Tar sands = filthy dirty bitumen "oil"
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
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Yes, so that would make your comment retarded...there is plenty of topical effect. Did you not read the new paper, heavy metal pollutants falling out from emissions?
Definitely retarded. Here's your chance to take back what you said, or go with the retarded comment. At this point, you don't have much to lose anyways.
Depends on what chemical species you're talking about.
No, there's pollution in both. Your comparisons are just retarded, much like the rest of your comments. I never said Toronto doesn't have pollution...
Well, I have a paper that I'm reading right now that took VOC measurements of oil sands operations for 76 chemical species of VOC's. This is something even the regulatory agencies don't have data for... For some chemicals the oil sands are 397X higher than the undisturbed boreal forest around the oil sands.
So I wanted to give you a chance to submit a clear question before I demolish more of your retarded nonsense.
no sh*t exlax...... then if you're not evading taxes, then answer Avro's question. You figure that those that complain about the oil industry should not be using oil products, then if you're complaining about Canada's high taxes, then get the hell out of Canada and renounce your Canadian citizenship.
So, here's your choice:
Buy oil from the loonies in Iran, thus funding Hamas and Hezbollah, to say nothing of their peaceful program to create a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.
Buy oil from Saudi Arabia, so the rich idiots there can spend billions on promoting Islamist fundamentalist loonies that like to fly planes into NY skyscrapers.
Buy oil from Venezuela, thus supporting the biggest nut case in South America, and helping de-stabilize same....
Or buy oil from fellow Canadians in Alberta...........thus funding the Canadian government equalization programs, medicare, etc etc etc. Alberta oil keeps us all rich.
Take your pick. Careful now, you have to think.
Buy oil from the loonies in Iran, thus funding Hamas and Hezbollah, to say nothing of their peaceful program to create a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.
Buy oil from Saudi Arabia, so the rich idiots there can spend billions on promoting Islamist fundamentalist loonies that like to fly planes into NY skyscrapers.
Buy oil from Venezuela, thus supporting the biggest nut case in South America, and helping de-stabilize same....
Or buy oil from fellow Canadians in Alberta...........thus funding the Canadian government equalization programs, medicare, etc etc etc. Alberta oil keeps us all rich.
Take your pick. Careful now, you have to think.
It makes me a hypocrit because I'm concerned about the environment around the oilsands?
If you say so.
If you can show me where I stated that mankind should stop using oil tommorrow you may have a point, you can't, so you don't.
I'll just assume, unless you want to share. Keep paying them taxes.
Thanks.:canada:
Guess no response on the whole fraud thing....oh well.
So, here's your choice:
Buy oil from the loonies in Iran, thus funding Hamas and Hezbollah, to say nothing of their peaceful program to create a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv.
Buy oil from Saudi Arabia, so the rich idiots there can spend billions on promoting Islamist fundamentalist loonies that like to fly planes into NY skyscrapers.
Buy oil from Venezuela, thus supporting the biggest nut case in South America, and helping de-stabilize same....
Or buy oil from fellow Canadians in Alberta...........thus funding the Canadian government equalization programs, medicare, etc etc etc. Alberta oil keeps us all rich.
Take your pick. Careful now, you have to think.
Who says anything about not buying Canadian oil? The only thing I would like is we don't frig up the enviroment in the process.
Why is that attitude so hard to comprehend?
I did answer his question and any detils regarding my arangements are none of your bloody busines.
I figure?... They're hypocrites, plain and simple. What's worse, some of teh more notable hypocrites are plain ignorant of the realities associated with this issue... Combine these 2 things and you have the basic recipe of an ecotard.... And by the way, what I am complaining about Canada's tax system relates to those morons that are whining that there are people in the world that have more than them, therefore the solution is to take their money.
So, learn to read before you shoot your mouth off
It matters not WHY you're complaining about the tax system,, just like it, as far as you're concerned, doesn't matter why someone is complaining about the oil industry. If your complaining, then get the hell out of Canada.
There is a huge business that legally shelters Canadian money in jurisdictions that are, shall we say, tax-friendly.
The money is getting the hell out of Canada gerry.
ahhhhhh...I see... take advantage of Canadian social programs, but don't pay your share by using loopholes. Got it....... another leach.
