS so bad!

Ooops! Losing it....forgot to add the link to the YLC poster

UPDATED AGAIN - GunVoteWatch: Hey, remember that pro-registry rally at Jack Layton's constit office? - Inside Politics

 

[wulfie68]

Harper is using this again as another example of his I am going to divide - I will not make parliament work - Personally I am really tired of this man. And I am not the only one who has that opinion -

Harper makes more enemies than supporters just because of his all or nothing, going for the jugular attitude.

So he's not a great unifying force like Trudeau or Chretien and is trying to create divisions to consolidate his power? er...wait... they did that too...

BTW, the rifle on the poster? It is a Ruger SP22...........................a .22 Long Rifle rimfire plinking gun. You know, a squirrel shooter, a tin can holer, the kind of gun we used to casually hand over to a 12 year old for an afternoon's fun in the back 40.........

But don't let that influence you! It LOOKS so bad!

Ooops! Losing it....forgot to add the link to the YLC poster

UPDATED AGAIN - GunVoteWatch: Hey, remember that pro-registry rally at Jack Layton's constit office? - Inside Politics

Colpy we all know that appearance is reality!!! We would be horrified if we knew the damage firing those deadly things did to our fragile young psyches...

 

[Colpy]

Quoting Goober
From Ont east for it - Manitoba west against it

Wonder why that is?

Simple answer is.....it ain't so.

Two seats I am very familiar with in New Brunswick.....Fundy-Royal. The Liberal Paul Zed saw his support cut in half in the 1997 election..........his support was almost tied by the Reform Party...in New Brunswick!!!! Why?

Gun control. He admitted the fact. The seat has been Conservative ever since.

In Miramichi (where all the registry jobs are) the Liberal Charlie Hubbard only managed to hold the seat by consistently defying the Liberal Party whip and voting against the Firearms Act.............

I think there are a few NDP and Liberal MPs that have been brought over to save the registry that are going to get a surprise education in the importance of the issue in the next election. And they aren't from Mantitoba west. The CPC is rubbing its hands in glee over this vote, win or lose! Perhaps even more so if they lose........

 

[Nuggler]

Watched a good portion of it - When anyone and I mean anyone give out stats like 70 years etc I wonder how accurate - Many did not register due to perosnal and strngly held beliefs -

Myself i am for it - It can be fixed - duplicates in numbers are easily and readily identifed on any compt data base -

From Ont east for it - Manitoba west against it

Wonder why that is?

Nope, sorry Goober.

Rural for abolition, and urban, more or less for retention. Don't have the stats, but they have been ;up on the CBC in recent past.

IF what they say is true, and it costs about couple million a year now to run it, why not keep it? I have no problem registering my long guns, and don't own any handguns. It's the goddam...............HAVE TO KEEP LOCKED UP, AMMO SEPARATE, BLAH BLAH, THAT PISSES ME OFF.

AND............NEVER say they are for self or home defense. We Canadians are not allowed to defend ourselves.:sad4:

 

[Machjo]

I've noticed that a few Dipper MPs have been whipped into shape by the party leadership. Ah, the joys of party discipline trumping voting on conscience and representing the local constituency.

 

[johnqpublic]

The long gun registry is a waste of time and money. Their is not enough crimes by people who actually own long guns, who register their long guns that commit the crimes we are looking for. It is a waste of resources, end it, spend the money on something more worth while. I would rather see these hunters and farmers spend the money on useful items that actually help the economy then an additional government job. Remember we the tax payer still make up what the people who register don't cover.

 

[Machjo]

The long gun registry is a waste of time and money. Their is not enough crimes by people who actually own long guns, who register their long guns that commit the crimes we are looking for. It is a waste of resources, end it, spend the money on something more worth while. I would rather see these hunters and farmers spend the money on useful items that actually help the economy then an additional government job. Remember we the tax payer still make up what the people who register don't cover.

This answer is too simplistic to say the least. On the one hand, i do tend to agree that it's probably better to scrap the registry. That said, the RCMP seems to support it based on some facts. The question is whether those facts are enough to validate its cost of course, or if some other investment might not achieve similar results at lower cost.

Then there is the political reality. Many Canadians seem to support the registry. Then it becomes a question of eliminating the registry in a politically palatable manner so as to get enough votes in the House to repeal it.

 

[Omicron]

This answer is too simplistic to say the least. On the one hand, i do tend to agree that it's probably better to scrap the registry. That said, the RCMP seems to support it based on some facts. The question is whether those facts are enough to validate its cost of course, or if some other investment might not achieve similar results at lower cost.

Then there is the political reality. Many Canadians seem to support the registry. Then it becomes a question of eliminating the registry in a politically palatable manner so as to get enough votes in the House to repeal it.

The problem isn't with a registry per se, because in fact it operates as a rather small part of the firearms control act. The problem is that it was poorly thought out and was written the way documents look when people were under pressure to slam something out as fast as they can, so by default they make it overly-inclusive of everything.

