Judge Cites Charter Preamble - Supremacy of God Recognized- Atheists - 0 - Religion

[SirJosephPorter]

So you would throw out all laws based upon Judeo Christian origin?

I would keep the laws which make sense from secular point of view and throw out those that don’t; it has nothing to do with Judeo-Christians ethics. Thus, the law about murder makes sense, so it stays (and is in accordance with Judeo-Christian ethics). The law on abortion doesn’t’ make sense, so it goes (and this goes against the Judeo Christian ethics).

The only criteria when formulating a law is whether it makes sense form secular, humanistic point of view, and not whether it is in accordance with Judeo Christian ethics.

As to this particular case, I agree with judge’s decision, but don’t agree with his reasoning. The reason Catholic school may choose its curriculum is that our Charter guarantees freedom of religion, it has nothing to do with the mention of God in the preamble.

 

[gerryh]

Religion denies science?

As far as the narrow and simple minded are concerned, yes it does.

Fairly often, yes, it does. Surely you're familiar with the story of Galileo, and Copernicus? How about creationism and its bastard child, intelligent design? Or a recent Pope's weaselly and conditional acceptance of evolution? Have you read MHz's attempts here to argue that Genesis gets everything right while simply denying that it gets things in entirely the wrong order? Or eanassir's fumbling attempts to use the Quran as a science book? I think Richard Dawkins is right, that religious belief is a delusion, and Christopher Hitchens is right, that religion poisons everything. The only reason Christianity isn't burning people at the stake for disagreeing with it these days is because, at least in the modern West, it no longer has the power of the state behind it. And you can thank the Enlightenment thinkers for that.

Just one question. Who was one of the first people to postulate the "Big Bang Theory"?

 

[petros]

What the hell is Judeo Christian? Either you are a Jew or a Christian there is no happy medium between two groups that hate each other.

 

[SirJosephPorter]

"The Judeo-Christian tradition is not the only foundation for tolerance between different peoples, or for harmony in a pluralistic society, but surveying the global scene today it is the most secure foundation currently on offer."

That is a blatantly biased statement with no basis in fact. There is no proof that a religious foundation of any kind is any more stable than one without. Almost all wars have been fought for religious reasons. Today, Iraq and Afghanistan are fought between Christians and Muslims and Christians are chomping at the bit to invade Iran. All the rhetoric to the contrary, all the propaganda is aimed at demonizing the Muslim faith and painting countries that have Islam as thjeir foundation as being archaic and barbaric. I have never been there, so I don't know what life is like over there, but I have a healthy suspicion of such a vicious and prolonged campaign against any group of people who we are at war with. In this I see an intentional attempt at justifying aggression and that has been the earmark of Christian backed wars since the inception of this religion. Thus to say that religion is a stabilizing influence in the world is a patent lie and just more propaganda to justify atrocities.
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Quite so, Cliffy, the guy is a moron. Christianity has a long established tradition of intolerance and persecution of people of other faiths. When Christians came into contact with a less developed culture in North America, they wiped out the culture almost without trace. The wiped out Indian religions, their languages, their way of life, they slaughtered Indians, all in the name of Christ. By today’s standard, it could only be considered a genocide.

And history is full of examples like this. History is also full of examples of tolerance and understanding shown by other cultures. Christians wiped out Indian civilization in North America in a couple of hundred years. By contrast, India was ruled by Muslim rulers for 800 years. At the end of 800 years, when Muslim rule finally ended, most of India was still Hindu. Hindu religion, the culture, the way of life, everything was intact. Today India is an overwhelmingly Hindu country.

So examples of tolerance and intolerance can be found in all cultures, in all religions Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on tolerance.

 

[petros]

The "God' reference is to "The Great Architect of the Universe".

"Tolerance" is an idealism that does not have root within the church but in the lodge.

 

[taxslave]

Since god is a myth there should be no mention of him in any any of our laws. No different than basing a law on an episode of Star Wars.

 

[petros]

I like the pre-amble. It puts me in second spot under the "The Great Architect of the Universe" but above the Queen, Govt or Cops. :canada:

 

[Cliffy]

I like the pre-amble. It puts me in second spot under the "The Great Architect of the Universe" but above the Queen, Govt or Cops. :canada:

I dare you to question their perceived authority over you, try to address them as your servant. They will get rather snooty real fast and try to intimidate you into submission. Very few people know enough about the charter to use it to get the "authorities to back down. At a protest rally in the Slocan Valley, I saw two plain clothed cops standing in the woods away from the main crowd. I approached them and asked who they represented. After giving me the run around for 15 minutes or so and my continued demand to know who they represented, they finally admitted that they represented "the people of Canada". I said, who do you think these people are, boat people? They both made a hasty retreat from the scene.

When I saw a cop with a video camera filming the people leaving the mountain side I walked right into the camera and smudged him with sage using an Eagle feather. He turned off the camera and walked down the hill. Peiople who think they have authority over you are powerless to do anything when challenged (except for the odd schmuck who will resort to violence.

 

[petros]

Three words Cliffy;

"I don't understand!"

 

[Machjo]

If you want to be technical about it, the fact that Canada was 'founded upon principles that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law...' does not state that we still do, or should recognize the supremacy of God.

It only states that's what we were founded upon.

If you want to get technical.

Good point. And even with that, 'God' is still a generic term in the English language for the monotheistic God, regardless of one's religious beliefs. Even Deists who reject any formal religion believe in God.

 

[Goober]

Show me where i said all wars were fought over religion. Religion is a destabilizing factor in the world, especially the fundamental, evangelical types. The crusades are still being fought and given half a chance we would be in the Inquisition in a heart beat if these clowns were given Cart Blanch. And if you want a few examples, just look at Ireland, Croatia and the Indian wars in America.