So you reduced your taxes (carbon footprint)....but you still pay(use oil).
There is no way you work and live in Canada and not pay Canadian tax.
One way or another you are contributing to Canada's social programs....the ones you hate.
However, because I don't deal in silly absolutes like you do. I don't consider you a hypocrit at all....at least not here.
The argument you present to me is as inane as the one I presented to you.
Take care.:smile:
So, it's a race to the bottom. As long as there's one place that's worse, you can always feel free to get nastier.
Edmonton — The Canadian Press Published on Thursday, Sep. 16, 2010 9:38PM EDT Last updated on Thursday, Sep. 16, 2010 9:51PM EDT
The fish are hard to look at.
One whitefish has a golfball-sized tumour bulging from its side. Another is simply missing part of its spine, its tail growing from a stumpy rear end.
One has no snout. Another is coloured a lurid red instead of a healthy cream. Others are covered with lesions and still others are bent and crooked from deformed vertebrae.
All were taken from Lake Athabasca, downstream from the oil sands in northern Alberta, and were on display Thursday. All are reasons, say a group of scientists and aboriginals, for the federal government
to conduct an independent study on what's happening to the Athabasca River and its watershed after decades of industry expansion.“A lot of people are afraid to eat fish from the lake,” said Robert Grandjambe of Fort Chipewyan, which is also downstream of the oil sands
. “It's time we had a proper monitoring study done.”Prominent scientists, two area doctors, five past and present First Nations leaders, a local member of the legislature, the mayor of the Wood Buffalo municipality that includes Fort McMurray, and other area residents all support a letter requesting such a study that was sent to Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Thursday.
The fish aren't part of any formal scientific survey. But local anglers say the number of such deformed and disturbing catches is growing.
“I never even saw deformed fish in my younger days,” said Mr. Grandjambe.
Also growing are the number of studies that link the oil sands industry and increasing levels of contaminants.
“I'm hoping that the prime minister will listen and some of the other politicians involved will say, ‘This data is convincing enough,“’ said University of Alberta biologist David Schindler, who has published a couple of such studies himself. “We've got to get closure on this and bring all of these suggestive studies together in a study that documents ... a possible link between fish health and human health.”
Mr. Schindler said problems with fish started in the 1980s. “I began to hear complaints about bad taste, suspicious tumours and things like that.”
A 1996 study on northern river basins called for a specific examination on contaminants and health.
“Nothing was ever done.”
In 2007, Environment Canada completed work showing high levels of deformities in fish embryos exposed to oil sands. In 2008, Mr. Schindler himself did research that led to two published studies showing that levels of hydrocarbons — some carcinogenic — and toxic heavy metals, including mercury and lead, are both growing and linked to industry.
That same year, a study for the Canadian Council for Ministers of the Environment concluded that 12 per cent of Alberta's forest soils had probably reached the limit of how much acid they could hold, probably because of the oil sands.
Mr. Schindler said he is “very confident” that the fish presented Thursday, all caught by local fishers, demonstrate that the number of deformities is on the rise.
The Alberta government monitors the area's environment, largely through information provided by industry, but Mr. Schindler said the province's program lacks transparency and credibility. He points out that the industry's own figures in the federal pollutant registry show hundreds of kilograms of contaminants are released into the environment annually, yet don't show up in provincial reports.
“Any program that can't detect hundreds of kilograms of pollutants going into the atmosphere is an incompetent program.”
Mr. Grandjambe agreed that it's time for the Alberta government to step aside and let Ottawa do the work.
“There's so much uncertainty and so much distrust of the government right now,” he said.
“Fort Chipewyan is not healthy. A lifestyle is being stolen away.”
No gerry, you don't see...
If by "share" you mean you take the total costs of the social services and divided that # by the actual # of working Canadians, then I pay a double digit multiple of my "share" and subsidize you to boot.
I see that you are one of those guys that is owed something just 'cause you paid taxes once... Is that right?
I never reduced my carbon foot print by taking advantage of tax shelters Avro, in fact, one might make the argument that I added to the footprint.
I never said that, did I?.. Don't mistake gerry's assumptions for anything other than what they really are.