Currently the NDP are leaning towards letting it pass, yet they more than anyone want to see it modified, which has got them in a dilemma.

If the ruling minority government was pushing *for* a long gun registry, then the NDP could say, "Okay, we'll swing the vote your way if you make some changes to it", but the problem is that their swing vote is towards the opposition, which is pushing to keep the registry as it is.

It's a mess. The logical thing to do would be to toss the whole act at a team of Senators and tell them to work on it until it's right. That's what Senators are for.

And the smart thing for Harper to do if forced to keep the registry would be to do exactly that. He would say to the people, "Okay, I don't like this act, but the opposition is forcing me to keep it, so the next best thing is to send it to the Senate and have them re-write it until it makes sense", but that's what a governing leader with the nation's best interests at heart would do...

Somehow, I think Harper is instead going to use it as a cry-towel issue for an election, to say, "Boohoo, see what happens when I don't have a majority. That's why you've got to give me a majority government this time."

In other words, he's going to handle like someone what wants to be a Ruler more than he wants to Govern, regardless of what's really best for the nation. :sad4:

 

[Colpy]

This crap, Charlie Angus' "compromise" bill on firearms:

SWF [] Branch MEMO

Typically, this legislation, intended to ease gun confiscation in general, and the Ruger Mini 14 in particular, is promoted by a lefty that claims to be concerned with fixing the concerns of Canadians with the registry.......Angus even pooh-poohed the idea of gun confiscations as "paranoid" (ignoring recent Canadian history) while introducing legislation to make confiscation easier.........at the whim of a bureaucrat.

Shooters, when you hear the word "compromise" from the NDP or Liberals, start hiding your guns.....and sit down.

Absolutely unbelieveable!

And more evidence the Conservatives are our only hope:

Harper government delays firearms marking regulations - The Globe and Mail

 

[Unforgiven]

This crap, Charlie Angus' "compromise" bill on firearms:

SWF [] Branch MEMO

Typically, this legislation, intended to ease gun confiscation in general, and the Ruger Mini 14 in particular, is promoted by a lefty that claims to be concerned with fixing the concerns of Canadians with the registry.......Angus even pooh-poohed the idea of gun confiscations as "paranoid" (ignoring recent Canadian history) while introducing legislation to make confiscation easier.........at the whim of a bureaucrat.

Shooters, when you hear the word "compromise" from the NDP or Liberals, start hiding your guns.....and sit down.

Absolutely unbelieveable!

And more evidence the Conservatives are our only hope:

Harper government delays firearms marking regulations - The Globe and Mail

Shooters, when you hear the word "compromise" from the NDP or Liberals, start hiding your guns.....and sit down.

Sort of typical of the "law abiding "gun nut.

 

[Tonington]

Sort of typical of the "law abiding "gun nut.

 

[bobnoorduyn]

It is funny that in Edwardian society, gentlemen were armed and the police were not. Now we have not only just the opposite, but we are required to not be armed except under certain circumstances. The namby pamby effeminization of our society requires that we now be defenseless victims of any random acts of violence.

The groups that argue for the retention of the gun registry are, by and large, political lobby groups. The CACP holds great sway in the forum of, (uninformed) public opinion. They are a political lobby group. It is totally unethical for a government branch whose job it is to enforce the law to lobby for stronger laws to enforce. Also unethical is for them to receive a donation of over $100,000 from CGI, (supposedly for them to attend a Celine Dion concert),the very company that makes the software used for the registry. So unethical is this that their director of ethics quit. So we believe the CACP is working for the betterment of society?

Toronto mayor, David Miller, used the police force as his personal Gestapo to harass senior citizen firearms owners. Lefty Chief, Bill Blair was only too happy to oblige. Firearm owners over the age of 75 were subject to search and seizure, any and all infractions were vigorously enforced. Forfeiture of firearms was punishment for simple paperwork errors.

Registration leads to confiscation 100% of the time, that is a historical fact worldwide, and is the only reason for it. Allan Rock didn't state that directly, but it was in his words when, "I came to Ottawa with the firm belief that the only people in this country who should own guns are police and soldiers". He also said, “…protection of life is NOT a legitimate use for a firearm sir! Not! That is expressly ruled out.” Not only as an MP, but as Minister of Justice yet, his holding of the lives of the citizens he represents in such low esteem is not only misguided, but purely evil. Why should police officers have a sole monopoly on armed defense of self? Yes, that is why they carry firearms, they not only need not put themselves in harm’s way to defend you or I, but are often forbidden from doing so.

Most troubling though are the people in society who think it is their right and duty to impose their will on others without any good reason. Of course they try to justify their own reasons that they have either concocted in their simple minds, or are just following the lead of the brainwashers like obedient sheep.

He who says freedom should be regulated is usually the first to volunteer to be the regulator. The registry debate is about freedom, it has been used nefariously to curtail freedom far more often than it has been used for its advertised purpose. Public safety was never its real purpose anyway, to believe that it was would be stupid beyond belief.