"That is a blatantly biased statement with no basis in fact. There is no proof that a religious foundation of any kind is any more stable than one without. Almost all wars have been fought for religious reasons"

You stated almost - please define "almost" is that 51/49 or 50 % plus 1 - what is almost -

Quite so, Cliffy, the guy is a moron. Christianity has a long established tradition of intolerance and persecution of people of other faiths. When Christians came into contact with a less developed culture in North America, they wiped out the culture almost without trace. The wiped out Indian religions, their languages, their way of life, they slaughtered Indians, all in the name of Christ. By today’s standard, it could only be considered a genocide.

And history is full of examples like this. History is also full of examples of tolerance and understanding shown by other cultures. Christians wiped out Indian civilization in North America in a couple of hundred years. By contrast, India was ruled by Muslim rulers for 800 years. At the end of 800 years, when Muslim rule finally ended, most of India was still Hindu. Hindu religion, the culture, the way of life, everything was intact. Today India is an overwhelmingly Hindu country.

So examples of tolerance and intolerance can be found in all cultures, in all religions Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on tolerance.

SJP

Again luv the little affection "Quite So"

Regardless - what you speak of did ocurr so your philosphy is based upon punishment of others based upon old history. Rather enlightening for a Liberal orientated person

Face it your belief system is based upon hatred of anything religious - pure and unadulterated biased hatred - no more - no then -

I would keep the laws which make sense from secular point of view and throw out those that don’t; it has nothing to do with Judeo-Christians ethics. Thus, the law about murder makes sense, so it stays (and is in accordance with Judeo-Christian ethics). The law on abortion doesn’t’ make sense, so it goes (and this goes against the Judeo Christian ethics).

The only criteria when formulating a law is whether it makes sense form secular, humanistic point of view, and not whether it is in accordance with Judeo Christian ethics.

As to this particular case, I agree with judge’s decision, but don’t agree with his reasoning. The reason Catholic school may choose its curriculum is that our Charter guarantees freedom of religion, it has nothing to do with the mention of God in the preamble.

SJP
As we have no laws on abortion there is nothing to throw out.

Now would you dispose of Ursury

Laws that are based upon "Do unto others"

 

[SirJosephPorter]

Good point. And even with that, 'God' is still a generic term in the English language for the monotheistic God, regardless of one's religious beliefs. Even Deists who reject any formal religion believe in God.

So I assume this would include the God of Applism. Applism is a religion I came up with (actually I had a revelation from God, that is how I came up with Applism). While it currently has following of only one (moi), I am hoping for world evangelization, same as Christians or Muslims.

 

[petros]

My workboots have treated me well and were always there when I needed support & protection for my sole.

 

[Goober]

So I assume this would include the God of Applism. Applism is a religion I came up with (actually I had a revelation from God, that is how I came up with Applism). While it currently has following of only one (moi), I am hoping for world evangelization, same as Christians or Muslims.

Well you know the old saying about Hope

You can Hope in one hand and Crap in the other - guess which one is filled first.

Besides - the core of your religion is riddled with holes.

My workboots have treated me well and were always there when I needed support & protection for my sole.

Sole as in Fish - The ancient symbolism is hidden in your writings.

 

[petros]

Well you know the old saying about Hope

You can Hope in one hand and Crap in the other - guess which one is filled first.

Besides - the core of your religion is riddled with holes.


Sole as in Fish - The ancient symbolism is hidden in your writings.

 

[lone wolf]

Revelation? I'll assume someone was temporarily dumbstruck....

 

[SirJosephPorter]

SJP

Again luv the little affection "Quite So"

Regardless - what you speak of did ocurr so your philosphy is based upon punishment of others based upon old history. Rather enlightening for a Liberal orientated person

Face it your belief system is based upon hatred of anything religious - pure and unadulterated biased hatred - no more - no then -

My philosophy is based upon facts, Goober. And facts are just as I stated.

SJP
As we have no laws on abortion there is nothing to throw out.

Now would you dispose of Ursury

Laws that are based upon "Do unto others"

But we did have a law on abortion, the courts threw it out. And precisely because it didn't make sense from secular point of view.

And which laws are based upon 'do unto others'? Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, that sort of thing? We are long past the days of Old Testament justice.

Well you know the old saying about Hope

You can Hope in one hand and Crap in the other - guess which one is filled first.

Besides - the core of your religion is riddled with holes.


Sole as in Fish - The ancient symbolism is hidden in your writings.

There are no holes in my religion, Goober. There is only one Commandment, only one way to achieve salvation. Thou shalt eat an apple a day.

 

[petros]

Apples are what started the whole (sch)peel.

 

[Goober]

Apples are what started the whole (sch)peel.

And it unraveled from there on down and up and down and up until it was bare. Isn't a snake supposed to come into play somewheres????

No - I rufuse to name names -

 

[Machjo]

So I assume this would include the God of Applism. Applism is a religion I came up with (actually I had a revelation from God, that is how I came up with Applism). While it currently has following of only one (moi), I am hoping for world evangelization, same as Christians or Muslims.

According to the Concise Oxford Dictionary, 'God' is defined as:

(in Christianity and other monotheistic religions) the creator and ruler of the universe; the supreme being.

If you believe in a monotheistic supreme being as defined in the dictionary, then the Preamble of the Charter is referring to that same being. And by extension, if that's the case, and Applism teaches this too, then yes it's referring to the god of the Applist Faith too.

Christians do not own the copyright on the word 'God' in the English language.