Yes I am, although I can't recall stating that I hated them.
Funny comment about you believing that you don't deal in absolutes.... Your position on the oil sands and AGW are pretty absolute
That is a fair comment... Touche
I was comparing the arguments, sorry if I didn't explaind it sufficiently
Just clarifying.
That's fine I'll make note of that.
You don't know my position on the oilsands, you haven't listened.
My position on the science of AGW is based on the consensous of scientists. If that changes then so to will my position.
Which is why I said it.;-)
I'm discussing it with the geotech I live with right now and he gets quite a laugh at your comments and ignorance on the subject.
For one thing the topsoil or overburden on top of the oilsands cant be compared to the topsoil your trying to compare it with so all your talk about microbes is moot unless you get a study done on the same topsoil that was removed prior to stripping.
So in a nutshell,the topsoil now is better then the topsoil that was removed,theres not many microbes or anything else in overburden over an oilsands deposit.
Comparing it to topsoil from 20 miles away is bad science.
I dont need an unbiased report,I see it every day as does everyone else that works on the property,and anyone in mining can and will tell you that wildlife is more abundant on any mining property as it is protected with no shooting zones and studied to death so you lose that one to.
So lets recap,the soil is comparable now or better to soil that isnt situated over an oilsands deposit,better then the soil that WAS situated over an oilsands deposit,wildlife is abundant,both these are apparent to anyone who is here or who has done studies here,maybe you should come see for yourself,they also announced that suncor will be showcasing the words first tailings pond that's been reclaimed,I mentioned this to you the other day,now you can watch it on the media for yourself.
I was surprised to hear this announcement on the radio today but they have to do something to shut up the folks that keep whining about how bad the oilsands are when they have no clue whats going on here.
You keep mentioning nutrient cycling but your useing the boreal forest that isnt on top of any oilsand deposit so thats an epic fail,you dont have to be a scientist to see that,just someone who has worked here.I'm pretty sure the hundreds of well schooled intelligent scientists we have here are a bit better informed then someone who isnt.:lol:
Stick to your fish back east or whatever it is you study,your fairly ignorant as far as oilsands go IMO.
I hope they do the studies on the Athabasca also,find out where the toxins are coming from and what their baselines are.Keep in mind theres 5 pulpmills upstream from the oilsands.
Lets get the numbers down,thats what we do in Alberta,we make things happen,we dont sit around whining and complaining.
We find problems and fix them and thats because we have people from all over the world coming here to work and they are the best of the best,thats what good money does,it attracts good smart people.
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They say the area that is mineable in Alberta is about 3400 square kilometers. How much of that has already been strip mined? That is a hell of a lot of top soil to replace. I am wondering where all this top soil is coming from. Do they have to strip mine top soil from other areas to reclaim the tar sands? What percentage of the area already mined has been reclaimed and how much of it do they plan to reclaim?
The tar sands will shut down the same day as the last planet killing unsustainable indoor weed grow op is sacrificed by the brainwashed "Greens".
No kush for you!
No kush for you!
Any top soil on any lease or anything to be excavated is allways saved,even pipelines.
Reclamation is ongoing and is only now starting to happen at the oilsands on a huge basis.They have to reclaim any land disturbed by any mining activity,thats the law.They used to use the old pits for new tailings ponds but now with our new technology they will be able to use only one pond in each operation and reclaim all the rest.
Suncor has the TM on this new TRO to reduce tailings,it will be prevalant in all oilsands operations now and is in the testing stage in all operations but suncor,where it's going full scale on each pond.The pond i'm at has been halved in a year allready with dredging going on 24/7 to remove the mature fine tailings which would have taken 20 years or more to settle without polymer injection which allows it to release water within 24 hours and be spread out to dry and be reused for roadwork or fill in 2 weeks.
They stockpile soil horizons that they remove for use later. They then mix forest floor litter or peat into the top soil on the reclaimed sites, and it still doesn't approach the same level of nutrients, because they've killed the fungal community during the stockpiling of the soil. The soil community works because nutrients are cycled between the soil horizons, so when you physically separate them, you kill them. Bacteria will come back more easily, but fungal communities aren't easily replaced.