 

[Unforgiven]

Yeah freedom to sell guns to gangbangers. :roll:

 

[bobnoorduyn]

Yeah freedom to sell guns to gangbangers. :roll:

Sure, the law has done such a fine job of stopping so it far hasn't it? Duh. Now here's a reality check: CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW. No one has been able to explain how turning otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals reduces real criminal activity. Or if guns cause criminal activity how cars cause people to drive drunk and cakes cause Rosie O'Donnell to get fat.

 

[Trotz]

Sure, the law has done such a fine job of stopping so it far hasn't it? Duh. Now here's a reality check: CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW. No one has been able to explain how turning otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals reduces real criminal activity. Or if guns cause criminal activity how cars cause people to drive drunk and cakes cause Rosie O'Donnell to get fat.

In Vancouver, it's widely known that the Hells Angels deal in firearms.

The problem, as you mentioned, is that no one is going to risk imprisonment and a criminal record over an illegal firearm. Plus the Democratic-Marxists in the B.C. Supreme Court are always waiting for the opportunity to crucify (to set an example) a middle-aged professional for owning an illegal firearm.

But for a hardened criminal who has served time? What difference does it make other than serving 2 months in jail?
It's a well calucated risk for a criminal whose existence and means of subsistence is based on home invasions, robberies, et al, and at worse case, they get a 2 month vacation in our correctional facilities which have video games and televisions.

 

[Unforgiven]

Sure, the law has done such a fine job of stopping so it far hasn't it? Duh. Now here's a reality check: CRIMINALS DON'T OBEY THE LAW. No one has been able to explain how turning otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals reduces real criminal activity. Or if guns cause criminal activity how cars cause people to drive drunk and cakes cause Rosie O'Donnell to get fat.

Stopping smoking hasn't cured Cancer but it's still a good idea.

The law only allows the police to catch and bring to court criminals. The law in and of itself doesn't stop any one from doing anything. Gun laws are simple regulation of guns. The ideal being to reduce the amount of guns used in violent crime. If someone can't abide the simple regulations they shouldn't be in possession of a gun. Why is that so difficult for you? I can own a car without becoming a criminal. I can get a mortgage, buy a house, pay off the mortgage in a timely manner all without resorting to becoming a criminal doing it. Why is it that having to register your gun is so damn difficult for you, you have to make this much fuss about it? It's nothing compared to buying a house. Unless you want to give that gun to someone else who can't have a gun legally.

 

[Colpy]

Stopping smoking hasn't cured Cancer but it's still a good idea.

The law only allows the police to catch and bring to court criminals. The law in and of itself doesn't stop any one from doing anything. Gun laws are simple regulation of guns. The ideal being to reduce the amount of guns used in violent crime. If someone can't abide the simple regulations they shouldn't be in possession of a gun. Why is that so difficult for you? I can own a car without becoming a criminal. I can get a mortgage, buy a house, pay off the mortgage in a timely manner all without resorting to becoming a criminal doing it. Why is it that having to register your gun is so damn difficult for you, you have to make this much fuss about it? It's nothing compared to buying a house. Unless you want to give that gun to someone else who can't have a gun legally.

BECAUSE GUN OWNERS ARE NOT EVEN GRANTED THE SAME RIGHTS ENJOYED BY CRIMINALS

I keep telling people that, but they seem incapable of hearing.......Sorry for the purple yelling, but this gets incredibly frustrating.

Your local gang-banger can not have his home "inspected" unless the police can convince a judge to issue a warrant based on solid evidence that there is evidence pertaining to a specific crime therein.....fishing expeditions are most assuredly NOT allowed as they are banned under the Charter as unreasonable search.

But my home can be "inspected", and if I refuse, the refusal itself is reason for the judge to issue a warrant to search, with there being absolutely no evidence of any crime committed whatsoever.

Your local gang-banger, while his home is being searched (on a warrant issued only with reason of evidence pertaining to a particular crime) can NOT be expected to answer any questions whatsoever, can NOT be coerced into helping the officers, can NOT be forced to give evidence against himself, as that is a violation of his Charter rights.......

But while my home is inspected, I am ordered to answer all questions and offer all aid to the inspectors, on criminal penalty for refusal.

Gun owners are LESS than second class citizens, they are treated like no citizen at all.....

This all against a group that statistically has a murder rate about one half of that among the general population.....in other words, all this is aimed at a group that is the least likely to commit heinous crimes.......that is licensed gun owners. (despite being overwhelmingly of the gender that most commits murder)

Do you have ANY idea how insulting that is??? Then to have the brain dead ****heads of the NDP promise to "compromise" with a bill to relieve the concerns of gun owners.....and then they introduce a bill that leaves us MORE at the mercy of anti-gun bureaucrats, a bill that does absolutely nothing to reassure us, except to more deeply invade the privacy of those that served as members of the armed forces......

This is an attempt to destroy a culture that our politicians find politically incorrect and faintly threatening.

That simple.